Rove Learned About Plame From Journalists

How could it be true, who had the clearance to know? Rove or regular citizens.. Only an idiot would believe this story.

Still doesn't matter....

If anyone in this administration was involved in it, they would no longer be in this administration.

It's a fact he was involved....end of story.

In order for the administration to stand by their previous statement, Rove must go. But, I suspect we'll see just how well this administration keeps their word... After all, it was based on lies from the get-go, so why change gears now?

This has nothing to do with "sides". It's the simple matter of if the administration will do what it said it would do. I fear it will not. And worse....that nobody will call them on it....

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Valerie Plame's CIA status was revealed as a rationale to discredit Wilson, to make him and the facts he presented as lightweight. In short a smear campaign, where Wilson was eventually found to factually correct. They once again were so busy trying to get happy talk produced they ran over the facts about yellow cake not being acquired by Iraq.

As Usual the Whitehouse was so busy spinning politically that they casually revealled a CIA name, which is absolutely why they are too irresponsible to be entrusted with the entire US intelligence control which has happened under the Homeland security consolidation.

Further Rove has previously leaked information to Novak when working for Bush Sr,
So it is rather easy to believe that is [one of] the originating leaks to Novak.

WTF is he tossing it around like nothing?
These people have no respect for the truth, and facts and the institutions with which they are entrusted.
All they do is lie.

Is there any question this administration is so ideological they can not be trusted?

edit:
The only thing sacred to these people is their spin.

[edit on 15-7-2005 by slank]

amazes me!!

No comment was ever made due to the entire situation being under investigation by the special proscuter.

Now that there are numerous reports stating that:

1. Valerie Plume was working a desk job at the CIA at the time this came about.
2. Her husand has admitted that it was already publicly known that she worked for the CIA.
3. Valerie Plump was finished working any uncover operations for quite some time.
4. That reporters informed/mentioned to Rove about Valerie Plume about her being a CIA operative.

Of course as soon as the media (CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS) reports on something supporting the administration, it's a CONSPIRACY by the Bush administration!

Of course when these media outlets report on negative stories about the administration, they are now telling the TRUTH.

Someone mentioned it earlier.....you naysayers sound like a bunch of 3 yr old..........COOTIES!!!!

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People in positions of trust are expected to be more responsible in their actions, not less.

Again the Whitehouse comes up short.
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
Clifford May from The National Review now says that in fact it was Joe Wilson through David Corn of the liberal rag The Nation who really leaked the confidential information concerning Plame:

www.nationalreview.com...

Dj: you've displayed some interesting personality traits via the several threads you've responded to on this issue.....they all lead back to denial boardering on willful character flaw.

Last things first, the National Review is a "partisan rag", furthering the scribble space of fired Bush speech writer David Frum, the usual suspects and former fired Times Writer - current GOP apologist - Still serving as RNC Communications Director ( Goebbels) - Cliff May. To see the man, is to want to beat that man - a little pompeous & self righteous prick, who during his time as Chief RNC Double speaker, perfected the all to nasueating GOP propaganda of LOUDLY staying 'on message' every time he got face time.

You contrast this to two of my faves, Corn & the Nation?
The thing with you loquacious NeoCons is that you understand that you can spout bulls**t as long as you do it with conviction & until you are called on it.

The Nation - founded in 1865, is still one of the stellar political mags. They had ripped the most sizeable chunks out of Bill Clinton's hide because they have a progressive tilt & thus, the most legitimacy. The National Review, on the other hand, is now & always will be staffed by syncophants.
David Corn is a journalist, a damn good one. Here's the REALITY to your above lie:

Two years ago, after reading a Bob Novak column, I called former Ambassador Joseph Wilson and asked, half-jokingly, "Why didn't you tell me your wife was in the CIA?" In a somber voice, Wilson said, "I can't tell you that now." When I first read that Novak column outing Valerie Wilson (a k a Valerie Plame) as a CIA officer and citing "two senior administration officials," I didn't immediately comprehend the leak's seriousness. But as I spoke with Wilson, I could see the potential harm. And I realized the leak was no accident. At the time, the White House and its allies were mounting a fierce campaign against Wilson, who had revealed in a New York Times op-ed that on a 2002 CIA-sponsored trip to Niger he had gathered information undermining one of George W. Bush's justifications for the Iraq War: that Iraq had been shopping for uranium in Africa. And as we discussed the Novak leak--that is, talked around it--it occurred to me that the leakers might have violated an obscure law that prohibits government officials (not journalists) from knowingly disclosing the identity of an intelligence officer. I mentioned this to Wilson; he was unfamiliar with the law. I said I might write about the leak and this law. He didn't encourage me. He was hoping that somehow this story might blow over and was not eager to draw more attention to it. He was in partial (though understandable) denial. Two days later I posted a piece that first raised the question of whether this leak was evidence that White House officials had committed a crime.

www.thenation.com...


[edit on 15-7-2005 by Bout Time]

Originally posted by Kidfinger
Actually, the real problem is being swept under the rug with all the symantics and rhetoric going on about the Rove debacle. The fact is, Bush said he would fire the person responsible for leaking the info. Rove is still employed so it appears that Bush has succeded in lying to the American public and got away with it agian.




[edit on 7/15/05 by Kidfinger]

Rove wasn't the leak, he just told Robert Novak that he had "heard that also". Again, Rove was not the leak.

Originally posted by GrndLkNatv
How could it be true, who had the clearance to know? Rove or regular citizens.. Only an idiot would believe this story.

You don't need "clearnce" to know this information, Plame appered in magazines with her husband! People in DC have been buzzing about it for weeks and weeks, Rove did not leak anything!!

sou rce

WASHINGTON - After mentioning a CIA operative to a reporter, Bush confidant Karl Rove alerted the president's No. 2 security adviser about the interview and said he tried to steer the journalist away from allegations the operative's husband was making about faulty Iraq intelligence.

The July 11, 2003, e-mail between Rove and then-Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley is the first showing an intelligence official knew Rove had talked to Matthew Cooper just days before the Time magazine reporter divulged CIA officer Valerie Plame's secret identity.

"I didn't take the bait," Rove wrote in an e-mail obtained by The Associated Press, recounting how Cooper tried to question him about whether President Bush had been hurt by the new allegations.

The White House turned the e-mail over to prosecutors, and Rove testified to a grand jury about it last year.

Earlier in the week before the e-mail, Plame's husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, had written a newspaper opinion piece accusing the Bush administration of twisting prewar intelligence, including a "highly doubtful" report that Iraq bought nuclear materials from Niger.

"Matt Cooper called to give me a heads-up that he's got a welfare reform story coming," Rove wrote in the e-mail to Hadley.

"When he finished his brief heads-up he immediately launched into Niger. Isn't this damaging? Hasn't the president been hurt? I didn't take the bait, but I said if I were him I wouldn't get Time far out in front on this."

The AP reported Thursday that Rove acknowledged to the grand jury that he talked about Plame with both Cooper and Novak before they published their stories but that he originally learned about the operative's identity from the news media, not government sources.

Republicans cheered the latest revelations Friday, saying they showed Rove wasn't trying to hurt Plame but instead was trying to informally warn reporters to be cautious about some of Wilson's claims.

"What it says is, Karl Rove wasn't the leaker, he was actually the recipient of the information not the provider," Republican National Committee chairman Ken Mehlman said on Fox News. "So there are probably a lot of folks in Washington who have prejudged this, who have rushed to judgment who are trying to smear Karl Rove."

Democrats, however, said that even if Rove wasn't the leaker, someone still divulged Plame's identity and possibly violated the law.

it looks like the Democrats will have to try somthing else to get at Rove cause this didnt work, not to mention tryin to hurt Bush as well. in anicase nice try.

Originally posted by djohnsto77

Actually if anyone committed treason, it was Joseph Wilson who went to Niger and didn't do due dilligence in checking out the claims and submitted a false report back to the United States government, thereby giving aid and comfort to the Saddam Hussein regime.

[edit on 7/15/2005 by djohnsto77]

Could you expound on this? What report are you talking about? Wilson reported that claims of Iraq's attempt to purchase yellowcake from Niger were false, and it is generally accepted now that this was the case. The documents suggesting otherwise, which Wilson was sent to Niger to investigate, were themselves fabricated by dubious intelligence sources recruited by the OSP (namely, the one codenamed "curveball"). I know of no other evidence suggesting that Wilson did his job in Niger, and did it well.

Source: Yellowcake Forgery, article at Wikipedia

-koji K.

[edit on 15-7-2005 by koji_K]

I can't help but wonder why Novak (in his interview of July 21, 2003) clearly stated that he got the information from "two senior administration officials" if he was the one to actually provide it.

Novak, in an interview, said his sources had come to him with the information. "I didn't dig it out, it was given to me," he said. "They thought it was significant, they gave me the name and I used it."

Source

So, one of them is lying... I'd place my bets on the turd blossom.

Does anyone know what Novak is saying about all this?

The Rove story is about as "Big" as the fake Downing Street Memo.

Jeesh it is now being reported that all of Plame's neighbors knew she worked for the CIA.

Bush, Delay, Rove...who is next on the Democrat Hitlist?

After the "fake Bush National Guard documents" the "fake Downing Street Memo" and now the "fake "undercover" CIA agent." You would figure that the Democrats have learned their lesson, but no...they will attack someone else in the very near future, most likely Bush's Supreme Court nominee. I wonder what fake document they will produce on that person?

Originally posted by Carseller4
The Rove story is about as "Big" as the fake Downing Street Memo.

Jeesh it is now being reported that all of Plame's neighbors knew she worked for the CIA.

Bush, Delay, Rove...who is next on the Democrat Hitlist?

After the "fake Bush National Guard documents" the "fake Downing Street Memo" and now the "fake "undercover" CIA agent." You would figure that the Democrats have learned their lesson, but no...they will attack someone else in the very near future, most likely Bush's Supreme Court nominee. I wonder what fake document they will produce on that person?

Eh? The Downing Street memo wasn't fake... and Valerie Plame was an undercover CIA agent, regardless of what she may have told her neighbors. There's a difference between what you tell the Joneses next door and what's available in the public domain for any Nigerien to find.

-koji K.

And there's a difference between 'working for the CIA' and being an undercover operative for the CIA. Of course people knew she worked at the CIA in the WMD division. She was also an agent. That's the secret part.

This wreaks of a conspiracy more every day.

Originally posted by koji_K
Could you expound on this? What report are you talking about? Wilson reported that claims of Iraq's attempt to purchase yellowcake from Niger were false, and it is generally accepted now that this was the case. The documents suggesting otherwise, which Wilson was sent to Niger to investigate, were themselves fabricated by dubious intelligence sources recruited by the OSP (namely, the one codenamed "curveball"). I know of no other evidence suggesting that Wilson did his job in Niger, and did it well.

This is not true. A bipartison Senate Intelligence Committee report totally discredited Wilson's report, and concluded he was a liar. British Intelligence stands by their report that Saddam was trying to get yellow cake from Niger.

www.nationalreview.com...

[edit on 7/15/2005 by djohnsto77]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
And there's a difference between 'working for the CIA' and being an undercover operative for the CIA. Of course people knew she worked at the CIA in the WMD division. She was also an agent. That's the secret part.

If she was not undercover and her cover was not blown then why did the director of the CIA, not an evil liberal by the way, ask the Attorney General's office to investigate it?

Originally posted by Delta 38
If she was not undercover and her cover was not blown then why did the director of the CIA, not an evil liberal by the way, ask the Attorney General's office to investigate it?

I think the investigation started under political pressure to appoint an independent counsel. Anyway, it's up to the DOJ to determine if a law could have been broken, not the CIA. The DOJ was just asked to look into the matter.

If you look at the law, it's clear Plame wasn't a covert agent.

(4) The term “covert agent” means—
(A) a present or retired officer or employee of an intelligence agency or a present or retired member of the Armed Forces assigned to duty with an intelligence agency—
(i) whose identity as such an officer, employee, or member is classified information, and
(ii) who is serving outside the United States or has within the last five years served outside the United States; or

(B) a United States citizen whose intelligence relationship to the United States is classified information, and—
(i) who resides and acts outside the United States as an agent of, or informant or source of operational assistance to, an intelligence agency, or
(ii) who is at the time of the disclosure acting as an agent of, or informant to, the foreign counterintelligence or foreign counterterrorism components of the Federal Bureau of Investigation; or

(C) an individual, other than a United States citizen, whose past or present intelligence relationship to the United States is classified information and who is a present or former agent of, or a present or former informant or source of operational assistance to, an intelligence agency.

Cornell Law

Plame was not stationed overseas nor had been for 5 years, therefore she clearly doesn't qualify as a covert agent under the law.

[edit on 7/15/2005 by djohnsto77]

[edit on 7/16/2005 by djohnsto77]

Originally posted by ferretman
1. Valerie Plume was working a desk job at the CIA at the time this came about.
2. Her husand has admitted that it was already publicly known that she worked for the CIA.
3. Valerie Plump was finished working any uncover operations for quite some time.
4. That reporters informed/mentioned to Rove about Valerie Plume about her being a CIA operative.

There ya' go!

The previous posts by folks demanding 'Rove must go' are silly. There is no
evidence that he did anything illegal. None. The evidence DOES support
that Plume being a CIA agent was not a secret and that her husband
himself yakked it up around town that she was. It follows his M.O.
and he's enjoying his (extended) 15 minutes of fame by being on TV
demanding Rove be fired for something that he didn't do.

www.newsmax.com...

Originally posted by Loki
Please tell me what the **** John Kerry has to do with this?

Certainly. There is no evidence to show that Rove did what the
partisan left is screaming about. None. However, there IS substantial
evidence in the form of sworn congressional testimony that Kerry DID
do it. I am showing the difference. Rove = no evidence. Kerry's
example shows what REAL evidence of outing a CIA agent looks like.
It is an educational link for you (and everyone) to read and learn from.

Stop dodging the issue for Rove.

No issue was dodged. Education was provided showing a true
'outing of a CIA agent'. Evidence of which is lacking in the Rove
situation.

We're all adults here, and one of the things
that come with adulthood is responsibility.

Good. Take responsibility and learn what real 'outing' facts look like.

It makes me sick, you all sound like children.

yeah, right. You sound so grown up. NOT! Guess not all
of us are adults here after all, eh?

Yeah, well you got caught.

No he didn't.

Now it's time to be punished.

No it's not.

Innocent until proven guilty. There is no evidence Rove is guilty.
There is sworn congressional evidence that Kerry is guilty of what
Rove is being accused of. If the rabid left were really interested in
following the law and of protecting CIA agents ... they'd be cleaning
up their own blatent illegal activities (Kerry Outing a CIA agent) and
they'd stop demanding Rove be fired before all the facts can be
gathered.

Wait for the full investigation of the situation and see the results.
If Rove is guilty, he gets fired and brought up on charges. Until/if
that day comes ... demanding someone be fired and 'punished' for
something he may or may not have done is just partison blathering.