Proof that Freemasonry is a Religion

Originally posted by Cattlest
I'm still not sure what the signifigance of Freemasonry being a religion or not is. There seems to be no point in this arguement. If someone could please clarify why this is being debated, it would be appreciated.

The "Freemasonry is a religion" argument stems from religious organizations (predominantly Christian) claiming that Freemasonry is evil (Satanic) because it either fails to recognize Jesus, attempts to replace holy scripture and dogma, or acknowledges other religions (God forbid ). As a member of a non-western religion, I find their fundamentalist frothing amusing, but sad. Freemasonry is the ecumenical arbitrator of all men, a curse upon that house, is a curse upon your own in my view (if you truly believe you are practicing what you preach). It is precisely this narrow minded approach of vilifying Freemasonry in order to maintain a monopoly on the "flock's salvation." Since Freemasonry is not a religion, and the only beliefs within the Lodge are the ones held by each individual member, and those beliefs are sacred and inviolate, at no time does Freemasonry attempt to change or modify them (try and hold on to your beliefs in Mr. Ankerberg's institution).

The argument is one sided, the intolerant wringing their hands (and alternately checking their bottom line), and the Freemasons going about their daily lives, secure in the knowledge that their tenent beliefs have stood the test of time.

Evangelist Monkeys, not just for passing the collection plate anymore…

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
JahBulOn is the god?
Anyone heard of this, by chance?

Try the other thread which is currently running this very topic...

Originally posted by Stegosaur
I guess what I mean is does the "Higher Power" or "Supreme Being" have to be a distinctly separate, individualized entity to qualify as fulfilling this requirement of membership?

In my jurisdiction this wouldn't be an issue, as the interpretation of what constitutes a Supreme Being is left to the candidate.

Secure in what? That they cannot allow their "secrets" out among the "profane", as has been stated?
I am a "fundie" Christian, my little light shines, is in a book that is the longest and biggest seller, and we don't have to have a secret hand shake. We aren't sad, and we aren't worried about ourselves. We also know, however, that 2+2=4 doesn't agree with 2+3=4, or 10+16=4, and as that be the case, religions that are dissimilar are not the same. We also know that Christ, the Son of God, said that the only way to the Father is through the Son. We also know, as the Bible says, the God has no business with Ba'al.
This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine....
And, we are not to have secrets and are distrustful of those who do. Notice a common thread thoughout this conspiracy site? Secrets are what make people suspicious of everything that found on this board.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
And, we are not to have secrets and are distrustful of those who do. Notice a common thread thoughout this conspiracy site? Secrets are what make people suspicious of everything that found on this board.

I would say that in your circles, the comings and goings of the local "no tell motel" would be chief among them.

The only secrets that Freemasonry holds are the modes of recognition, how does that compare to the litany of offenses that has plagued the various Christian sects recently? Adultery, pedophilia, fraud, obstruction of justice, conspiracy... Compared to a subtle variation in a hand grip... I would submit your conspiratorial priorities require a serious reassessment.

Glass House Monkeys, not just for Nerf footballs anymore...


[edit on 17/8/2005 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by Trinityman
In my jurisdiction this wouldn't be an issue, as the interpretation of what constitutes a Supreme Being is left to the candidate.

This is where I see no relevance in this debate. Apparently the participant Mason is not asked to worship any God he doesn't already worship. Therefore I do not see how being a mason can be un-Christianlike or other. Even if it was, I see no reason why one would just cease membership in that case. The 'evil' the church seems to be refering to would be that Masons are controlling there members with subtle influence. If that is so it suggests those who are transformed by Masonry are weak willed. Maybe this particular anti-Mason seems to think if he can change these weak willed people to his own point of view they will find salvation. God's perfect world, void of free-will.

Originally posted by eudaimonia
Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion and its teachings are instruction. For here are inculcated disinterestedness, affection, toleration, devolvedness, patriotism, truth, a generous sympathy with those who suffer and mourn, pity for the fallen, mercy for the erring, relief for those in want, Faith, Hope, Charity

I've gotta say, that that really doesn't sound like Pike is saying "Freemasonry is a Religion". Its a temple of religion, where religion is involved, but its not a specific, restricted, particular religion. Its a temple of all religions, where that which is common (supposedly) is practiced, the 'religion' common to all men, not a secret religion that's held by lots of men all over the world.

The Theology department of a university needn't be a religion, for example. I'm thinking that thats something like what this passage is saying.

As far as these 'researchers' doing good research and even mason's agreeing with what they say,:
Srmason

In fact, Rev. Ankerberg and Dr. Weldon are satisfied to quote both non-Masons (such as "Djwhal Khul")(24) and anti-Masons (such as Jonathan Blanchard) while falsely claiming they are Masons, when they are not. This use of false witnesses and their manipulation of text is so subtle that it is difficult, even for objective readers, to avoid being deceived.

[emph added]
Which is sort of a double whammy, indicating deceit or poor research. Both charges tend to destroy credibility as a whole.

The religion of Freemasonry is not sectarian

I think you bolded the less pertinent portion. A sect is a religion. There's not really any such thing as a non-sectarian religion. If a baptist and an shintoist can both be full masons, then masonry has nothing to do with religion.

to the "Great Architect of the Universe";

And everyone there understands who that architect is. They're not talking about a God that has a slide rule and is leaning over a set of blueprints. the term 'great architect of the universe' is the same as saying 'the creator'. When a christian prays to the "Creator of the Universe", he's praying to the same god all christians pray to, not some other god. The using terms liek "God" (instead of YHWH, or Vishnu) is a secular thing. The US can say 'in god we trust' on its cash and make prayers to God, because God can be jesus, allah, vishnu, jehovah, etc.

What more could be required before an assembly could accurately be referred to as a religion?

When you go to court, you put your hand on a bible, that doesn't mean that the court is a religion itself. When you go to a hospital, there's an inter-faith chapel. That doesn't mean that everyone simultaneously kneeling and praying to god there are the same religion, or that 'interfaith' is a religion. Masonry is a non-sectarian organization, member must beleive in some sort of supreme supernatural deity, because its lessons are ineffectual without a person beleiving in a supernatural after-existence and supreme lord. Masonry doesn't tell people what that god is. It recognizes that there is divinity, and it has discussions about divinity, but that doesn't mean that its a specific religion. A baptist can be a freemason at the same time, whereas you can't be a catholic and a muslim at the same time. Freemasonry is clearly not a religion.

Thomas Crowne
Wh yhide the truth? Out of fear of ridicule? What kind of truth cannot stand up to scrutiny?

Usually these sorts of groups hide most of their 'teachings' because the average joe out there is, basically, a half-wit who can't understand practically anything. Sure, the public can be told about jesus and salvation, and thats a plain thing that doesn't require much to understand. There's no need to 'hide' it from the profane who would make a mockery of the "divine" lessons from the christ passion and gospels because the message is loud and clear (more or less). And by mockery I don't think what is meant is 'making fun of', but rather mockery in the same way that a Black Sabbath of witches is a mockery of the christian mass (urine instead of holy water, cannibalistic consumption of human flesh and blood instead of eucharist and wine, etc etc). Tho thats an intentional mockery rather than an unintentional error committed by the Profane.

And lets face it, the averge joe out there is a bit of a half-wit, and will screw up anything the least bit complex. So organizations like Masonry, or those hermetic socieites and the like, keep their teachings 'secret' and cryptic. Heck, look at the mockeries of them that we see just from the little bit that does get out, with people charging mason's with death cult practices and satan worship, etc etc.

There's also something of a mythic replication/re-enactment in this sort of thing (besides the obvious actual re-enactment of stupendous events). Think of the Grail Knight, who goes on a long and arduous quest, and eventually finds the Grail in the end. Sometimes the grail is right where he started, and laughably easy to find. It wasn't the Grail that made the quest worth it, so to speak, but the trials that the person went thru to get it, those trials changed that person into a better man, tested his mettle, so to speak.

Its like the difference between an army clerk who gets a commission to a higher officer class, compared to an actual enlisted man who manages, thru great trials, to get a field commision, of all things. No one can question his command, because he demonstrated that he earned it.

So these societies aren't just being elitist, they're not saying that the hoi polloi are incapable of making use of their teachings (which, by their own definitions, are completely supplementary to things like Salvation and have nothing to do with it anyway), its that in order to get these teachings you need to go thru these trials, and in their cases the trials are 'heady' lessons and interpretation and skillfull rational thinking about these things, rather than physical endurances. Everyone that starts them is profane, going thru them is the enlightening part that makes one unprofane.

Or some bull# like that.

JahBulOn is the god?
Anyone heard of this, by chance?

Strictly, jabulon is not the god. This term gets back to the whole crypticness and all that. Anyone who is 'profane', like you or me, here's jabulon and starts seeing goat headed demon-gods. Whereas the initiated members have gone thru the lessons, the 'quest' to understand this word 'Jabulon'. And it ends up being an (apparently inaccurate) attempt to 'synthesise' a word to describe god. Sort of like abraxas (otherwise known as 'abbracadabra' amoung magicians). So again we say the profane don't understand Jabulon, and make a mockery out of it (unintentionally) in trying to apply it and understand it.

There's actually a thread on "jabulon" here

Interstingly, the idea that the sacred and unknown name of god, represented as YHWH, which if spoken results in your destruction, might be part of this whole 'the profane shouldn't utter that which they don't understand' idea.

axeman
It points its disciples to the path of righteousness, but it does not claim to be 'the way, the truth, and the life.

I think that that's an excellent sentence that shows the distinction between something like masonry, with its rites and rituals and sacred laws and what not, and actual religion. A self-help book is a not a religion, even if it trys to help by asking that person to appeal to their god.

AA, for example, supposedly makes members pray to god for strength to resist that old demon, alcohol. But it'd be lunacy to think that there is a religion called A A that talks about the eternal struggle between the lord of chaos and destruction, Coors, and the Supreme Abstainer God.

cattlest
If someone could please clarify why this is being debated, it would be appreciated.

The problem is that freemasonry claims to not be a religion. Its could've been a religion, and everything would be fine, but it explicitly claims that its not a religion, and yet has rituals and appeals to god and the like, and this is confusing for a lot of people. There is also a concern amoung some of hte pious that if masonry is infact a religion, that then by being a freemason one is no longer saved or has commited a sin of some sorts, denied christ and replaced him with something else, or denied allah and replaced him with something else.
God's a jealous god, especially amoung the old testament religions like judaism, christianity, and islam, so there tends to be a strong reaction against the perception that there is another religion. As opposed to the other religions, where 'syncretism' tends to hold sway. The greeks and romans saw their own gods wherever they went, for example. Zeus is Jupiter, to them. Whereas the christians and jews wouldn't say 'What you call Zeus is God or Jesus, pray to Zeus if you want, because you are really praying to jesus. Amoung the jews in the ancient world, those other gods were real, but they were devils and demons and evil. So there's also this trend that, if freemasonry is a religion, then its gotta be satanic.

It could've, however, just been a christian group, requiring beleif in christ as saviour for admission (instead of any supreme being), but even then, it needn't be a seperate christian religious sect.

masonic light
[who is your god]
Clapton.

Blasphemer. Ozzy is god. No, wait, Ozzy is the devil and Lemy is God! Clapton is a phsyical incarnation of Rock and Roll!

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Secure in what? That they cannot allow their "secrets" out among the "profane", as has been stated?
I am a "fundie" Christian, my little light shines, is in a book that is the longest and biggest seller, and we don't have to have a secret hand shake. We aren't sad, and we aren't worried about ourselves. We also know, however, that 2+2=4 doesn't agree with 2+3=4, or 10+16=4, and as that be the case, religions that are dissimilar are not the same. We also know that Christ, the Son of God, said that the only way to the Father is through the Son. We also know, as the Bible says, the God has no business with Ba'al.
This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine....
And, we are not to have secrets and are distrustful of those who do. Notice a common thread thoughout this conspiracy site? Secrets are what make people suspicious of everything that found on this board.

Well, aren't we a hypocrite?

from the Holy Bible (New International Version)

Matthew Ch. 7

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
6"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.”

Matthew Ch. 13:

9He who has ears, let him hear."
10The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"

11He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:
"Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: " 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. 15For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.' 16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.”

[...]

34Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable. 35So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet: "I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world."

So even Jesus said that there are things that are to be hidden from those not worthy to recieve them... Interesting, eh?

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine....
And, we are not to have secrets and are distrustful of those who do. Notice a common thread thoughout this conspiracy site? Secrets are what make people suspicious of everything that found on this board.

I don't believe my question to you from a previous thread regarding this secrecy issue was ever addressed. In case it was overlooked, let me reiterate:

"Isn't there a "secret forum" on ATS that you have to spend an obscene amount of points to get into and then pay a monthly fee to remain a member of? Just exactly WHAT is going ON in there? Worshipping goat gods and eating babies out of virgin skulls??? By definition, if it is secret it must be nefarious! I demand to know what goes on behind those closed doors without going through all that "hassle" of getting "initiated" into the group! I will not stand for elitism and secrecy at ATS!"

I dare to compare apples to apples here in the way that the very site you moderate indulges in the very same practice that you are speaking out against. Only members who have contributed a substantial amount of information to the site via posting (through the acquisition of points...AKA positive reinforcement) can earn their way into RATS. Once they are in this "elite" and "exclusive" club, they then have to pay a maintenance fee to remain a member in good standing, that they may continue to contribute to and benefit from this "elite" and "exclusive" club.

Why isn't just anyone let in? Why aren't the projects going on in RATS posted for all to see, all over the internet, if there is nothing to hide? If (according to you) there are "secrets" which are by their very nature "nefarious", and the aim of this site is to expose these "secrets" where they exist, then why on earth do you moderate a site that does the very thing that you hate?

Cognitive dissonance = natural cure for hypocrisy



(For the record, I like ATS the way it is and have no problem with RATS.)


If you, as a Moderator, could explain this apparent discrepancy to me, I would certainly appreciate it.

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Secure in what? That they cannot allow their "secrets" out among the "profane", as has been stated?
I am a "fundie" Christian,

Wow! A fundamentalist Christian from Alabama. Roll Tide!

How in the WORLD did you become a moderator on such a site? Does your Pastor allow it (or did you tell him?) Likely not, as I'm sure the internet (like the Television and God forbid Movie-theatres) are "of the Devil" huh?

[shaking head]

my little light shines, is in a book that is the longest and biggest seller, and we don't have to have a secret hand shake.

Ever heard of the "Essenes?" It's believed by many that Jesus, himself was one (I'm sure you wouldn't believe that, though) Talk about having secrets.

We aren't sad, and we aren't worried about ourselves.

Yippee for you. Keep telling yourself that...sooner or later you'll believe it.

We also know, however, that 2+2=4 doesn't agree with 2+3=4, or 10+16=4, and as that be the case,

Uhm...right! (?)

religions that are dissimilar are not the same.

Exactly! Religions that are dissimilar are not the same. Brilliant TC. uhmmm... Trains that are traveling North are not traveling South! Right?

Were you sleepy when you wrote that because I'm sure a "fundie" wouldn't drink (at least not publicly)

We also know that Christ, the Son of God,

I thought Jesus was the son of God? (Christ being a title and not a name...)

said that the only way to the Father is through the Son. We also know, as the Bible says, the God has no business with Ba'al.

Don't know about all that, but I do know that the Christ DID say "In my Father's house there are MANY dwelling places. (Probably with room enough for some fundamentalist Christians)

Didn't he also say something about his house being called a house of prayer for ALL people? That stands out in my mind because I saw it at a Masonic service recently. One that was held in the National Cathedral in Washington D.C. (which, in case you didn't know, is the Episcopal Cathedral of St. Peter & St. Paul) Yep. A CHRISTIAN CHURCH having a Masonic service in it. Amazing, huh? ...then I read that same passage in the "best seller" you mentioned.

Makes one think, doesn't it?

This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine....

PTL!

And, we are not to have secrets and are distrustful of those who do.

It's been my experience that "fundies" are distrustful of ANYONE who thinks contrary to the way that their Pastor tells them to. (PTL)

Notice a common thread thoughout this conspiracy site?

Yes. The denying to deny ignorance.

Secrets are what make people suspicious of everything that found on this board.

Lies about an organization that they know nothing about is what makes ME suspicious.

...well, that and ANY religion that believes that it's the ONLY right religion.

Oh well. PTL!

Originally posted by senrak
Ever heard of the "Essenes?" It's believed by many that Jesus, himself was one (I'm sure you wouldn't believe that, though) Talk about having secrets.

Bad analogy, especially to a christian. Since I have heard some believe Jesus was constantly rebeling in traditional Essene practices. Though it's all speculation, the Essenes practices are not currently a good bridge to Christian practices.

Originally posted by The Axeman
So even Jesus said that there are things that are to be hidden from those not worthy to recieve them... Interesting, eh?

Brilliant fencing there, Sir.


"You have voted The Axeman for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month."

Originally posted by Cattlest
Bad analogy, especially to a christian. Since I have heard some believe Jesus was constantly rebeling in traditional Essene practices. Though it's all speculation, the Essenes practices are not currently a good bridge to Christian practices.

Sorry you didn't like it. I'll try to do better next time.

"I have heard some believe"

I never said he WAS an Essene. Some believe he was married and had children. Doesn't make it true...but some believe it.

...and I NEVER said the the Essenes were a "bridge to" anything. Where'd you get that?


[edit on 17-8-2005 by senrak]

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
And, we are not to have secrets and are distrustful of those who do. Notice a common thread thoughout this conspiracy site? Secrets are what make people suspicious of everything that found on this board.

Not always the case though.

Before the conversion of the Roman emporer Constantine, the early Church could have been called a secret society.

They met in secret, and used symbols like the fish as a secret means of recognition.

Even in this century under Communism the Church has had to go underground, and worship in secret.

And maybe even today in some Muslim countries the Church is forced to operate in secret in order to keep their heads on their shoulders.

They were, (and may be still), people who had the courage to risk certain death in order to practice their faith.

If anyone is forced to keep secrets because of the intolerance and viciousness others, then who are any of us to judge.

spelling

[edit on 8/17/2005 by tylerdjp]

[edit on 8/17/2005 by tylerdjp]

Wow! A fundamentalist Christian from Alabama. Roll Tide!

How in the WORLD did you become a moderator on such a site? Does your Pastor allow it (or did you tell him?) Likely not, as I'm sure the internet (like the Television and God forbid Movie-theatres) are "of the Devil" huh?

Same way Mirthful Me became a member of ATS Council Staff.

Ellections.

Or was it secret masonic innitiation or hardcore lobbying.

I dunno.

Originally posted by senrak
How in the WORLD did you become a moderator on such a site?

What?


TC is great. Not only did he get made a mod, he got made a Super Moderator because he's super great. What does being a christer have to do with it?
I assume that you aren't infact making a disparaging remark about fundamentalists? Or am I wrong?

Exactly! Religions that are dissimilar are not the same. Brilliant

He's commenting on the syncretic nature of some systems and the non-syncretic nature of the more strict, hard-core christianity. Freemasonry, apparently, is a syncretic system,"That which you call allah, shiva or Jesus is the Great Creator". To a degree anyway. Technically, I think, freemasonry isn't saying that they are all really just other names for the real supreme being, but rather that all sensible men worship a supreme being of one sort or another and that that establishes a common ground, even if that supreme being is a different god.

Also, I should note, that I don't think that the operative freemason's wouldn've been that different from SM TC over here, they'd've been rather fundamental christians who based their rites and lessons and brotherhood on jesus and the Holy Trinity. They didn't distinguish between anglicans and episcopalians, but probably would've shuddered at the thought of mohamedeans in their lodge.

tylerdjp
They were, (and may be still), people who had the courage to risk certain death in order to practice their faith.

Thats not the situation in which freemasonry was created however. The concern was to not throw pearls of wisdom to swine, and not to be mean, but because it'd be wasteful, or worse, perverse.

You implied that since he was Essene he would follow their teachings. Trying to make something pliable to Christianity because of Essene tradition isn't going to work, at least in the world today as I see it. Seems to me you brought up that 'it is believed' he was an Essene to strengthen your arguement that Jesus would be for the Freemasonry behaviour. Though to me it only weakened it. Just thought I'd share that.

Originally posted by Nygdan
What?
TC is great. Not only did he get made a mod, he got made a Super Moderator because he's super great.

Aw, Nygdan, I never said he wasn't. Hell, he's from Alabama he'd HAVE to be great (my family's from Alabama...I went to the Univ. of Alabama) ROLL TIDE!!!!!! (TC, I hope you didn't go to Auburn, btw)

What does being a christer have to do with it?
I assume that you aren't infact making a disparaging remark about fundamentalists? Or am I wrong?

In truth, fundamentalist ANYTHING is a bit dangerous. I'm cautious of them, while admittedly I do find them a bit entertaining. ...I ALMOST married one once, but the thought of . . . oh nevermind.

He's commenting on the syncretic nature of some systems and the non-syncretic nature of the more strict, hard-core christianity. Freemasonry, apparently, is a syncretic system,"That which you call allah, shiva or Jesus is the Great Creator". To a degree anyway. Technically, I think, freemasonry isn't saying that they are all really just other names for the real supreme being, but rather that all sensible men worship a supreme being of one sort or another and that that establishes a common ground, even if that supreme being is a different god.

Exactly right. (Fundamentalist Christians have a problem with this idea...as does the Roman Church...)

Also, I should note, that I don't think that the operative freemason's wouldn've been that different from SM TC over here, they'd've been rather fundamental christians who based their rites and lessons and brotherhood on jesus and the Holy Trinity.

Well...that *could* be true if you buy into the Freemasons originated with the Operative Guilds theory....which I don't totally subscribe to..but anyway.

They didn't distinguish between anglicans and episcopalians,

Actually Episcopalians ARE Anglicans...having come from the Church of England and being a part of the Worldwide Anglican Communion

www.anglicancommunion.org...

but probably would've shuddered at the thought of mohamedeans in their lodge.

True...they likely wouldn't have been "accepted" (as in Free and Accepted Masons)

Anyway...in case you're suspecting it by now...yes...I was yanking ol' TC's chain...just like he's yanking ours.

I find it (and this site) terribly entertaining. Besides, if no one did this, what EVER would we talk about?

(I guess we COULD talk about that conspiracy that allowed Mirthful Me to become one of the Supreme Council members of ATS or whatever he is. I think he paid someone off!

Under the table Monkeys...not just for political bribery anymore...

Nice thread, It seems that it has become some what a hampster wheel, going around and around. Oh well most fundelmentist are kinda like hampsters(small minds)

lost in the midwest

Actually Episcopalians ARE Anglicans...having come from the Church of England and being a part of the Worldwide Anglican Communion

Well, there ya go. Wait, is freemasonry evil now??

but probably would've shuddered at the thought of mohamedeans in their lodge.

True...they likely wouldn't have been "accepted" (as in Free and Accepted Masons)

Anyway...in case you're suspecting it by now
Sometimes those things are difficult to read in this medium, glad to see things are amicable.

(I guess we COULD talk about that conspiracy that allowed Mirthful Me to become one of the Supreme Council members of ATS

Ah its not so bad, but this silly red hats are starting to get itchy. And the poo flinging, oh god the poo flinging!

If there's ever a revolution against the Furry Illuminated One, his head will end up on a stick.
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Revolution monkeys, not just for cheese eating and surrending anymore.