NEWS: Paris Riots Spread To Twenty Suburbs

Lost steam? Like it's calming down? What are they saying?

This is still a mess, who are they kidding. It has to stop! They need to stop it. Losing steam is not good enough.

It would appear things are not working out as fast as France would like, now they have extended their emergency powers until Feb.



I realize that this is a very difficult situation for France, but Four months to control only a very small percentage of a countries population is way too long as I see it.

I have said it, others have said it, call out the military DUH!

Oh and let us not forget to ask where are the Parents?

I really don't know what they're trying to prove by setting fire to schools.
They're just reinforcing what Sarkozy had said when he called them scum.

charlotte.com
In scattered attacks overnight Sunday-Monday, vandals in the southern city of Toulouse rammed a car into a primary school before setting the building on fire.

In northern France, arsonists set fire to a sports center in the suburb of Faches-Thumesnil and a school in the town of Halluin, the North regional government said.

A gas canister exploded inside a burning garbage can in the Alpine city of Grenoble, injuring two police officers, the national police said, adding that three other officers were injured elsewhere.

From Sunday to Monday, 115 people were taken into custody, police said. Since the beginning of the unrest, 2,767 people have been arrested.

The ammount of MISinformed people voicing their "oppinion " in this thread is mindboggling, and scary ! Some obviously Islamofobe rasist people here...

mostly people who live in the states, know next to nothign about "France" in general (because of the french "resistance" against a TOTALY unjustified WAR) and people who've been conditioned into thinking that ISLAM= TERRORISM, poeple who have not even been close to a real muslim...

Care if i make my view Of America based on the Abu Greib reports ? NO you wouldn't like that...

If i read some of the posts here it seems that France and the whole of Europe is "UNDER JIHAD" it just prooves that you know next to nothing about the situation and the reasons why this is happening and how we can solve it (not by bombing the hell out of them which seems to be the solution to every American problem).

All you iognorant poeple callign for teh deportation of those rioters: ONCE again i tell you: these rioters are french they have the french nationality, tehy were born and raised there. Only a very small part of the rioters were illegal immigrants.








[edit on 14-11-2005 by XyZeR]

I find it amusing that people are talking about how 'racist and ignorant' americans are with respect to muslims and that americans are 'islamophobes', and yet you don't see massive unrest and city-wide riots of an islamic 'underclass' in the US. You see that in france, germany, brussels, etc.


American society better assimilates and apparently better treats its islamic immigrants than Europe.

Originally posted by XyZeR
ONCE again i tell you: these rioters are french they have the french nationality, tehy were born and raised there. Only a very small part of the rioters were illegal immigrants.
[edit on 14-11-2005 by XyZeR]

I for one have not slammed them because of their religion or origin. What I object to is the fact they are attacking innocent French civilians on bus in cars, schools and various other places. I also am outraged by the lack of control by the French government.

As you pointed out only a small portion are not French however it only takes one or two to start a riot, that is why they should be deported. It is not Frances fault they can not assimliate into the French society they are insisting it is there way or now and that is wrong.

Of course there is no excuse for violence, but when you have projects where there are 40% unemployment because of discrimination based on skin pigment, it's going to be a powder keg. France messed-up in not having affirmative action programs like in the US. While noble to say, "Everyone is French, period. There should be no special programs based on the color of one's skin." The reality is that people won't hire someone if they are brown. Sometimes the government needs to level the playing field. If you don't, you have poverty and desperation that is going to come to a boil someday, like today.

Originally posted by Nygdan
American society better assimilates and apparently better treats its islamic immigrants than Europe.

True but I think there is a caveat to that which is that the US immigration policies restrict the number of persons coming from Arabic and Oriental countries and do so on the basis of what they offer to the country.

Every middle eastern and or oriental person I know here in the US is either a student, doctor, or engineer. We don't get the number of uneducated, ignorant militant extremist that Europe does because our government won't grant them visas. When you come into the US, your personal agenda means nothing. You better be ready to prove you're self-sufficient and have something to offer to society.

Chirac in new pledge to end riots

French President Jacques Chirac has pledged to create opportunities for young people in an effort to prevent any resurgence of urban violence.
In his first major speech since rioting began, Mr Chirac spoke of a "crisis of meaning, a crisis of identity".

He condemned the "poison" of racism, and announced measures for the training of 50,000 youths in 2007.

Mr Chirac said he would uphold law and order by bring rioters to justice and cracking down on illegal immigration.

BBC

Sanc'.

Originally posted by sanctum


He condemned the "poison" of racism, and announced measures for the training of 50,000 youths in 2007

Sanc'.

Training alone will not work. He is going to have to do something to get people to hire them once they are trained and that as I understand it is where the big problem lies. No one wants to hire them.

My thoughts would be they need some laws like those in the US and elsewhere against discrimination. I really should say just the US since I am not positive that other countries have discrimination laws as we do.

Originally posted by XyZeR
All you iognorant poeple callign for teh deportation of those rioters: ONCE again i tell you: these rioters are french they have the french nationality, tehy were born and raised there. Only a very small part of the rioters were illegal immigrants.

I was not actually calling for deportation, but I did make a point of saying they should go back to where they came from on their own. I would also like to say that I requested a few posts back to get feedback from someone there. Are you there? Are you French? Please enlighten us, we do want to know, but if no one will tell us first hand how do you expect us to interpret what's going on. Thanks for checking in.

One final thought. If these are French citizens I think this puts an even worse light on the whole thing. Very sad.

Originally posted by Relentless
Are you French? Please enlighten us, we do want to know, but if no one will tell us first hand how do you expect us to interpret what's going on. Thanks for checking in.

U2 Corsicaman he said the following earlier

Hello !

I'm Vincent, I am french and I am now living in Paris. I would like to post a comment about the riots :

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Maybe he will come back and comment further.


[edit on 11/14/2005 by shots]

On the 19th night of the riots, they are saying the number of vehicles burned is down but it's still over 200.

hindu (AP)

Paris, Nov 15. (AP): The number of car-torchings in France dropped again overnight, with youths setting fire to 215 vehicles, compared to 284 the day before, the Interior Ministry said.

The figures showed a "return to a nearly normal situation" as urban unrest continued for a 19th night, the Ministry said yesterday in a statement that revised a tally released earlier in the day.

They call this a "nearly normal situation"?
I guess they have low standards when it comes to acceptable levels of violence and vandalism in those areas.

Originally posted by AceOfBase
They call this a "nearly normal situation"?
I guess they have low standards when it comes to acceptable levels of violence and vandalism in those areas.

Outstanding they have torched 8810 in the 19 day period which averages out to 463 cars a day

I wonder who is going to pay for those cars?

Also if 200 is considered normal they need help big time. A whole New Goverment comes to mind real fast.

Originally posted by shots

Also if 200 is considered normal they need help big time. A whole New Goverment comes to mind real fast.

In one of the earlier articles, they said that 28,000 vehicles had been burned in the suburbs so far this year, before the riots started.

That's almost a hundred per day.
They really do need help big time.

Maybe a guy like Sarkozy can take the streets back but it'll take time.

I see that Le Pen has croaked up and started an anti-immigration backlash from the French Far-right. Scary thing is, he already had support from a sizeable minority of French voters, so the latest problems could push the moderates further to the right.

The last thing we need is French Nationalists running about the corridors of power...... Yee gawds....

originally posted by XyZeR
The ammount of MISinformed people voicing their "oppinion " in this thread is mindboggling, and scary ! Some obviously Islamofobe rasist people here...

I totally second that, and the similarity of the mis-informed opinions here in this thread points out that the media in those parts is really doing heck of a job, otherwise I would think that there is something wrong with the people here but I guess we can blame the media instead for a more civil aprooach.

Car of a close relative of mine got burned in these events and a friend almost got attacked by the "scum". ( I read a couple of posts here which referred to the rioting youth as Muslim scum, people who are scum, people who are called scum, etc. so I will keep that term so that it will be more comprehensible for you)

the car that got burned,and has been replaced the day after, by the insurance without problem, as Im sure all the other burnt cars also are. even though she had his car burnt down by these "scum" she was lot more civil than the ones here who has no experience or inside knowledge on the events besides what their media filters out to them or beyond their conditioning.

first, the rioting people are not "Muslim rioters", even though it is true that the majority of the rioters practice Islam, This riot is not a Religion driven riot. The rioters include Christian and or Buddhists even. The rioters are not shouting in the streets "Allah-u Akbar" and waving Ak-47s. not to forget also a great number of rioters are black. the drive behind this riot is racial discrimination. and this discrimination covers the people from black or arab descent. the majority of rioters are 2nd to 4rd generation immigrants which means if you would pick a random rioter both himself and his father and his grandfather would be born in France as a French. yet he would carry a non French name or Surname. if you watched the interviews you would recall one of the "scum" saying" if your name is Kerim your job application will be rejected without reason."

the reason for this riot is not the kids that died who were allegedly chased by the police, that was a straw. the conditions in the parts where this "scum" lives is not much different from the conditions of blacks living in USA in sixties in terms of police control. for instance it is not unusual in these parts where one ID control takes for hours and the "scum" frequently gets these ID controls because of their ethnicity. Im sure that the 9/11 also effected the aproach to these "scum"s ethnicity negatively. The funny thing is the French people are themselves accepting that there is racial discrimination in France directed to these "scum". They may not like the immigrants but they are no fools, they can see what has been done and what was not.

You will remember the 3 separate fires(if Im not mistaken there were 3 in Paris) which took place at the buildings where the immigrants resided. I dont think anyone could be naive enough to think these fires were coincidence.

About Nicolas Sarkozy

if you didnt know, he is also an immigrant from Hungary. Ironic yet today he based his election campaign onto the strategy of driving the "scum" (immigrants) out. He was one of the main supporters of the act in the cabinet three years ago which cut the funding for the youth programs, which will be revitalized after this riot by the way. he, under the name of Interior Minister, publicly called a Group of French people "scum" who come from different ethnicity but notheless French and born French who rioted with the reason that they are being threated as garbage and, in the first days of a riot which in fact could be much softer if he did not, yet this action aided him in the process of his election campaign greatly, and as it seems he even gained voters from overseas. its quite ridiculous, a group of a society riot with the reason that they are being threated as scum, and the interior minister calls them "scum" on TV in response to this. plus there is the unbelievable threat he made, he said he will deport the rioters, no matter if they have the national status or not. I mean how can you deport one who is born as a French whose father was born as a French to homeland? later this threat was naturally softened to only include those who is not French by National status. yet with this threat he manifested his mentality.

The riots are the way of the French soft or not, it is how the country got its freedom, how the weekly work hours got lessened to 36 hours, and there are lots of examples. this is how it works in France yet mostly these were peaceful, unfortunately this one was not. even though I also see that there is temperance in the method they picked, burning cars. better than burning houses, or sacking stores, raiding Police HQ, planting bombs, killing civilians. yet there is a case where a 67 year old man was beaten to death, now that is what I call real scum the people who did that were worthless piece of well, in a time of riot, killing an old man just because there are no cops around, now that is messed up. but there is maniacs in every society. yet the way they chose is to burn cars, which only troubles insurance companies mostly. also there are cases where stores are sacked etc. but obviously if 10.000 cars were burned that you can say this was the way they chose to go. I also confirm this from a friend who got almost attacked by the rioters, the rioters are very very angry.

would it be better if it could be a peaceful protest with banners saying" we are not scum, we are people", do you think it would produce the results or gather the attention that is necessary to produce results. I dont know but it would be much more better if it did not come to this and if it was peaceful.

maybe you will be shocked but in some way I admire such events, it be the farmers protesting or immigrant youth as in this case, this shows me that the people have still got the balls to oppose the governments when needed, and are conscious that the governments are there to serve people not the other way around. I hope France doesnt get Americanized in this context.

in the other hand I could write another couple of paragraphs about how great is the aids and rights that France provides to its people and how they care about their citizens, yet as it is obvious from the events it comes to "all people are equal but some are more equal than others", simply the application of some rights and aids fail for the non-whites.

I had other things to add but it got so long, simply France needs to change its immigration policies, Im sure they practice the joys of working force flowing to the country but if this will continue she has to make sure the ones taken in get the proper education and chances. from a tourist point of view it may seem that immigrants are just invading the country yet what people dont realize is they greatly contribute to workforce thus the economy and life standards.

and also it is not the French (past)immigrants the europe should worry about, it is the lowly educated Radical Religious Turks in Germany, I tell you this, they are screwed beyond recognition( talking about the Radical Religious ones there), Germany couldnt fully grasp it in time, they sucked immigrants for the workforce, yet the group that formed up in there is a brainwashing factory, people go there and turn black-scarf in one week. Germany allowed this under religious freedom, but it was a mistake, they are not even that free in TR, that is also why most radicals are migrating there, because it is more "Religiously Free" there. Germany also should make sure the working force and their families get the necessary education and adaptation, for instance the head of the Radical Muslims there, Kaplan is just got deported and delivered to TR this year even though he is declared criminal in TR for both funding shady groups and arranging several assassinations a decade ago.

I can say that these are mostly sourced from the Immigration policies of these countries, and their attitudes towards the immigrants. Arggh I can sleep now.

some links: (not sources, links)

BBC - Have Your Say you can find first hand entries here by French here, You will generally see a big gap between what the people from US say and what French say.

TimesOnline Opinion Article with good info

Some of the rioters were yelling Allah Akhbar xu.
Watch the video:
French-riots

These rioters also burned a lot more than just cars.
They also set fire to schools and pushed a burning car in front of an old folk’s home.

You may think the burning cars are not a big deal because they get replaced by the insurance companies but every person in France who pays insurance will have to pay to replace those cars because of higher insurance premiums.

I'm really surprised at how forgiving you are at the scum who nearly attacked your friends. There should be no sympathy for them. There should only be disdain for people who are attacking others and destroying property.

It seems the French no longer have any sense of what's right and what's wrong. Throwing rocks at infants is wrong. Burning handicapped women is wrong. Burning schools is wrong. Attacking people who have done nothing to you is wrong.

You should stop sympathizing with the criminals and trying to understand the criminals and work to get rid of them instead.

do you know that if they actually do burn down Paris, its just one more Billy Meiers prophecies coming true?

otherwise, bad news for France, im waiting for Germany to pop as well, since they are also in quite an economical mess, unemployment is soaring in western Europe.

There were only 163 vehicles burned in France last night.
They also burned yet another church.

abcnews

National police said 163 vehicles were torched overnight, down from 215 the previous night a continuing downward drop. Most violence was centered in the provinces with only 27 vehicles torched in the Paris region, compared to 60 a night earlier.

A total of 8,973 vehicles have been set afire since the violence erupted. At the height of unrest, youths burned 1,408 vehicles across France in one night, on Nov. 6.

Some 10,600 police remained deployed to counter the violence, which included an arson attack early Wednesday on the Saint-Jean-d'Ars Roman Catholic church in Romans-sur-Isere, in southeast France.

That is a big drop in burned vehicles from previous nights but I wonder how much higher it would have been without the curfews.

[edit on 16-11-2005 by AceOfBase]