NEWS: Paris Riots Spread To Twenty Suburbs

Every person who tried to justify the actions of the rioters needs to read this interview below, which makes some very interesting points.

lefigaro.fr

If the people who set public services on fire, who throw boule balls at policemen from the top of tower blocks, and who attack fire fighters, had the same colour skin as the rioters in Rostock in reunified Germany in the 1990s, there would be universal moral outrage.

But moral outrage is prevalent in some places.

No, what is prevalent is understanding, a process of marginalizing the sentiment that all this is unjustifiable and replacing it with a search for causes. In the Rostock situation, politicians, journalists, community leaders and sociologists cried with one voice: “Fascism will not pass!” But since these boule ball-throwing, Molotov-launching rioters are French people of African and North African origin, explanation drowns out indignation and turns it against the government and French inhospitability.

Instead of being outraged by the scandal of schools being burnt to the ground, people pontificate about the despair of the arsonists. Instead of actually hearing what they say – “Screw your mother!”, “Screw the Police!”, “Screw the State” – people listen to them, or, in other words, convert their calls to hatred into cries for help, and their vandalising of schools into calls for education. Such fanciful interpretations should be abandoned immediately and replaced with a literal reading of the events.

A reading which rejects the culture of excuse?

The vandals aren’t demanding more schools, more crèches, more gymnasiums and more buses. In fact, they’re burning them down. And this is the way they react to all the institutions, obstacles, barriers and delays between them and the objects of their desire.

I agree with what he was saying.
If the majority of the rioters had been native French, if they had been the ones burning down schools and setting people on fire, there would be near universal outrage against them. I really doubt thay very many people would try and justify their actions.

Please remember to stay on topic. Further straying will lead to this thread being put on PTS/BTS.

I dont understand why they see this as a cry for help, as much as they see it as unexcusable behavior. France allows demonstration, I know they have representatives in the congress/parliament, whichever France has. Why are we not hearing about the older people in those communities trying to reach out to their youth to stop this madness? To me if they are not trying to do something about it, then they are only perpetuating the situation, but of course the French govt cant be held completely innocent of what is happening. But the actions are inexcuseable reguardless.

Latest Update. The French police are now rounding up shooting suspects.




Kind of makes one wonder why it took them so long to start arresting the shooters?



[edit on 11/22/2005 by shots]

So are these riots still going on today or did they stop?

If they did stop is Paris one of the safer places to be now in France? The media Isn't reporting on this anymore so I am going to guess the riots have stoped but I'm really not sure and I can't find a news article about this anywhere today.

Originally posted by SpilledBeans
So are these riots still going on today or did they stop?

I think they basically ended on the 16th of November, when the number of vehicles burned per night went down to a 'normal' level of just under 100.

I heard yesterday, that they were still going...

at this point, with all the french government has done to try to placate the rioters... I say it is time to start the body count...

of course, it would only be fair to offer them all a free ride back to the countries they came from... being as they are largely immigrant.

I understand that they feel that the french government has ignored them... so why don't they leave?
Just chalk it up to the french not being nice to immigrants and foreigners (something we already knew) and leave it at that...

bunch of idiots going around crying because the tiger they bought wasn't a rabbit...
like argueing with fence posts much?

the french have been far to nice about this... and it has allowed a bunch of copycat crimes to be inspired... time is up...

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
I heard yesterday, that they were still going...

Odd I have been watching the media very close for anything current relating to the events and have not seen one mention of it. Do you have a link that can confirm they are still causing problems? Or this this perhaps considered back to normal with just 75 to 90 cars a day being set on fire that they said was normal in media coverage. Any country that considers that many cars a day normal needs help big time if you ask me.

The US has over 295 million and I doubt that many cars are intentionally set on fire here daily compared to France with only approximately 60.5 million yet they consider 75 to 90 cars a day normal.

I realize that here we have had several outbursts in past years with several cars burned by students out of hand and during the riots back in the 70s etc, yet even then I doubt we had hundreds burned in any one day.

Heard it on NPR... it wasn't a feature story, only a commentary that there was more trouble last night, and the french still didn't know what to do.

I think their news feed is from BBC though...

The US has over 295 million and I doubt that many cars are intentionally set on fire here daily compared to France with only approximately 60.5 million yet they consider 75 to 90 cars a day normal.

I have a feeling that you might well be surprised. I know that the Fire Brigades here in the UK have to deal with car burnings quite often across the country. Bored kids, criminals destroying evidence, lighting or even Wombles set cars alight quite often.

I shall see if I can find any facts 'n' figures.....

Originally posted by stumason

I have a feeling that you might well be surprised. I know that the Fire Brigades here in the UK have to deal with car burnings quite often across the country. Bored kids, criminals destroying evidence, lighting or even Wombles set cars alight quite often.

I shall see if I can find any facts 'n' figures.....

I understand where you are coming from and any facts you can furnish would be greatly appreciated. The point I was trying to make though was it does not happen here as compared to France and its situation.

Now in the UK/Britian it might be very well be possible since you have far more immigrants similar to those in France, again that is not the case here. Yes we have Muslims but here (for the most part) then tend to assimilate into our culture which is not the case in France and perhaps the UK, just why I am not sure.

Thanks for reminding me, Shots, I forgot I was supposed to be furnishing some facts 'n' figures.... Damn Wombles keep distracting me....


Now, I am not sure if this is a typo, but a Labour MP is quoted as saying that there were over 3,400 burnt cars in Merseyside in one week!!!! Now, this is Liverpool, so I am not that shocked, but it is still an awful lot. I am going to check the figures some more....

Shaun Woodward MP said:

“I am concerned about the dramatic increase in the numbers of fires started deliberately in the area. I have tabled Parliamentary Questions today on this subject.

"In the meeting with Anthony McGuirk I will be pressing to see what can be done and what resources are needed to tackle this very serious issue.

"This week alone, Merseyside Fire Service figures showed that 56% of all fires that crews attended were started deliberately and there were over 3,400 deliberate car fires. Arson is a serous crime, it wastes the time of fire officers and both directly and indirectly could lead to a needless loss of life.”

Source

[edit on 23/11/05 by stumason]

Here is another link (again from Liverpool...why is it I search for vehicle arson and always get Liverpool???)

Liverpool Vehicle Arson

It claims a total of 1576 counts of deliberate vehicle arson in 2003/4. Thats 30 a week. Not quite as much as France, but thats just one city in the UK.

Originally posted by stumason
Here is another link (again from Liverpool...why is it I search for vehicle arson and always get Liverpool???)

Liverpool Vehicle Arson

It claims a total of 1576 counts of deliberate vehicle arson in 2003/4. Thats 30 a week. Not quite as much as France, but thats just one city in the UK.

Ok and thanks for the info, but allow me to point out many of those fires were set by owners committing insurance fraud, not hoodlums. It is for that reason it would be unfair to compare the two.

When you first said I would be surprised, I thought that you had similar car fires that were set off by Molotov cocktails, that is clearly not the case as the document stated many of the fires are set by owners. I guess what I trying to say is you are comparing apples to organges here and that is wrong, simply because many of those fires were set by owners and not hoodlums as is the case in France.

Originally posted by shots
Ok and thanks for the info, but allow me to point out many of those fires were set by owners committing insurance fraud, not hoodlums. It is for that reason it would be unfair to compare the two.

When you first said I would be surprised, I thought that you had similar car fires that were set off by Molotov cocktails, that is clearly not the case as the document stated many of the fires are set by owners. I guess what I trying to say is you are comparing apples to organges here and that is wrong, simply because many of those fires were set by owners and not hoodlums as is the case in France.

Not trying to start an argument, but it doesn't say that at all. Its exact words are :

There are a number of reasons why vehicle arson occurs. Concealing evidence when a car has been stolen, insurance fraud by owners, young people setting alight abandoned vehicles are some of the reasons vehicles end up burnt out.

Now, this was just Liverpool. 30 burnt cars a week in one city. Now extrapolate that to the rest of the country and you can see that France's 100 a night is nothing special.

Originally posted by stumason

Not trying to start an argument, but it doesn't say that at all. Its exact words are :

There are a number of reasons why vehicle arson occurs. Concealing evidence when a car has been stolen, insurance fraud by owners, young people setting alight abandoned vehicles are some of the reasons vehicles end up burnt out.

Now, this was just Liverpool. 30 burnt cars a week in one city. Now extrapolate that to the rest of the country and you can see that France's 100 a night is nothing special.

No problem. I understand where you are coming from and I think what mislead me was where they stated the youths were burning abandoned cars. I will have to take your word for it, since I know little if anything at all on the subject matter other then what I read in the media.

Just for clarification are you certain the ones burning the cars are of Muslim origin or are they a mix of all cultures? By that I mean are they also British and Irish youths as well as Muslim and other countries that live in Britain.

[edit on 11/24/2005 by shots]

From what I can gather about the figures I found, seeing as they were all from Liverpool (odd that, first page of my google search were all Liverpool ) it will be a mix.

But then, that is an assumption, as the figures don't break it down into why they were burnt, much less who was responsible. But knowing Liverpool, it was probably Scousers doing it....



SCOUSERS

[edit on 24/11/05 by stumason]

The violence has not ended, this time attacks were on the train.

www.washtimes.com...

start quote
"Gang terrorizes train in France"
"PARIS -- A gang of more than 20 youths -- thought to be North African immigrants -- terrorized hundreds of train passengers in a rampage of violence, robbery and sexual assault on New Year's Day, French officials said yesterday.
...
Once inside, they went wild, forcing passengers to hand over mobile phones and wallets, and slashing seats and breaking windows.
A 20-year-old woman cornered by several of the marauders was sexually molested.
"It was a real scene of pillage on the train," said the regional state prosecutor, Dominique Luigi, adding that the passengers were in a state of "panic."
....
The train resumed its journey with the heavy police presence on board but, just before Marseille, the youths pulled the emergency stop and many escaped.
Only three -- two 19-year-old Moroccans and a minor, all living in France -- were arrested. Both men were being held for robbery and one also was facing charges of sexual assault. The minor was to be judged separately. "
end quote

Nice beginning for the french's new year..


Crustas

Originally posted by crustas
Nice beginning for the french's new year..

They also burned over 400 cars on New Year's Eve and set fire to a school and threw rocks at firefigters who came to put out the fires they had set.

They aren't doing crap like this because of poverty or unemployment.

They're doing it because they hve no respect for the law, the country they moved to or the people who live there.

They should deport all of the Moroccans and Algerians from France, even if they were born there.

425 cars torched in New Year's unrest in France

PARIS Rowdy revelers in France torched 425 vehicles overnight in scattered New Year's Eve unrest that has become an annual problem in troubled neighborhoods, the national police chief said Sunday. Last year, 333 cars were burned. Police Chief Michel Gaudin also said there were no major clashes this year between youths and police overnight, as had been feared. In what has become an annual tradition every New Year's Eve, youths set several hundred cars ablaze in France as festivities get out of hand.

Police were especially cautious this time because of the wave three weeks of rioting and car burning that started in late October. A state of emergency imposed during the rioting is still in effect, and 25,000 police were on alert for the holiday.

The burnings have become a barometer of unrest in France. In other incidents, a small fire broke out at a school in Toulouse, in southwest France, and was quickly put out, local authorities said. In Nice on the French Riviera, firefighters were pelted with stones when they responded to an anonymous phone alert, officials said.

[edit on 5-1-2006 by AceOfBase]

That is what my point has been lately, within the good communities of peaceful emigrants from the middle east and other nations.

You always going to find the trouble makers lurking in the background trying to start wars within these nations.

I worry that these trouble markers has been groomed to start this kind of trouble in a world wide scale.

Yes my conspiracy mind is at work here, but can you imagine if in every city main city in the world riots and violence start under the excused of poverty and inequality and it happens to be from middle eastern people.

That alone should raise a red flag because Innocent people will be influence while the forces that starts everything will move on.

It has nothing to do with anti middle east people or racism or tagging is just realities and possibilities.

Perhaps the communities should be warn of these possibilities as not to be led and give away into outside forces that could be using them for other agendas.

That is why I feel that the young people is the one to be more susceptible to manipulation.