To all of you piraters, what would you do?

Sheesh, i am sorry, Trey!

I knew i was on the right lines, not seen the episode in some time.

Most consistently funny show ever... you betcha!!

Originally posted by Off_The_Street

Translation: I am a thief.

The music was not 'stolen from' anyone except the producers; certainly not from the parasites who attempt to justify this theft!

Someone called on his experiences and emotions, combined those with his talent, and put together words and music to create something unique and new. This new thing came from the writer. There is no 'working class' involvement.

LOL as a musician I know exactly how the recording industry works. And it's not all about the "talent".
There's are thousands of people involved form the producer to the stock boy at the record store.
It's the people who work, who do the physical labour of producing the "product" that are being stolen from by the music industry.
#ty wages, blah blah blah...

The day musicians became concerned more with making money than making music is the day "rock-n-roll" died IMHO.

Music is about art not profits...

The music industry rips off the musicians every way it can.
It's got to be one of the most corrupt industries there is, I know, I've been there and chose to have nothing to do with it.
They hook the musicians with fame and attention, so they don't notice that all their sweat, passion, experience, emotions, talent is being stolen for a quick buck.

Down-loaders are not the thieves, the music industry is!

In the words of Johnny Rotten, "The music industry is dying, let's kick it to #in death"...

Wyrde one, I know that trick!

That's an old trick!

You want me to respond and use up all my ammunition so I won't have anything left for the grudge match.

You young pup, you gotta get up earlier in the morning to catch an old man like me on that!

I won't lie, I don't have all the answers.
But I can tell u I would not start visiouly attacking my customers and potential customers.
Why don't they try selling music for a reasonable price.

pirates are just mere competition to the industry snatching dollars away from artists. Does anyone weep for the adult industry when I scam a free porn online? I guess Im just a sex crazed drunken pirate born a couple of hundred years too late. We'll never change....prey for our souls.

If I'm too poor to purchase music (yes believe it or not for some people, $20-40 is ALOT of money), so I download it instead, does that make me a theif? How would I be stealing from the music industry if there was absolutely no possibility I was going to buy a song/album in the first place? It's a case of either download mp3's, turn on the radio, or don't listen to music at all.

In a scenario such as that, how am I possibly hurting the music industry? I'm not downloading something I normally would have bought, I'm not sharing the music with someone else and I'm not selling my music to other people. I know quite alot of people that fall into the above scenario. And before anyone gets smart, it isn't a cop-out, it's the honest truth.

Taking it further, this sort of behaviour helps the computer industry. The person needs 1) A computer 2) An internet connection. Then inevitably they will get a bigger hard drive to fit more songs, or a cd burner, or an mp3 player. Possibly a better printer so they can make 'pretty' labels for their burnt cd's or better speakers. So there's a coupla $k/year more for the computer industry.

Looking at the profit margins for the music industry, the invention of mp3's has hardly made a dent in their sales (which is confusing really considering the quality of music has gone down but sales on occasion have actually gone up).

If an artist plays it smart, they will market their product online to peak interest in them, thus resulting in cd sales, and also offer the option of purchasing single songs off their website...I for one know if I hadn't downloaded a few songs from the Wild FM series or Gatecrasher, I wouldn't have gone out and over time scrimped together the cash to buy every one of their cd's like I did. The same applies to pretty much every CD I own...not that I play them. I rip them to mp3 and listen to that so I don't have to worry about damaging the CD.

The industry brought it on themselves - before they released the Tape recorder there wasn't any really effective way for consumers to copy music from a Record - unless you had the master and a press.

I download music all the time, usually because I cannot find the music in the shops in my area and I'll be buggered if I shop online with my Credit Card.

I download mainly because I do not trust the record companies at all. An album these days doesn't have 10 good tracks - just one or two that stand out and the rest to fill space on the CD.

I'll download albums first to see if its any good - then if iots decnt I will buy it.

If you think about it shouldn't it be the people who produced the ability to DL and burn songs who are to blame?

And who did that?

The Music Industry...

Another case of "bate and snatch" Just like it being illegal to smoke pot but legal to sell and buy products to smoke it in.
It's legal to own a comp, to own a burner, to own and use CD-R's etc...(optimised for music by Sony).

Yet the end user, you and me, get the stick as usual for using their products. I mean what did they expect when they first introduced cassette tapes or CDR's?
That people would only use them to record music they already owned on another format?

The music/entertainment industry/sony/etc... produce these products and then stir up trouble for people who use them.

I can understand the uploading (illegal distribution) being a problem.
But how does it become the problem of the end user? Who only DL the song for their own use (not distributing).

If they want people to pay for their # they need to start giving something that's actually worth the price you pay.

DL music and software is not about theft, it's about econimics...

www.pcmag.com...

Sony is one of the biggest companies in the music/entertainment industry, as I'm sure you all know. Sony had one of the first licenses for cassette tapes, that were first produced by their subsidiary company Phillips Electronics. Sony introduced the CD-R in 1990.
A few fingers in many pots, stirring up the market any way they can to maximise profits. Worshipping the beast brings instant gratification, but slowly erodes away our sense of right and wrong. Thus we pave the way for the one who resides bellow.

"Sony leading the way in DVD Burners"...The funny thing is in their own blurb they tell you how many songs you can store on their double layered DVDr's.
What songs? Do they really think people are gonna BUY songs to burn to their DVDR's?

No, they know exactly what people will do with them, they're making money both ways, so they don't care.
All this noise about DL songs is just hype to sell other products (burners, blank media) to kids who feel rebellious DL songs for free.

We're being manipulated to boost corporate profits in a slowing World economy, and a music industry that is dieing and being kicked to #in death as it does.

news.sel.sony.com...

The Sony Corporation:

www.usatoday.com...

oak.cats.ohiou.edu...

Why do you think music is so #ty nowadays? Because the musicians with any sence won't have anything to do with the music industry.
That's why we get burned out herroin adicts and dropouts getting the big contracts. They are easier to manipulate to do what the company wants them to. Most musicians nowadays know better...

**Disclaimer**
If none of this makes sense I'm sorry, but it's 2:40 am and I'm baked...

[edit on 13/8/2005 by ANOK]

uh guys, about every single argumant you've got is nullified by itunes, I keep hearing "they make 1 song and crap up 9 more to fill up an album" WELL, #ING DOWNLOAD IT ON ITUNES FOR 1$ IF YOUR TOO CHEAP FOR 20$, Also, how does if your not going to pay for it in the first place make it not stealing, lets say i buy a candy bar and never eat it, does that entitle me too a free one, no

how does if your not going to pay for it in the first place make it not stealing, lets say i buy a candy bar and never eat it, does that entitle me too a free one, no

Wow...

And the award for the crappiest analogy ever goes to..YOU!

I don't even understand what you're trying to say here.

That's a good point......What about all of us...errrr I mean all of you who get free porn from the net????? Nooone ever feels sorry or tries to defend Ron Jeremy or Asia.....

I also agree with ANOK.....Music should not be ALL about the bucks. What would Hendrix and Van Zant say about this??? They would probably give a loud verbal FU to all the Metallicas out there. There are some things that surpass the laws in the books.....and the love of music is one of them.

If I were a bigtime musician like Nelly, Metallica or whoever else...I would be honored for people to listen to my music. There are some kids who cant afford to buy the latest CD.....why not let them enjoy your music.

BTW: Metallica SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!

What makes Metallica even more hypocritical, is their history. They developed such a huge fan base because of a practice called tape swapping, where fans would make mixes and concert recordings, and swap them at shows.

Metallica wouldn't be 1/10th as popular as they are (were?) if not for that predecessor to internet piracy, tape swapping.

Talk about biting the hand that feeds...

If you piss off and alienate your fans, you lose all the way around. Sueing the bejesus out of 15 year old kids might be construed as alienating...

Have to agree with Off_The_Street ... Lots of folks here going way out of their way to justify taking things that don't belong to them.

I guess morals and ethics are readily and quickly adjustable to suit the situation ... Kind of makes them not morals and not ethics anymore.

When one can bend his/her morals and ethics to suit the moment and the situation, I kind of have to wonder what value to place on anything else they might have to say or think.

I know... I'm nobody ... I understand that, but the world is made up of a whole bunch of nobodies. And I suspect that, eventually, what you give out comes back to get you.

I will be more than happy to grab the popcorn and sody (that I paid for and didn't purloin), and sit and watch the discussion continue.

First of all, rigid principles are not always preferable to flexible ones, depending on the circumstances, sometimes it's necessary to adapt.

Secondly, my principles state information should be free. The internet changed the world for the better, and now the entertainment industry is frantically trying to put the genie back in the bottle, or the sins back in Pandora's box, whichever you prefer.

Finally, you can't compare a can of soda to a song represented by 0's and 1's. If you download a song, the artist has not lost the ability to sell that song. If you take a soda from a merchant, he can no longer sell that soda. The two situations are not comparable.

Oh really??? Flexible grandtheft whatever? I like it. All I have to do is decide how I want to look at what it is I want? If I can make an item like an electronically created item (a song) seem somehow less than a can of soda, then it becomes ok to take it.

Principles? Hmmm ....

Now, bear in mind, I am not trying to castigate you. I don't care where your ethics, morals, and principles are, or how flexible you make them. It is your life. It's just that in some eyes, I suspect, you become a little less than what you could be when you can change or invalidate a previously held moral, ethic, or principle to make things better for you. Who trusts you, and do they really?

And... Bottom line ... It is illegal. Seems like it would be better time and money spent trying to get the law changed than being an outlaw... The days of Robin Hood are well over.

But, please ... Don't take any of this personally, unless you already have, and htat is what made you come out and post in response to my generalizations.

We can justify anything if we look at it long and hard enough. Were you aware that the human eye can detect over 500 shades of gray? Somehow I have a sneaky suspicion that has something to do with the trouble we often find ourselves in.

Here is a situation I encountered that justified my theivery. I wanted an album and couldn't find it. It was called, "Of love and hope" and was from the old tv show Beauty and the Beast. It had been out of print for years and there simply were no copies to be had. One day I found a copy on ebay. For a used CD they were asking 75 dollars. I said screw that.

I started looking online and one day found the complete album in a small club for fans of the show. I D/L'd the album, burned it to CD and have been making copies for anyone who wants one since. If they don't have a cd burner i'll make them a copy and mail it to them.

I love that CD. Stealing it made my life richer and brought me many, many happy moments as I listen to it.

Is it stealing if its no longer for sale?

Ah well, thats my piracy tale. Makes me feel like a piker compared to some of the rest of ya

Wupy

THEY brought it upon themselves when they broke the copyright deal. The deal was, they would get exlusive right to copy the work for a LIMITED amount of time and then it would revert to the public domain. Once they started BUYING copyright extensions to the point where it became clear that the work would never revert to the public domain copyright became null and void in my mind at least.

Metallica wouldn't be 1/10th as popular as they are (were?) if not for that predecessor to internet piracy, tape swapping.

Talk about biting the hand that feeds...

That says it all......

refer to WyrdeOne's post...about 4 or 5 post up.

Metallica and other "old school" bands, hell even new rappers out there were made like that. That's how the word gets around......well I guess as soon as the word gets around they start being sll PC 'n #e.:shk:

[edit on 15/8/2005 by SportyMB]

When cd's first came out they were ment to be unscrathable. This got boring when they realised people wudnt have to by new copys to replace the old. Nowdays no matter how much i look after my cd's,dvd's eventually they always jump skip & it just gets boring.

I always have cd wipes & drive cleaners on standby for when the things mess up.

Downloading a song/movie/game is fine so long as you dont sell it on to others for your own profit. If i d/l a bands music & like it enough i will genrally go out & buy it & it really isnt hard for a band to set up there own webby & sell there songs off it thats the way forward surley?

Now movies if a noob director goes & realease his movie in the USA four months befor he does in the UK & its a movie i really want to see then im sorry he is saying to me download this movie fella. Same with tv shows id almost finished 24 season 4 befor it was even realeased in the UK from d/l off the net & at the weekend it came out on dvd boxset & i went out & brought it. Same with the new season of famially guy & southpark these are all shows i love & just cant wait for some #tard in an office to decided if he should release on sky or BBC.

Lost is another good program that was just realeased last week. People at work are going mad talking bout it. This bloke who was harping its praise in paticular asked if id seen it. When i tell told him i seen the whole first season already he thourght i was talking BS "Its a new show never befor shown on TV blah blah your aint see it your lieing!".......so i told thoose people in the group who doubted me everything big that happens over the whole season & they think i was joking but they will figure out after a couple of weeks that they know the whole seasons plot haha harsh but fair i think.

To the people comparing it to stealing cars & stuff i ask you this. How many car thiefs you know go out steal a Ferrari F430 or anyother car for that matter then go out and buy the car they stole because they liked the way it handled on the chase? people steal cars for the rush.....if you get a rush form d/l music id say you need professional help more than the car thief.

You can sugar coat this issue any way you like but it IS[b/] stealing.

The technology is there today to make you use a paid for copy (think public key encryption) but there is no standard. Yes the MP3 thing is out there but if all the hardware folks gang up with the MPAA and RIAA you could be in for a rude awakening some day.... Would it get cracked - likely but think of DirecTV and how the latest gen of hardware works. No pay no watch....

People here - you do realize that for every major star act there are about a hundred that never break even for the label. That is what the stealing really hurts and why the cost structure is so high....

Now, artists can embrace giving it away to get the name out and hope to recoup in live shows and the like or they can stick to their guns and protect their copyrights. Tough call for any musician....