Home defense recomendations

Hey, the Walther P22 is a nice 22LR pistol, not for self-defense maybe unless you squeeze off the entire mag into the person.

So, Is the Hi-Point 995 a good one for home defense? definitly doesn't break the bank.

I would not recomend the P-22 for home defense.

It makes a great range pistol, but the .22 round is not going to stop someone determined to hurt you at close range, IMHO.

I have also heard from other shooters at the range who own them that they are terribly inaccurate.

A cheap target pistol yes. Main home defense weapon, no. I think you'd be better off with that medieval mace mentioned earlier.

i would say a glock 19 pistol with a hi-cap magizine would be the best for home defense and would be easier on the misses. even though a shotgun has is merits on penetration and knockdown, in very close quarters or even hand to hand it would be very hard to maneuver a 3ft.+ (moss.500) rifle to get a kill shot. and the pump reload after say a missed shot could mean your demise, while with a semi auto pistol you can lace bullets into the intruder as fast as you can pull the trigger. a small pistol will also be less intimidating to the little lady. I think in your situation 2 cheap guns will fit the bill rather than one all around gun. In the breakdown of society scenario, an AK or SKS with a 30-50 round clip will get alot of work done pretty cheaply and effectivly. bullets for both of these guns are cheap as well so alot of practice can be had for cheap and you can stock up on the AK or SKS ammo for the roving gangs. i got 1000 SKS rounds for 100 bucks.

you made some good points there turbokid, but it really depends on where you live, in a studio apartment you might only have several feet of distance, in a mansion ranges could increase quite a bit.

but a pistol would be potentionally dangerous since it could penetrate soft walls and possibly killing on injuring unintended targets, even a 9mm round could be dangerous, esspecially since they fire over 1000fps which is quite fast, esspecially compared to a .45ACP round which travels around ~850FPS.

I suppose a 9mm Frangible round would be a perfect home-defense solution, but I am not sure if they have sufficient stopping power.

Like someone else stated before, a 12ga shotgun backed-up by a pistol is the best way to go.

My new baby, which I'm going to pick up in 2 weeks.

Link to Rock River Arms

I've been thinking about the issue of a backup weapon, lately. Though unlikely, there is the possibility of shotgun malfunction. Yeah, I know, slim to none, etc. Or, better yet, you could lose the shotgun...yeah, I'm talking to you non-sling people. I know, I've tripped over stuff in the dead of night. Whatever, in the unlikely event of protracted use or loss the shotgun, you don't want to be nekkid.

I have a special fondness for heavier loads. Maybe this stems from having big hands (big hands, big guns, usually means bigger bullet...compact anything is an pain in the ass for me), or a little bit of understanding of the combat psychology. You get the tunnel vision, the auditory exclusion, etc, and as such, you cannot always count on shot placement. As such, I consider the .357 Magnum the standard round for self defence, maybe a particularly hot .40SW. Optimal handgun rounds would be in the .45ACP-10mm range of meatiness. However, as discussed, one does not want their house and its inhabitants rendered as swiss cheese. Glaser rounds for the larger calibers would be optimal, but my paranoia says that not always do they fragment.

Also, there is the question of semi-auto versus revolver. Semi auto presents a lot of potential problems, and more upkeep. Revolvers are rugged, can be kept loaded indefinitely, and deadly accurate. More rounds in a semi and less trigger pull. The issue can be fairly moot, especially since at

Two letters
M4. The ultimate in home defense weaponry. This is one of the best things to have handy when some one tries to invade your home.
You may think, thats an assault rifle how am I going to fire that in my apartment? But the thing is that the stock is collapseable making it just 30 inches and 5.65lbs heavy. Which is perfect for close combat situations. also with the pistol grip option and a muzzle flash suppressor, you can definitely be one up.
I think every american must have one in their home.

Combining lousy wall quality in most american buildings (compared to those used in northern europe no USA-dissing just a fact based on different building customs) and 5.56Nato full auto weapon is a certain recipe for collateral casualities and thats bad, unless you really hate your neighbours.

That is flat out the WORST weapon for home defense - unless your "Home" is a military base or the White House! The M4 is a ranged weapon, meaning it is designed for open combat, not CQB. What you state that is positive about the M4 holds true for any shotgun. I have modified my SG by installing an adjustable stock. With it's 18" barrel and adjustable stock, my SG is less than 32" - probably shorter than your M4. It also features an integrated pistol grip for control.

Unless you are deadly accurate, have concrete walls or an inherent desire to kill multiple things with one round - avoid ranged weapons at all costs for HD. They will over-penetrate. Stick with a 12 or 20 guage SG backed up with a revolver, preferably a .38 for it's reliability.

Originally posted by kozmo
The M4 is a ranged weapon, meaning it is designed for open combat, not CQB.

I beg to differ, I am personally aware of someone who defended his home from an armed drunk with an M4[shot 6 rounds into him through the door] . Also the M4 was specifically designed so that it could be multi purpose both ranged and close quarters. When you say the M4 ppl generally picture the M16 in their heads, which is quite different. The M4 is really very comfortable and flexible to use. You operate it with just one hand if need be and still get good on your shots, also with the greater stability than a hand gun it is always safer to use because you could fire an entire clip in the general direction of your attacker and still miss by considerable margin where as with the M4 every shot is sure and has a better chance of hitting the intruder.

What you state that is positive about the M4 holds true for any shotgun. I have modified my SG by installing an adjustable stock. With it's 18" barrel and adjustable stock, my SG is less than 32" - probably shorter than your M4.

But can your shot gun shoot more than 10 rounds ? Can it give you the kind of control an assault rifle can and can you fire it with just one hand accurately ? You cant unless you use one of those semi-auto shotguns !!
My M4 with the collapsable stock is just 30'', weight just 5 1/2lbs, can fire 30 rounds at a range of 360mt and can fire approx 800 rounds per min. Can your shotgun provide you with that kind of confidence ? Also I can use a high capacity mag in the M4 and get more rounds to use.

Unless you are deadly accurate, have concrete walls or an inherent desire to kill multiple things with one round -

What kind of accuracy would one need at less that 20 yards ? its just point and shoot. also the 5.56 round is not that powerfull that it would penetrate through the walls and kill the neighbours! It would just go through the inside walls and would be stopped by the outer brick walls. If say you had a rifle that shat the 7.62 then i would say that you need to be a little careful but the 5.56 is virtually harmless. It cant even penetrate vests for christs sake!!

The important thing is to be comfortable with the weapon when the time comes to use it and the M4 is one of the easiest and most comfortable all purpose rifles that are around, unless you get your hands on a SCAR or a XM8!! Most home invaders would most likely come prepared to face some opposition from its residents and a mere shotgun with 8-12 rounds isnt much of a deterent, instead if you were to posses a rifle that you could use with ease and have superior lethality that could save the lives of your family and yourself without needlessly putting yourself in any significant danger.
Few auxillary weapons you can also consider are:
Any of the Glock 34 or 35's
Any of the umpteen colt M1911's out there
Any of the dozens of Sig- Sauer's
and the list could go on but if you have some expertise with weapons, I would say look no further than Magnum Corp !!

I somewhat agree with IAF, an M4 is an OK home-defense weapon but the dangers of over-penetration and ESSPECIALLY misses is a problem, the 5.56 round is designed to tumble and lodge it self in the victim to wound IIRC, pistol rounds generally shoot through and through people.

Shotguns provide adequat stopping power, you don't need more than 1 shot of 12ga in #1 shot or 00/000 loads for that matter, it will guaranteed take you down, if there is more attackers, you still have at LEAST 2 more rounds left, a backup pistol is definitly a must.

However, this argument is completely turned around if you use frangible rounds which pretty much disintergrate upon impact of most hard targets, so a M4 or AK could easilly be used.

I personally still advice a shotgun, just cocking it is a deterence enough for most, but in general, I advice an AK for multi-purpose weapon, if it's katrina style anarchy or home-defense (if it's loaded with frangible bullets), it also is a great recreational rifle for informal target practice, hunting or plinking.

AK 7.62x39 bullets usually don't cost alot either (less than 12ga rounds) so I'd say AK FTW!

change of subject, anyone like the Sig Sauer Mosquito? looks like a great little target pistol in .22LR, ofcourse not very great for home-defense lol, unless you want to itch somebody to death (well I guess well placed shots would do someone in but...)

[edit on 6/12/2005 by GrOuNd_ZeRo]

Originally posted by kozmo
That is flat out the WORST weapon for home defense - unless your "Home" is a military base or the White House! The M4 is a ranged weapon, meaning it is designed for open combat, not CQB. What you state that is positive about the M4 holds true for any shotgun. I have modified my SG by installing an adjustable stock. With it's 18" barrel and adjustable stock, my SG is less than 32" - probably shorter than your M4. It also features an integrated pistol grip for control.

Unless you are deadly accurate, have concrete walls or an inherent desire to kill multiple things with one round - avoid ranged weapons at all costs for HD. They will over-penetrate. Stick with a 12 or 20 guage SG backed up with a revolver, preferably a .38 for it's reliability.

How about a USAS 12? you get the best of both worlds. Shotgun CQB capabilities with a large capacity magazine and it even looks slightly like the M4 to boot Only problem is it's classified as a Class III destructive device AFAIK

Here are some pics of the beast!

Can a shotgun deliver more than ten rounds?

Consider this: 00 buckshot is over.300 in diameter, each shell holds 8 or 9 pellets. A Remington 870 with an extended mag tube can hold 5-7 of these shells(plus one chambered). At a minimum, thats realistically 40 single rounds one can send downrange in less than a minute with a pump shotgun.
I own an AR-15 complete with the latest rev. EOTECH, but in a home defense situation, my 870P max will be the first thing I reach for.

[edit on 6-12-2005 by nightbreid]

Also something to note about home construction...drywall, I doubt she would stop a rifle round, even a frangible one. Buckshot, maybe. Birdshot, definitely. But a full inch and a quarter of drywall (I'm being generous here, since a lot of drywall is a half inch thick, 2x walls) will not stop a rifle bullet. I am reasonably assured of this. It cannot stop a fist.

DE

Originally posted by IAF101
Most home invaders would most likely come prepared to face some opposition from its residents and a mere shotgun with 8-12 rounds isnt much of a deterent, instead if you were to posses a rifle that you could use with ease and have superior lethality that could save the lives of your family and yourself without needlessly putting yourself in any significant danger.

If you think that 8rds of 12ga. isn't a deterent then you are on a different planet! Have you ever seen the damage that a single round of #4 12ga. will do to the human body? I have. It's horriable, especially at ranges of

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
I somewhat agree with IAF, an M4 is an OK home-defense weapon but the dangers of over-penetration and ESSPECIALLY misses is a problem,

How can you miss at less than 20 yards ?? And what over penetration ? the outer brick walls would stop it dead. Unless you live in a trailer park I dont think people should have a problem with the M4.
Also a shotgun needs to be cocked every round, if your slow you will die! And most home invaders come in numbers not alone so you have to keep cocking that shotgun and try to get one of them within its spread.
Also you need to carry the monsterous thing around which is quiet heavy compared to the M4.
As for saying that an AK could also be used that is absurd!! The Ak would be so big that you would have great difficulty getting it into position, moreover the AK is simply hopeless in full-auto you cant even hit a car 20 yards in front because the recoil is so much. Plus it weights a ton compared to the M4 .
The AK is simply too big compared to an M4, the main reason I suggested the M4 was because the M4 is designed to be used for CQB as well as ranged and is light in weight.
The most important reason would be because of its ease of use and excellent control that cant be compared to most other assault rifles.
Plus its reliable.

A 12 gauge kicks like a mule, and just about any shotgun at close range will do damage. No need to go overboard. A shotgun is an excellent home defense weapon.

My personal preference is a .22 semi-automatic rifle with hollow points. It's completely legal, you can buy one over the counter for less than $200, ammo is dirt cheap, and a rifle makes a handy club if you run out of bullets. The added bonus is that you can fire a .22 in your home without going deaf.
The little .22 round has enough oomph to tear through organs and smaller bones, but will ricochet off larger bones (like a shoulder blade). So you get a hot mushroom of lead bouncing around tearing up internal organs. My first .22 was a Winchester that held 14 rounds, plus one in the chamber. I bought it for $80. It was astonishingly accurate.

Originally posted by PaddyInf
If you think that 8rds of 12ga. isn't a deterent then you are on a different planet! Have you ever seen the damage that a single round of #4 12ga. will do to the human body? I have. It's horriable, especially at ranges of

Originally posted by IAF101
And what over penetration ? the outer brick walls would stop it dead.

Pssst....your family and/or dog are not protected by said brick walls. Your possesions, neither. Drywall, like I said, cannot stop a decent punch, much less a rifle round.

THAT overpenetration.

DE

Originally posted by DeusEx


Pssst....your family and/or dog are not protected by said brick walls. Your possesions, neither. Drywall, like I said, cannot stop a decent punch, much less a rifle round.

So armed men storm your house trying to kill you and your bothered about the saftey of your TV and stereo etc? I think the first impulse would be to save your family by driving them away. Also in most homes the family almost always sleeps close by, so the chance of killing your own would be less because you know where they are.
AS for dry walls, unless you use BB almost anything would go through them!