How can the US ever win, when Iraqi children die like this?

Major error in the "story". In july, part of the hottest stretch in the year, the people sleep on the roofs of their homes, as the ground (even in the "garden") has absorbed far too much heat from the day. Air temps are still in the 110-120+ degrees F until 0100-0200, ground temps are still 110-130 degrees F. Also, the sand flies, scorpions, and myriad of other nasty critters come out at night to hunt for food.

Nobody sleeps on the ground OR the floors of their homes during the summer.

Curious, no names of US officers or soldiers......or "college age men"...despite two encounters with US forces. Mayhaps, the soldiers were looking for these two "college age men" when they allegedly broke through the gate?

I could be totally wrong about this, but every thing i have ever read that Robert Fisk has wrote, seems to be anti US. He always covers the stories about the struggle of the Iraqi's. Fair play, we need to know about this too, but how about having two sides to the stories?

Americans reported killing innocent children always hits the headlines, but the insurgents (call them what you want) seem to get away with less media coverage.

What about the Iraqi's killing their own children for taking gifts off westerners? We don't hear Fisk commenting on that. OK, maybe he hasn't heard of anything like that, but i have, and have living testimony to it too.

All i am saying here is there are two sides to every story.......

Considering that this War in Iraq was brought by the Western Coalition, it is More then Likely that this kind of News won't be shown on Western Newstation - or better said, the tight Propaganda Valve of the Army won't allow this stories to be published. Now I know some Journalists get more anti-war and anti-american then the others - but don't we have MORE pro-american and pro-war propaganda at work all the time anyway? I am surprised that reports about this kind of events even come through to You and Me. But Most of the time we see how the Insurgents and suicide bombers - the terrorists - are blowing up and shooting the innocent civilans. But we don't see the "Other side of the War" - the side that this report showed to us. Who really knows what happened: bad info, an accident, maybe it was on purpose - does it really matter to the Father, the Mother and the Brother of this Young Boy? And to many, many others that have Died in similar circumstances? How many "Accidents" and "Friendly Fires" have we seen in this Bloody Conflict? Let me tell you how many:

TOO MANY!

Who really knows what happened: bad info, an accident, maybe it was on purpose - does it really matter to the Father, the Mother and the Brother of this Young Boy? And to many, many others that have Died in similar circumstances? How many "Accidents" and "Friendly Fires" have we seen in this Bloody Conflict? Let me tell you how many:

TOO MANY!

Souljah- This just further illustrates the mentality that you and the other victims of terrorist propaganda display. How can you, under any circumstances, even suggest that American forces would purposely run over a child sleeping in the street? What purpose would this serve? Do they have a time machine, through which it was revealed that this innocent child is the future leader of the insurgency? Give me a break. American soldiers are normal (yet extremely brave) people- the same people you run into on the sidewalk or call your friends. Do you really think any of them would accept and complete the order to run over and murder a child? You're one sick person for even suggesting it.

Out of all your rediculous posts to date, I think this one has officially crossed the line. It's one thing to hate America and our government and our troops, such as you do. But it's an entirely different thing for you to be so blinded by and consumed by that hatred that you would make the assertion that our brave men and women in uniform purposely target children sleeping in the streets and run them over with tanks. Your statement is sick, sad, pathetic and extremely immature. Sometimes I wish you weren't protected by the anonymity of a computer and the thousands of miles of sea and land that separates me from your third world nation. Then I could truly show you the rediculousness of your posts. Coward.

Rasputin13 get a life, all you and your radical friends do is talk nonsense all day and attack everyone you disagree with. You have some serious issues you need to work out. You should look back and see when you became such an angry little man, you might learn something about yourself.

Call me unamerican, call me liberal, ****ing call me whatever you want. But it IS NOT RIGHT to exploit the 9/11 tragidy (especially if it was an inside job) and IT IS NOT RIGHT to exploit a horrific war to gain profits in corperation!!! So I say this IS NOT the kind of country I support and this is NOT the kind of system I want to live in!

Originally posted by PsychevolvedApe
Call me unamerican, call me liberal, ****ing call me whatever you want. But it IS NOT RIGHT to exploit the 9/11 tragidy (especially if it was an inside job) and IT IS NOT RIGHT to exploit a horrific war to gain profits in corperation!!! So I say this IS NOT the kind of country I support and this is NOT the kind of system I want to live in!

You have concrete proof that 9/11 was an inside job? Excellent!!! Now, why don't you post it on this site, because I am sure that Nobody has ever said something like this that was proven false. Hey, why don't you tell us which agency it was too (was it the CIA? Maybe they got some aliens to dress up like arab terrorists).

Seriously, who told you that? Have you actually looked over the evidence yourself and come to your own conclusions? Did you at least look into the sources the person who told you this cited? He did cite sources, right?

PBscientist...

You do not know me... You do not know my research... You have no idea what I have gone through... You do not know the pain I feel everyday KNOWING what is happening... So please have an ear... So you may hear as well as speak... Bless you for your loving feelings to your country.

[edit on 16-8-2005 by PsychevolvedApe]

Listen, if you actually have concrete information, I would love to hear it. It just really pisses me off when people are like "Noes...teh uber playaz pwned us noobzors1!!111" (sorry, really bad at leet speak). If you have something say it. If you just want to spout rhetoric, shut the hell up (from either side, I don't care how much liberals are like judas, and I really couldn't care less if conservatives are warmongering bastards).

I have my information, but it is long and citeful... however everything I have is summed up in a good friend of mine's film. it is an extremely informative and frightfully true documentary. I suggest you check it out, for I do not have time to list MY PERSONAL research...

Part I

Part II

Part III

I hope you're watching PBscientist...

So far I have seen about 10 minutes, but I am already laughing. Right now he is making it sound like Fuji is trying to help the government create a fascist state.

He seems to be using a lot of techniques to confuse people and engender fear. I have seen a lot of shots of police officers with m4's and police snipers on the roofs (ironically, a good friend of mine does that). Lots of things where he zooms in to guns (even the normal sidearms police officers carry). Now he is interviewing people off the street (he could easily be interviewing a large number of people and only taking those statements that follow his thesis).

Now he says it was the banks that created communism... Looks like he struck a gold mine with stupid communists (literally, they probably toked up too much in the 60's. Actually a lot of people from the 60's that I know are kind of like this. Same thing with stormfront and those redneck hicks). Now they have some young communists... It seems like he puts liberals in a triumphant light (lots of them cheering), while he has the republicans giving schwarzenegger speeches (thick german voice... he is trying to imply that the gov is fascist...). For the republicans at the protest, he got a guy with a shaved head who likes like a biker.

Now 25 minutes into it... at 26 minutes 40 seconds he says something like al CIAda. Now he is saying Micheal Moore is being paid by the US gov... Now he is saying Bin Laden is a CIA agent... Hasn't given any evidence yet, just a bunch of rhetoric... Now he is saying the white house called gov officials and told them not to fly right before 9/11. Haven't seen any evidence yet... Just said "quote "warning"", heh, that is a really hard word to quote Now he is referring to the micheal moore thing where he said the bin ladens were flown out (they weren't. I actually checked that a long time ago. Gonna try and find it again).

32 minutes into it. Saying the white house told people to stay away from OSB. Still hasn't given any evidence for these things. He is showing web sites that have things that say "CIA met bin Laden", but he isn't showing enough to identify the sites, just titles and a little text. At 34 minutes he says moore is doing bush a favor. Funny, these people can't even stand together...Throwing around words like world government and police state. So far hasn't backed up anything substantial.

Now he is showing pics of Abu Ghraib and acting like that is happening in New York to US citizens... Apparently it is in a condemned building on the pier. Seems that he is trying to use a lot of words like concentration camp and Abu Ghraib to elicit an emotional response. Just called the police "militarized police". Now he is saying that he is a patriot and that he is hated because of it.

LOL!!! Now he is saying that a person who is taking pictures of him is harassing him. He says the police are turning into the military.

Well. that ends that part of the video. I might watch the rest later, but I haven't been impressed so far. Thanks for the links though.

Originally posted by PsychevolvedApe
I suggest you check it out, for I do not have time to list MY PERSONAL research...

Geez mate I was really expecting something better than links to Alex Jones videos. Expecially when you're using words like "You do not know my research... You have no idea what I have gone through... "

Originally posted by PBscientist
So far I have seen about 10 minutes, but I am already laughing. Right now he is making it sound like Fuji is trying to help the government create a fascist state.

He seems to be using a lot of techniques to confuse people and engender fear. I have seen a lot of shots of police officers with m4's and police snipers on the roofs (ironically, a good friend of mine does that). Lots of things where he zooms in to guns (even the normal sidearms police officers carry). Now he is interviewing people off the street (he could easily be interviewing a large number of people and only taking those statements that follow his thesis).

Now he says it was the banks that created communism... Looks like he struck a gold mine with stupid communists (literally, they probably toked up too much in the 60's. Actually a lot of people from the 60's that I know are kind of like this. Same thing with stormfront and those redneck hicks). Now they have some young communists... It seems like he puts liberals in a triumphant light (lots of them cheering), while he has the republicans giving schwarzenegger speeches (thick german voice... he is trying to imply that the gov is fascist...). For the republicans at the protest, he got a guy with a shaved head who likes like a biker.

Now 25 minutes into it... at 26 minutes 40 seconds he says something like al CIAda. Now he is saying Micheal Moore is being paid by the US gov... Now he is saying Bin Laden is a CIA agent... Hasn't given any evidence yet, just a bunch of rhetoric... Now he is saying the white house called gov officials and told them not to fly right before 9/11. Haven't seen any evidence yet... Just said "quote "warning"", heh, that is a really hard word to quote

Now he is referring to the micheal moore thing where he said the bin ladens were flown out (they weren't. I actually checked that a long time ago. Gonna try and find it again).

32 minutes into it. Saying the white house told people to stay away from OSB. Still hasn't given any evidence for these things. He is showing web sites that have things that say "CIA met bin Laden", but he isn't showing enough to identify the sites, just titles and a little text. At 34 minutes he says moore is doing bush a favor. Funny, these people can't even stand together...Throwing around words like world government and police state. So far hasn't backed up anything substantial.

Now he is showing pics of Abu Ghraib and acting like that is happening in New York to US citizens... Apparently it is in a condemned building on the pier. Seems that he is trying to use a lot of words like concentration camp and Abu Ghraib to elicit an emotional response. Just called the police "militarized police". Now he is saying that he is a patriot and that he is hated because of it.

LOL!!! Now he is saying that a person who is taking pictures of him is harassing him. He says the police are turning into the military.

Well. that ends that part of the video. I might watch the rest later, but I haven't been impressed so far. Thanks for the links though.

PLEASE WATCH, HE GETS INTO THE HARDCORE FACTS AT THE END OF PART 1 AND THROUGH 2 AND 3... THE FACTS ARE UNDENIABLE...

Editted...no need to flame.

[edit on 17-8-2005 by alien]

Originally posted by PsychevolvedApe
PLEASE WATCH, HE GETS INTO THE HARDCORE FACTS AT THE END OF PART 1 AND THROUGH 2 AND 3... THE FACTS ARE UNDENIABLE...

Hmm... You used all caps, so it must be true.

Don't worry, I have to go somewhere right now, but I will watch it later.

I mean why do people come to a conspiracy site and then spend hours debunking the possibility?

Makes no sense, does it?

Because we can't be skeptics if we don't have something to be skeptical about.

Didn't manage to get all the way through though second part of the video (my computer just happens to be hooked up in a way that it can be turned off by the light switch. Well, someone tried to turn on a light in the middle of it and...) but I got maybe 2/3 of the way through. It seemed he spent a lot of time talking about how the firefighters took down building seven when it wasn't one of the ones hit by the airplane, and he even said that the twin towers were hit by the planes. Also, he talked about how the fire shouldn't have taken down the towers, but there have been some threads about that on ATS, and they have usually concluded that the jet fuel could have heated the metal up enough to cause it to weaken.

Anyway, about tower seven. He showed that an official of some type actually said on tv that it was demolished, and then went on to show that it indeed had been demolished (ie. the way it buckled was consistant with controlled demolition). I am not entirely certain, but it may have been the case that the firefighters placed explosives in such a fashion that the weakened structure would implode more safely than if it fell freely. I know that demolitions normally takes several months to complete, but I would hazard a guess that it is to make sure that they are 110% sure the building will fall the way they want, and the firefighters simply did not have the time to do that, but it fell well anyway.

Originally posted by Rasputin13
Out of all your rediculous posts to date, I think this one has officially crossed the line. It's one thing to hate America and our government and our troops, such as you do. But it's an entirely different thing for you to be so blinded by and consumed by that hatred that you would make the assertion that our brave men and women in uniform purposely target children sleeping in the streets and run them over with tanks. Your statement is sick, sad, pathetic and extremely immature. Sometimes I wish you weren't protected by the anonymity of a computer and the thousands of miles of sea and land that separates me from your third world nation. Then I could truly show you the rediculousness of your posts. Coward.

Rasputin13,

Of all your Redicilous Answers, this is probably the most Insulting and the most threatning one. You don't know what happened there on the street of Baghdad, and why this kid lost his life, when being run over by a Bradley Infrantry Fighting Vehicle. I don't know either. So, how can you Claim that it was an accident, if you don't have a clue? Only those soldiers know and people that were standing on the streets at that minute.

And how would you show me the "rediculousness of my posts", if there were not thousand miles between us?

And BELIVE ME, we are a very developed country, far, far away from any Third World Countires, with wich you are insulting me, and my fellow countryman. I suggest you READ something about Slovenia when talking about it. We have a Rich culture, that goes back to the Roman Empire, in 6th century our GrandFathers established a very big Independant State Karantania. Slovenia is a high-income economy which enjoys the highest GDP per capita (US$21,567 in 2005) of the newly joined EU countries.

That shows your extreme Knowledge of Foreign countries and their citizens.

[edit on 17/8/05 by Souljah]

Originally posted by garyo1954
I mean why do people come to a conspiracy site and then spend hours debunking the possibility?

Here is the conspiracy that I think happened: [NOTE: Graphic !! ]
--The "college men" were actually young terrorist sympathizers. This being Iraq they pass their time whit AK47's and gun running to help the terrorists/insurgents. The Coalition intelligence comes to know of this and they track these " college men". While these guys unaware of the coalition forces tracking them decide to spend the night just as they always do. They befriend this little kid and impress him by making him a "friend". Now these guys wanting a safe place to spend the night go the kids place and decide to camp out there. The kid wanting to be part of the "action" with his "friends", what the kid does not know is that these men are going to do.
These "college men" then in connivance with the father agree to sodomize the boy, as it is a custom in the Arab world.[Their are ritualistic ceremonies in which are raped by male family members in the Arab customs, especially in certain tribes. ]The boy unconscious/drowsy after his horrible ordeal is laid to rest in the front of the house[ Most of these ceremonies/rituals are very public so it makes sense. ] Unknown to these "college men" the Coalition forces outside are getting ready for a raid.[ Bradley fighting vehicles don’t just pop into peoples houses on routine raids, this one is a planned one. Mostly on routine raids soldiers in Humvee's are sent to conduct raids] In an instant the Bradley plows through the wall and crushes the unconscious/drowsy kid killing him instantly, the "college men" stunned make a run for it but are caught, handcuffed and taken away. After the men are taken away the family of the boy is shouting and screaming at the soldiers in Arabic, the soldiers confused hand them a compensation card thinking that they are mad because the Bradley destroyed a wall. Some how a translator is at hand and explains the situation. The soldiers try to pacify the parents and ask the father to file a complaint in the coalition HQ. The commanding officer shows up and we all know the rest.--
This is what I think happened. Conspiracy and all!
About the sodomizing, that is a popular custom in the Arab world, especially where terrorism is part of the culture.
Here is an article where I learnt about this bizarre custom:

According to Minnesota based psychoanalyst and Arabist, Dr. Nancy Kobrin, it is a culture in which shame and honor play decisive roles and in which the debasement of women is paramount. In an utterly fascinating and as-yet unpublished book, which I will be introducing, the Sheik's New Clothes: the Psychoanalytic Roots of Islamic Suicide Terrorism, Kobrin, and her Israeli co-author, counter-terrorism expert Yoram Schweitzer, describe barbarous family and clan dynamics in which children, both boys and girls, are routinely orally and anally raped by male relatives; infant males are sometimes sadistically over-stimulated by being masturbated; boys between the ages of 7-12 are publicly and traumatically circumcised; many girls are clitoridectomized; and women are seen as the source of all shame and dishonor and treated accordingly: very, very badly.

Source:FrontPage Magazine
So the way I see it the boy was probably saved from further brutality and abuse which could have made him a potential suicide bomber.

The author of this thread has still not clarified soem VERY important question raised by me and a couple of others like-what is a second graded doing spending his nights with college men? Why would they sleep on the ground outside the house when it is hot ,as the ground is hotter that it would be inside his house ?
Since these questions have not been answered it is possibel that my morbid version is pretty close to the truth that what is being presented here. The story altered and used as propaganda to malign the Coalition by propagandists who have fallen victim to a sympathy and misery exhibition by the fundamentalists to brainwash gullible westerners into agents of their propaganda!

As this is a conspiracy site, i think we should not ignore such a posssibility which may very well have happened as the author of this thread himself says:

You don't know what happened there on the street of Baghdad, and why this kid lost his life, when being run over by a Bradley Infrantry Fighting Vehicle. I don't know either...Only those soldiers know and people that were standing on the streets at that minute.

I apologise if people find this post disturbing but such a possibility cannot be ignored!