Why homosexuality is not genetic

I think Thrivals last post really borders on a personal attack. Mods...if you will?

Anyway, I'm sick of trying to explain to people like Thrival what homosexuality is all about.

As far as reading the bible, I guess you can't either. Do I need to go through Leviticus and point out all the moronic "laws" that do not apply today?

Do you eat shellfish? Abomination....
Do you play football? Abomination....touching pigs skin...if you didn't get that one
Want to sell your children into slavery?....it's ok to do according to Leviticus
How do you slaughter your offerings to God? You know there is a specific way to do it and if you get it wrong....God smites you down.
Have you stoned your neighbor yet...you know the one that works on the sabbat
Have you killed your child yet?...you know the one that bad mouthed you.

The list goes on and on.....I'm so sick of you holier than thou Christians (not all Christians)

Thrival
Is there no place for love in your world? I guess us hetero's are the only ones capable of love? by your definition Love is 'unnatural', what purpose does love serve in nature? It serves to bond people, and thus they can provide for and protect each other. Why this can't be done between two men or two women? You refuse to separate sexual promiscuity and homosexuality, homosexuals can be monogamous as well, and hetero's can be promiscuous. You think relationships are just about sex? some Christian.

Gemwolf:

Why would you take dissent to your views as a personal attack? Obviously
you have difficulty sticking to principles, of free speech, rigorous scientific
thinking, literacy, history, psychology, so why not just rewrite common
definitions and understandings to accomodate your deficits? That's quite
common human behaviour of people who can't or won't take responsibility for
them "selves," i.e. people demonstrating poor self-control or self-discipline or
need to justify their behaviour. It's not 'personal' unless the shoe fits. By the
way, "romance" isn't a scientific discipline.

You can't explain what homosexuality is all about because all you know is
your subjective enjoyment of it. I'll bet Charlie Manson feels beleaguered and
missunderstood too.

Re: Leviticus, shell-fish are bottom feeders that concentrate more pollutants,
also very high in zinc that overstimulates the libido. Obviously
the temptation to eat pork was so great, extra emphasis was placed upon
avoiding pigs. (Maybe your diet is a big clue to other aspects of your 'fallen
nature.') Selling kids into slavery? I guess today we call it military school.
Anyway Jesus said he didn't come to take the law away, but to fulfill it. He
forgave sinners WHO REPENTED. Fornicators, adulterers, (i.e. promiscuous),
thieves, murderers, drunkards, liars, and persons who lie with members of
their gender, were all mentioned as "shall not enter" the kingdom of heaven.
I'm not preaching, just telling you what your book says. What peculiar ad hoc
new age sect of christianity do you practice? "Get up, stand up for your life."
i.e. NOT your perversions) I believe is a Bob Marley quote.

'Homosexuality' is a WORD that describes the tendencies of certain people to
fantasize about and actualize sexual experiences between members of their
gender. No, you are not a new species or more progressive form of life.
You are not a race or a creed or special class of people. All you share is a
common perversion. Why should society protect one form of perversion and
not another? People who share a perversion (homosexuals) like to use the
WORD as a distinction when in fact the only thing distinctive is their perverse
behaviour. Otherwise you're just people like the rest of us.

As for Love, that is the binding energy, attractive force or universal glue that
holds everything together, also the concern and support for every person's
highest good. I fail to see where sexual perversion (which is a choice people
act upon) earns a toe-hold in any of it.



P.S. The only concession I would give of homosexuality being genetic would
be in the sense that low I.Q., cognitive deficits or labile character (cretenism)
can be genetic, but the same could be said for any form of criminal
tendencies, the nature vs. nurture arguement. Society hasn't made criminals
a protected class of people. Since homosexuality serves no useful purpose in
nature, it surely couldn't be described as a genetic improvement

[edit on 7-12-2005 by thrival]

Reply deleted due to insultive content. Play nice, folks.

[edit on 8-12-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

Nullified

Originally posted by MacMerdin
Quote deleted !

Hey MacMerdin. Don't worry about it. I chose to ignore Thrival. See I tried every single way to communicate with Thrival. Aggressive. Stern. Compassionate. Factual. Straightforward. Personal. And even light-hearted. Yes, I tried my best to lighten up with my last post towards him, but he chose to see that as "lame quality of thinking". He also pointed out that the use of smilies are gay. Isn't that nice. On all the forums on the whole Internet they put smilies there for homosexual people to use. Well, if that is the case I'm quite surprised to see exactly how many people are gay.

Well the point is Thrival has proven himself time and again to be ignorant and to ignore plain facts. He keeps going in the same little circles with his posts and sticks to his uninformed ideas no matter how many times they are completely nullified by a number of arguments. No matter how much you try to talk to him in a civilized or even uncivilized way, he remains stubborn. He knows he is wrong but gains some sort of satisfaction by belittling homosexual people. He probably gets of by doing it.

Obviously the Mods feel that his hateful and ignorant posts are somehow positively contributing to the forum. Seeing that the only contribution he brought forth so far is to this thread and meaningless posts in two other threads. Maybe the mods would like to remind us that there are hateful, ignorant people out there that need some brotherly love.

MacMerdin, do you recall that many years ago people thought that the world was flat and that the sun revolved around the earth? And this was enforced by the Christian leaders of the church.
And at some stage in history white men believed themselves to be better than blacks and were more than happy to make black people slaves. Their reasoning included that slavery was accepted in Biblical times. There are still people who believe themselves better than blacks. Like the Ku Klux Klan.
I think this is exactly the same situation. A person that didn't evolve with the rest of humanity and society.

Let him be. Thrival reads his Bible. He knows that he will be judged like he judged others. He knows the results of playing God.

Edit: Grammar

[edit on 8-12-2005 by Gemwolf]

[edit on 8-12-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

If homosexuality was not natural, then it wouldnt happen at all, would never see it.

Big gas guzzling cars are not natural
microwaves are not natural
prepacked food...it aint natural
even eating food cooked isn't natural
clothes are not natural
hell living in a house isn't natural.

They're all examples of the ways mankind has learnt to manipulate, reinvent or else recreate the world around him to suit his own needs/wants/impulses just like he did with homosexuality.

I wonder how strictly the thrivals of this world stick to this natural ideal when it starts to inconvenience them. When measured against all of the above homosexuality is small beer, it doesn't cause global warming for a start.

Well if I'm a "dumbass" for not being a pervert, I find it an acceptable
trade-off. Not addressing you personally proves it ain't personal (or an
attack), but principle. On the other hand your perversion IS personal since
you CHOOSE to engage in it (i.e. no one is holding a gun to your head to do
it.)

I've read the bible many times and know what's in there, do you? How could
you claim to be a christian while discounting what your book says? The Bible
and the church aren't the same thing. Sure the church made mistakes, but the
bible is pretty clear about homosexuality. Why not just rewrite it to
accomodate your perverse behaviour? I mean you-all are so good at ignoring
what's clearly stated, blurring distinctions while stressing others that don't
really exist. You suggest you're a 'new and improved' (more evolved) form of
life and yet the bible shows us homosexuality is very old and genetically
speaking, no improvement at all. That's adding self-deception on top of
self-justification. Oh and the whining about people who hate homosexuals?
That's just self-pity on your part, because people won't accept your unnatural
perversion. It's unnatural in PEOPLE because people are more than animals
and our behaviour lets us make informed CHOICES. We are spirits using
bodies so even if homosexuality occasionally outpictures in domesticated
animals is still beneath us, but not those with 'fallen' natures.

Homosexuals like to imply they're more loving for being more 'accepting.' Well
accept AIDS, cancer, tape-worms in your own bodies. They have a right to live
and be there, are very natural and need a home.

Yes you've tried to communicate why your perversion is OK because it
somehow "feels good so how could it be wrong?" i.e. communication without
content, superficial logic that really doesn't meet the standard of objective
reason.

"He knows he is wrong but gains some sort of satisfaction by belittling
homosexual people."

Now that is more nonsense, since I've shown how your own Bible condemns
your perverse, degrading behaviour. It's not even about me. You'll hone in on
any person who shows your principles to be false. You are the ones who
demonstrate veiled hate beneath your words.

As a matter of fact I've devoted more than a few years toward solutions to
global warming. You see, greed is just another human vice as is lust; but
homosexual lust takes vice beyond the pale.

(Still king of the hill on your slippery slope. Enjoy writhing together in your
mud gulleys.)

Actually, I am the dumb arse. Sorry Thrival for going off on you. I had maybe a little too much to drink and took it out on you. You are entitled to your beliefs.

I have contacted a mod to delete the post and am willing to take whatever punishment is set. Again, I apologize everyone.

If it has not been deleted.....could anyother mod please delete. Thank you.

p.s. Thrival.....I am not a Christian so your argument using Christianity and the bible is a little moot in my mind....I know...now I'm going to hell twice. Anyway, take care and I will not be talking with you again.

[edit on 8-12-2005 by MacMerdin]

Originally posted by thrival
I've read the bible many times and know what's in there, do you? How could
you claim to be a christian while discounting what your book says? The Bible
and the church aren't the same thing. Sure the church made mistakes, but the
bible is pretty clear about homosexuality. Why not just rewrite it to
accomodate your perverse behaviour? I mean you-all are so good at ignoring
what's clearly stated, blurring distinctions while stressing others that don't
really exist. You suggest you're a 'new and improved' (more evolved) form of
life and yet the bible shows us homosexuality is very old and genetically
speaking, no improvement at all. That's adding self-deception on top of
self-justification. Oh and the whining about people who hate homosexuals?

Most people hate rapists and consider it immoral.. yet do not consider homosexuality immoral. One is a consentual act between two people who may love eachother.. one is a brutal violation against someone's will. Guess which one the bible supports? You are using the bible to proclaim what is and is not perverted.. sorry but this would mean you consider rapists not to be perverts as the bible does not condemn it.

As for your 'homosexuality has no purpose and is not natural'.. does this mean people with depressive illnesses can just choose not to be depressed? What is the purpose of people being born with eyes that are blind? By your logic they should be able to just 'choose' to see.

Originally posted by ubermunche
Big gas guzzling cars are not natural
microwaves are not natural
prepacked food...it aint natural
even eating food cooked isn't natural
clothes are not natural
hell living in a house isn't natural.

Depends on what you call "natural."

"Natural" has connotations today of being independent from the man-made world, as something else on the Earth besides us. Or pretty much everything else on the Earth besides us, or everything else in the universe, even.

But isn't man a product of nature himself? And similarly a product of the universe, mind and body and all. So in the same sense that a beehive is natural, or a coral reef, or the tools that primates use or trees or lawns of grass, so is man and all that man says, does, creates or thinks. Nature doesn't limit itself to only those things the industrial man hasn't reached out and violated. Everything on Earth is a part of the same common playpen; every shard of glass, drop of oil, bullet and flower is of Nature.

And in regards to homosexuality, as has been brought up here many times, I'm sure, homosexuality and bisexuality are normal in the 'nature' you refer to, ie, the "wilderness." At least among mammals. So in no way is homosexuality not natural. It only violates long-standing religious doctrine, which is often as silly as Hell anyway.

"Most people hate rapists and consider it immoral.. yet do not consider homosexuality immoral."

Uhhh, where do you get your statistics? Most people are hetero and DO think
homosexual is abnormal and immoral or they'd behave like you. Sure rape is
immoral and I'd like to see specifically where the bible makes it a policy of
being OK.

Again you try to use a red herring as a diversion. Fornicators, adulterers,
homosexuals, rape are all violations of virtuous conduct. They demonstrate
lack of self-control and spiritual ignorance. Hey I was young once, and know
what sexual temptation is. Have since learned that's largely caused by a diet
that overstimulates the glands, but also lewdness in culture and behaviour.
Laugh if you like, other cultures (india's vedas, china's taoism) know this and
treat the subject seriously. The chinese culture stress potency, advocate
ginseng, deer antler, etc. Not coincidentally, theirs is the more brutal. If you
want to learn spiritual truth, look outside the box. I don't use the bible as my
only touchstone.

If a few animals (mostly domesticated) engage in homosexual behaviour, of
course you should copy them, right? I mean you're just an animal so why
expect better of yourself or others?

Of course man is a product of nature, but nature (creation) is spiritual art, so
to say God made you homosexual is simply a lie. He gave you hetero
equipment, you just choose to missuse it, maybe even go for a sex change.
In other words, God made a mistake on you and you know better, how to fix
it; (crock of bull.) I wonder how many homosexual engineers you'll find? It's a
more severe discipline than say, hair stylist or flower designer.

"It only violates long-standing religious doctrine, which is often as silly as Hell
anyway."

Only an idiot would say something like that given your ignorance of the
spiritual world. Yes, fire & brimstone burning out two cities or angels striking
people dead for their immoral behavior, is very silly. Keep pushing your luck.
Everyone gets what they deserve, eventually. Don't take time to repent for
granted. The wheels of God grind slow but fine. Today the wheel may be on
the distant horizon, but before your life is over, it will be on top of you.

Depression is about brain chemistry whereas homosexuality is about choices.
You've convinced yourself that members of your gender are sexually
appealing. You can talk to your animus self and convince it of anything
because it can't think, only feel, and depends upon you to tell it what's what;
it needs you to interpret reality so train it like you're supposed to. People
operating from their animus can't give one rational reason why they're
homosexuals, only that it feels good. The low self can be missinformed,
because the middle, rational self has laid down on the job. You can program
your self to be hetero or even nonsexual. You will still be you, just not
entertaining perversions. And I'm not the least bit interested whether you
believe that's worthwhile, possible or not. Every person needs to make
discoveries for themselves. Talk is very cheap.

I just thought I should go ahead and let you know that I'm fine with going to Hell and chilling with Satan for an eternity or so. No problems, man.

I figure if God is such an ass that he sends good people to eternal damnation simply because of what they do or do not believe about him or the old toilet paper that people attribute to him, then he has some ego problems to get over and I say he can go screw himself. So he can send me to Hell for all I care. Good for him, I say. It seems I'm just one more drop in the bucket of "lost souls!"

You have voted bsbray11 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

I know I said I wouldn't be posting again in this thread....but....

Originally posted by thrival
I wonder how many homosexual engineers you'll find?

Here's one....next... I'm treading on thin ice. I work with a lot of architects and engineers (myself being an engineer).....just don't....really. I probably came very close to getting banned but ....ok...nevermind. Are you from the smallest town in trailer park America or what?

Why the hell should you get banned you at least started out trying to be reasonable which is more than can be said for others here.

You know what guys (and girls). It's all a waste of time. It is actually quite amusing how Thrival sticks to his one idea about homosexuality. In every single post he builds the same ridiculous card house and that little house is then blown over by someone who knows better. And Thrival pretends that nothing happened and rebuild the same pathetic house of cards all over again.

Now it is clear to everyone and anyone who has been following this thread exactly who is at the loosing end of the argument. But wonder above wonder Thrival still believes that he is right and everyone else is wrong. I must give it to him. He sticks to his ideas, however misguided they may be. He has made himself quite unpopular, and in his little world he is king of the hill. It may be some mental condition. We'll never know, will we?

I'm not sure where he gets the idea from that homosexuals are less intelligent than he is. There's no such thing as a gay engineer? Bah. Just another brilliant example of how ignorant he is.
May I take myself as an example? I'm 25. I've got two university degrees. I'm currently busy with my Masters in Information Technology - which is actually an engineering field. I am fluent in 4 different languages and I'm busy learning a fifth. And I'm gay. Thrival, remind me again why I'm less intelligent than most heterosexual people? I'm not bragging (or maybe I am). I'm just telling you that this idea - like the rest of your ideas - that homosexuals lack intelligence is absurd.

But you will ignore the facts. You will now once again build your puny house of cards, which will again be ridiculed by others. Which you will build again and again et infinitum. I don't know where you want to go with all of this. Would you be so kind as to enlighten the rest of us. Let me guess. Just playing your part in "The Bigger Plan"...

You will now again try to belittle me, my fellow ATSer friends and homosexuality. Go ahead. If you think it will get you anywhere. I dare you. Go right ahead.

You are so predictable.

Um...homosexuality is not genetic, it is pyschological. enough said. This homosexuality is only an attempt to rationalise and de-stygmatise it.

[edit on 9-12-2005 by XphilesPhan]

Gemwolf, MacMerdin, ubermunche, et al:

Sorry but Information Science is NOT an engineering field. Talk about
inflated egos and card houses, HAH! Sure I suppose an otherwise
form-follows-functionist can rebel against his own body and his Creator.
A gay architect can add all the embellishments he cares to the veneer,
but it's the supporting girders I care about. Gay is just a lame, stupid
choice. Yes you did choose to be gay.

XfilesPhan:

Thank you. Yes it is only psychological and about expanding the perversion.

Information science? And yes it is a form of engineering. But I myself am a STRUCTURAL ENGINEER!!!!!!!!!! Care to refute that I am not an engineer........but I guess my degree that says BACHELOR of SCIENCE in Civil ENGINEERING doesn't count because I'm gay huh? Your coments are pathetic and border on mental illness. Yes, and by the way.....scientists are starting to study the "religeous gene"....meaning that scientists are starting to find out that people who are religeous (fanatically) may have a form of mental disorder......haha....gottcha good on that one...didn't I. But you'll again try and build the house of cards.

As far as choice....yes I chose to get the crap beet out of me on Christmas eve...yeah right. Seems some "Christians" don't even take Christmas eve off when they go out gay bashing. Tell me why ANYONE would chose this life of ridicule, punishment and bashing? IT IS NOT A CHOICE!!!!!!!! Get over your dillusions of grandure......please.

[edit on 9-12-2005 by MacMerdin]