How can the US ever win, when Iraqi children die like this?

There's the wreckage of a car bomb that killed seven Americans on the corner of a neighbouring street. Close by stands the shuttered shop of a phone supplier who put pictures of Saddam on a donkey on his mobiles. He was shot three days ago, along with two other men who had committed the same sin. In the al-Jamia neighbourhood, a US Humvee was purring up the road so we gingerly backed off and took a side street. In this part of Baghdad, you avoid both the insurgents and the Americans - if you are lucky.

Yassin al-Sammerai was not. On 14 July, the second grade schoolboy had gone to spend the night with two college friends and - this being a city without electricity in the hottest month of the year - they decided to spend the night sleeping in the front garden. Let his broken 65 year-old father Selim take up the story, for he's the one who still cannot believe his son is dead - or what the Americans told him afterwards.

"It was three-thirty in the morning and they were all asleep, Yassin and his friends Fahed and Walid Khaled. There was an American patrol outside and then suddenly, a Bradley armoured vehicle burst through the gate and wall and drove over Yassin. You know how heavy these things are. He died instantly. But the Americans didn't know what they'd done. He was lying crushed under the vehicle for 17 minutes. Um Khaled, his friends' mother, kept shouting in Arabic: "There is a boy under this vehicle!"

According to Selim al-Sammerai, the Americans' first reaction was to put handcuffs on the two other boys. But a Lebanese Arabic interpreter working for the Americans arrived to explain that it was all a mistake. "We don't have anything against you," she said. The Americans produced a laminated paper in English and Arabic entitled "Iraqi Claims Pocket Card" which tells them how to claim compensation.

The unit whose Bradley drove over Yassin is listed as "256 BCT A/156 AR, Mortars". Under "Type of Incident", an American had written: "Raid destroyed gate and doors." No one told the family there had been a raid. And nowhere - but nowhere - on the form does it suggest that the "raid" destroyed the life of the football-loving Yassin al-Sammerai.

"The Americans came back with an officer two days later," Selim al-Sammerai continues. "They offered us compensation. I refused. I lost my son, I told the officer. 'I don't want the money - I don't think the money will bring back my son.' That's what I told the American." There is a long silence in the room. But Selim, who is still crying, insists on speaking again.

"I told the American officer: 'You have killed the innocent and such things will lead the people to destroy you and the people will make a revolution against you. You said you had come to liberate us from the previous regime. But you are destroying our walls and doors.'"

Source:
Independant Online by Robert Frisk in Baghdad

Indeed - how can the US Ever Win this War, when the majority of the People that die each and everyday in Iraq are Innocent Civilans - most of the time Children.

How do you Expect the Iraq Father to Forget such an "Accident"?

Would You, as a Father, Forget it?

[edit on 14/8/05 by Souljah]

Souljah, you have sunk to a new low. This was a tragic accident, how were the americans supposed to understand a women shouting in arabic? wasnt someone there who could speak english like the father who apparently can speak english well enough in this interview? I know money and 'compensation' are little comfort, but this sounds purely of an accident to me, nothing sadistic or intentional.

nothing intentional no, but this iraq war is not going to be won with errant raiding tactics like this. I seem to remember Bush saying that the U.S. and its allies will win this war by "capturing the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people"
That does not seem to be the case, however. I recently saw a short 42 min video from Germany, (please let me know if anyone here has seen it also) it was about a group of german journalists following American soldiers and their "peace keeping" duties. The Americans took over someones apartment and used it as a sniping post to shoot ANYONE that had an AK-47, or similar arms. They also rammed a house with a group of elderly people in it, destroying their gate, and arresting the men who they suspected as recent bombers. They were shouting "we are old men, what did we do, what did we do? The journalists asked about the damage done to the house and how it would be fixed and the Americans said "we do nothing" These families were pissed, and this gives them more fueled anger against the occupying forces, which is BAD new, I mean it is common sense. The Journalists also asked a soldier what he thought about America's foreign policy, and he said "I would change a lot of things, this is all just about oil, from what I have seen" Now, I'm going to be fair here, and say that there is also a lot of stories about the soldiers, treating the Iraqis well, and looking after children, etc,but it is the cases of sheer ignorance of these people's supposed civil rights that is fueling the Iraqis to join the insurgency. If the soldiers take away these civil rights,then the Iraqis have nothing to live for anyway, and wouldn't care if they get killed by an American raid on their home, or an American shot to the head during an insurgent battle.

'hearts and minds' reminds me of vietnam. we all know how that turned out. anyway, id like to know if this war is all about 'oil' why the hell are we paying $2.50 a gallon for gasoline? I mean where is all that captured oil? We sure as hell arent seeing any of it.

Innocent people die in wars. It is a cost of war. It is a terrible thing and no money can bring back anyone's child, not an american solider who is the son/daughter of someone nor an iraqi child. The said truth is that even if we never went into Iraq and left Saddam in power, the Iraqi people would continue to suffer under their own gov't and innocents would die by their own armies. This is a no win situation for everyone. Iraq like several middle eastern countries have citizens that suffer daily at the hands of their gov't. I think we should pull out of Iraq and just leave them to themselves and good luck with the groups of Iraqi's that will and have been battleing among themselves long before the US showed up.

If you want to lay blame, lay it on the gov'ts of the world, including the middle eastern gov'ts for the deaths of all innocent people including troops. The US troops are no more to blame then the innocent Iraqi citizens, they are pawns caught up in a deadly game played by their gov'ts.

Well put annie . I just wish soljah would realise the same.

OH! So this is That kind of thread! :shk:
Well here is the part I dont get:

Originally posted by Souljah

On 14 July, the second grade schoolboy had gone to spend the night with two college friends.

So a Second-grader spends his time with his "college" friends ? A second-grader must be about 8 while the "college friends" are about 18+, can they be friends?
I dont think so.
Also why would a father let his 8 yr old kid sleep outside? As you say bagdad is dangerous with Insurgents and military so what would happen if some terrorist exploded a car bomb ouside the house? Would that be blamed on the Coalition troops?
Dont get me wrong, I think what happened is very sad but it was understandalbe. The marines dont know Arabic and the Iraqis dont know english, had the marines known they would have definitely taken the kid to a hospital ASAP no doubt. But it was a mistake.
In such a volatile situation like in Iraq where their are terrorists lurking in every alley so random raids are necessary, thats why they call them raids because they are sudden, if they informed people then it would be called a "search" .
I think he can launch a formal complaint against the division and maybe prosecute but thats upto the boys father.
Also how does this death which is clearly accidental have anything to do wiht the war in Iraq and fighting insurgents? In a situation like iraq things like this will happen, which is sad but true.

[edit on 14-8-2005 by IAF101]

good catch IAF, i certaintly missed that Im sure he only had a couple of beers Good catch man.

[edit on 14-8-2005 by XphilesPhan]

Mmm....Soul, you are better than this thread. You know better than this. You know, I am 100% opposite nearly every opinion you have ever made, but at least I could give you credit for attempting to create intelligent arguments, but this post ruins that.

This is a pathetic point you tried to make and is not worth the bandwidth. I am sorry to have clicked the link...


EDIT:

You know what? I’m not going to let you off the hook so easily:

How many 100's of kids of your precious freedom fighting PURPOSULLY killed in whatever cause they think they are fighting for? And you never, ever, ever make posts about them. But this poor child died in this tragic accident at the hands of Americans and now you post?

Souljah, you have crossed the line from reality into absurdity. As far as I am concerned, you have discredited yourself to the point of being irrelevant. I never thought I would do this, as arguing with you was fun sometimes, but I happily choose to ignore you. You can go on to post your hate filled irrelevant agenda and rhetoric without my interference from now on. You are now a placebo.


[edit on 14-8-2005 by skippytjc]

Innocent iraqi child, future insurgent/terrorist, its all the same realy. oh well...

Does anyone else find it a sickening concept that if a family member is killed, an officer turns up to the house with an "Iraqi Claims Pocket Card"?

Originally posted by C0le
Innocent iraqi child, future insurgent/terrorist, its all the same realy. oh well...

No its not.

Isnt this the way the terrorists think?

This is what you get when you allow racists and bigots to roam freely over ATS. And nothing is done about it.

Originally posted by cargo
This is what you get when you allow racists and bigots to roam freely over ATS. And nothing is done about it.

Which Bigot should I do something about.

The Anti-Muslim Bigot or the Anti-American Bigot?

If you got a complaint use the complaint feature otherwise stick to the topic

How about bigots in general? This very issue is what drives topics like this and, as it would seem, new member registration here anyway. So I guess it is on topic.

wow nice find Solj'R

And don't sweat the people making cheap shot at y'a ......at least y'r bringing these storey forward....not bringing up "INSULTS" like some on this site.

Y'r Canadian friend,
Sven

Love t'a see how the INSULT'RRRRs on this site would like it if someone bashed thru' there gate and ran over there children.

Souljah-

Using your logic... how can you expect the insurgents/terrorists to win, when they're blowing up innocent men, women and children everyday?

An accident is an accident. Obviously our troops didn't drive into the place simply to run over a young child. But what about the insurgents and terrorists who DO target women and children? Can a parent ever forget that their child was blown up by a suicide bomber walking to school?

Only an America-hater like yourself would even start a thread such as this. You're treating it as though President Bush's motorcade purposely drove into a park and ran over a boy, then backed up over him again and again and again until he was a pancake. It was an ACCIDENT! And it's accidents such as these that the terrorists, insurgents and SOULJAH's use in their propaganda effort against the United States. Shame on you! Shame on you for using the ACCIDENTAL death of a young boy to further your anti-American agenda! You should be ashamed of yourself!

The same is true with Clinton's UN sanctions, killed many children. How was the US ever to have Iraq follow weapons contracts by killing off tens of thousands of civilians while Saddam remained in power? This time Bush got rid of the problem, "the solution was not to kill off tens of thousands of civilians Mr. Clinton, while you start an illegal war in Serbia."

I think Democrats can learn a real lesson from Bush: Do not start illegal wars while you senselessly kill off 100k civilians to punish one man who you have no brass to get rid of.

I will just add this from the original Article:

Inside Yassin's father's home yesterday, Selim shakes with anger and then weeps softly, wiping his eyes. "He is surely in heaven," one of his surviving seven sons replies. And the old man looks at me and says: "He liked swimming too."

I suddenly realise that Selim al-Sammerai has straightened up on his seat and his voice is rising in strength. "Do you know what the American said to me? He said, 'This is fate.' I looked at him and I said, 'I am very faithful in the fate of God - but not in the fate of which you speak.'"

This is Fate?

In the heat, we slunk out of al-Jamia yesterday, the place of insurgents and Americans and grief and revenge. "When the car bomb blew up over there," my driver says, "the US Humvees went on burning for three hours and the bodies were still there. The Americans took three hours to reach them. All the people gathered round and watched." And I look at the carbonised car that still lies on the road and realise it has now become a little icon of resistance. How, I ask myself again, can the Americans ever win?

I wish the American President would see this Pictures and read this Stories, that I have shared with you all. Those who don't like them and want to Ignore them with petty insults upon me, who have just delivered the message - shame on you. THIS Story is also Iraq Today - Iraq that the United States created. The most Dangerous City in the World. And you won't hear this kind of news on CNN.




[edit on 14/8/05 by Souljah]

Look at my avatar. I think that explains the situation very well.