Rove Learned About Plame From Journalists

According to an unidentified source, Karl Rove testified to the Grand Jury that he learned of Valarie Plame's CIA links from the media:

WASHINGTON - Presidential confidant Karl Rove testified to a grand jury that he learned the identity of a CIA operative originally from journalists, then informally discussed the information with a Time magazine reporter days before the story broke, according to a person briefed on the testimony.

The person, who works in the legal profession and spoke only on condition of anonymity because of the secrecy of grand jury proceedings, told The Associated Press that Rove testified last year that he remembers specifically being told by columnist Robert Novak that Valerie Plame, the wife of a harsh Iraq war critic, worked for the CIA.

Source: MSNBC

If this turns out to be true, there's no way that Karl Rove broke the law or acted in an improper way, since the law is clear that he'd have to had to learned it from classified information to break the law.

This changes the whole dynamic of this possible political conspiracy.

Actually what this information does is bring him down with his suppposed media sources.

Treason is treason, just because you got the name of an undercover CIA agent from a journalist is no reason to spout it out to the rest of the world.

All this info does is make the trail of treason longer.

No one committed treason here, the only question is whether the Covert Agent Identity Protection Act was ever broken, and it appears on levels that it wasn't.

edit:

Actually if anyone committed treason, it was Joseph Wilson who went to Niger and didn't do due dilligence in checking out the claims and submitted a false report back to the United States government, thereby giving aid and comfort to the Saddam Hussein regime.

[edit on 7/15/2005 by djohnsto77]

Originally posted by djohnsto77
According to an unidentified source, Karl Rove testified to the Grand Jury that he learned of Valarie Plame's CIA links from the media.

.........................................This changes the whole dynamic of this possible political conspiracy.

He went on to say, later that evening, that he told a woman he had a 12 inch penis & that he stopped competing in Ironman Triathalons because they no longer held a challenge.

This reinforces the dynamic of the Head Mayberry Machevelli throwing distractor smoke bombs via 'unnamed sources'. Given the high tolerance of accepting flight-O-fancy propaganda by the Blackshirts like yourself & Fox News, it will get some mileage. Nowhere near true, but even retread tires get you down the road some.

Actually, the real problem is being swept under the rug with all the symantics and rhetoric going on about the Rove debacle. The fact is, Bush said he would fire the person responsible for leaking the info. Rove is still employed so it appears that Bush has succeded in lying to the American public and got away with it agian.




[edit on 7/15/05 by Kidfinger]

I can't even think of Karl anymore without picturing this:

The television show American Dad depicted Rove as a shadowy figure clad in a red robe and cowl, a visual allusion to the villainous Star Wars character Emperor Palpatine. Whenever his name is said a wolf howls (In much the same way that horses whinny when in Mel Brooks' Young Frankenstein, Frau Blücher's name is said). When he tried to enter a church, he began to emit smoke; when he later departed the scene, he transformed into a swarm of bats.

He was behind the CIA dad becoming Deacon of the church, over a rival, hehe....

Rove testified last year that he remembers specifically being told by columnist Robert Novak that Valerie Plame, the wife of a harsh Iraq war critic, worked for the CIA.

I gotta admit, the thought of seeing Rove and Novak hand-in-hand walking off to prison just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside...

I've been wondering how Rove would really get out of this and this makes sense that he would tag it on someone else. It would be interesting to hear what Bob Novak has to say about this.

Listen, Rove is just trying to get away from taking responsibility for his actions. (Just like the rest of the Bush administration)

By blaming the right wing's latest scapegoat, the "Liberal" media...
(Just like the rest of the Bush administration)

Why aren't we holding our leaders accountable, people?

Rove learned the identity from journalists.
Seems the hubby of the CIA agent had loose lips
and told everyone as well. (LOTS of previous
discussion and stories about that!!)
So, a journalist told Rove about this 'non kept secret'
and the left is calling for Rove to be flogged, then what
should we do with John Kerry for doing WORSE????

www.newsmax.com...

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Rove learned the identity from journalists.
Seems the hubby of the CIA agent had loose lips
and told everyone as well. (LOTS of previous
discussion and stories about that!!)

So, a journalist told Rove about this 'non kept secret'
and the left is calling for Rove to be flogged, then what
should we do with John Kerry for doing WORSE????

www.newsmax.com...

Please tell me what the **** John Kerry has to do with this?

Stop dodging the issue for Rove. We're all adults here, and one of the things that come with adulthood is responsibility. It makes me sick, you all sound like children.

"Oh, he did it first".

Yeah, well you got caught. Now it's time to be punished.

****edited out censored word

[edit on 15-7-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]



^THIS.^

I don't like being censored, but ATS has built in censors, I'd appreciate it if my posts were otherwise unaltered from here on in. Thanks for the cooperation.

[edit on 7-15-2005 by Loki]

.
Spin, Doctor, Spin, Doctor, Spin.

OMG, can you believe this BS?

Journalists know CIA agents names that the Whitehouse doesn't ? ! ? !

You have to have the gullibility of a two year old to buy this.

djohnsto77,
punkin,
if you are buying this i really have to wonder about you.

edit:
Yeah, and to find out all the CIA, FBI undercover agents it is the back pages of the Sunday Paper. All you foreign spys get that? All that time you spent trying to get spy names and IDs, and its been right there in the news the whole time. Darn! If they had only told you, you could have saved so much time.
.

[edit on 15-7-2005 by slank]

There are two parts to this issue. First, revealing the identiity of a covert CIA operative, which is treason. Secondly the white house PUBLICALLY stating that anyone in the white house invovled in this would be "dismissed/fired from the white house"

in a September 30, 2003 press breifing this was said:

Q: Scott, has anyone -- has the president tried to find out who outed the CIA agent? And has he fired anyone in the White House yet?

McCLELLAN: Well, Helen, that's assuming a lot of things. First of all, that is not the way this White House operates. The president expects everyone in his administration to adhere to the highest standards of conduct. No one would be authorized to do such a thing.

[...]

McCLELLAN: The president has set high standards, the highest of standards for people in his administration. He's made it very clear to people in his administration that he expects them to adhere to the highest standards of conduct. If anyone in this administration was involved in it, they would no longer be in this administration.

If Rove was not involved, why doesn't the White house say so instead of having Scott "I lie for a living" McCellen say nothing but "There is an ongoing investigation". Not to metion they havn't even bothered to revoke Rove's security clearance.

This is a classic cover-up, they were successful in delaying the investicgation til after the election, but now the white house is in full damage control and spin mode on this matter

If Rove found out this information 2nd hand from reporters why didn't the white house do anything to try and track down this information leak? Regardless wherever that leak came from it has to be tracked down and verified, and they need to find out who had knowledge, and leaked the info to someone who was not suppose to know that Plame was a covert CIA operative.

found an interesting jem over Wayne Madsen Report

A knowledgeable CIA source has confirmed that Valerie Plame Wilson was a covert non-official cover (NOC) up until the day she was outed by Robert Novak -- July 14, 2003. Actually, Novak's syndicated column was on the Creators Syndicate wire and Plame's identity was known to news editors across the country at least a day before it appeared in print. Contrary to what the RNC, the White House, and Republicans in Congress are spinning, Vice President Cheney asked a CIA briefer during the July 6 President's Daily Brief about Wilson's OP-ED in the New York Times that appeared that morning about the envoy's trip to Niger on behalf of the CIA. When pressed, the briefer mentioned to Cheney that Wilson's wife worked for the agency's Counter-Proliferation Division (CPD). CIA insiders are reporting that upon hearing that, Cheney told Rove about Plame. Rove then laid his plans to smear Wilson and his wife through friendly and cooperative journalists like Novak and others. The CIA's Damage Assessment Report is in the hands of the Senate Select and House Permanent Select Committees on Intelligence. In another indication of its devastating nature, it is believed by insiders that if the damage report, in any way, exonerated the Bush administration, it would have been released by Intelligence Committee Republicans long ago. And in an indication that congressional Republicans are concerned about potential leaks of the Damage Assessment Report, they responded to Democratic initiatives to remove Rove's clearance with a threat to strip Democrats on the Senate and House Intelligence Committee of their own clearances.

Morale at the CIA over the White House disclosure is reported to be at an all-time low. To emphasize Plame's covert status, a number of Plame's CIA colleagues did not even know that when her name was revealed by Novak as Joseph Wilson's wife, that it was the same "Valerie," "Val," "Valerie P," or "Val P." they worked with professionally at Langley and abroad. But Rove, Cheney, and Scooter Libby knew of Plame's status and leaked all of what they knew to the media. Many CIA agents now fear that when they leave Langley and go overseas in case officer or non-official cover status, their lives may be in jeopardy since the White House cannot be trusted to protect their intelligence identities.

The Republicans, who claim the mantle of national security, are in denial over the severe damage done to the CIA, particularly from the disclosure of Plame and her NOC brass plate proprietary firm, Brewster Jennings & Associates. Even in cases where a case officer or NOC is accidentally revealed during a covert operation, they have been later targeted for assassinations by hostile intelligence services. Not only did Rove, Cheney, Libby, and others endanger Plame's and her colleagues' and assets' careers, but their lives as well.

[edit on 7/15/2005 by Jehosephat]

Jehosephat,

You're terribly misguided. This is not treason, as treason is strictly defined by the U.S. Constitution as:

United States Constitution
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

There's no way in hell whatever he may have done could be this.


The only other possibly applicable law is the Covert Agent Identity Protection Act which according to all legal scholars and the congresspeople who crafted the law simply doesn't apply to this situation.

Karl Rove did nothing wrong here.

If anyone in this administration was involved in it, they would no longer be in this administration.

I believe it is now a clear FACT that Rove was involved, therefore, if the administration is to retain any credibility (something in very short supply here), then they need to dismiss Rove immediately, just as damage control...but they don't seem to be that bright.

Treason may not have technically occured, and he may squirm out of the violation of the identity protection act, but it is clear Rove was involved and needs to go.....

It is treason (tho probly indirectly) because by revealing a Covert agent, it is aiding the enemy

Tho I am not a lawyer, so unless you are one, neither of use should really have a say what is treasonable or not

.
This is a grade school lie.

The question is, Is Novak willing to fall on his sword to give Rove some cover?

This is just bizzare.

They lied about aluminum tubes to get the US into a war.

I guess if you can believe novice pilots can swoop and wing and skim jumbo jets 6 feet off the ground at hundreds of miles per hour and still hit their targets,
I guess nothing defies credibility.

Common sense left this nation some where along the way.

This is just sureal.

When did reality end and the cartoon begin?
I must have been getting popcorn or something.
.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
and the left is calling for Rove to be flogged, then what
should we do with John Kerry for doing WORSE????

I love this.

The best either side can come up with is "well your people are crooks too". I guess they should let every person out of prision, after all there are other crooks out there too.

this is pathitic, yall sound like third graders in a school yard.

But go ahead keep electing the crooks year after year it only hurts if the OTHER crooks are in power.

I think BOTH parties should be throughly investigated and most if not all of the leaders jailed their various crimes.

But this will never happen because the same people that sell us our cars, hamburgers, TV, clothes, etc; also sell us our crooks.

What is sad is how many seemingly smart people cant see through the scam.

This will never stop till yall stop standing in a circle pointing fingers at each other sniviling "he hit me first". You are BOTH right. Bush is a crook, so was Clinton, Nixon, Reagon, Bush 1, etc.

QUIT PLAYING THE DAMN GAME. Get rid of the two party system.

Join a third party.

If Rove et al. didn't do anything wrong, why have they spent two years lying about what they did? No law was broken? Then what is Fitzgerald looking at? Why is a grand jury investigating Rove? A prosecutor like Fitzgerald, a Republican appointee, wouldn't be throwing journalists in jail unless he thought he was investigating a serious crime.

What's their answer to that? They have none. Rove runs the Washington Republican party, owns it. So it's anything but hold him accountable.

.
On July 14, 2003 Novak writes a column revealing Plames identity as a CIA operative and said the source was senior Administration:

Novak, who also is a CNN contributor, attributed the information to two senior administration officials.

www.cnn.com...

Here is Rove red-handed revealing Wilson's wife as CIA:

One of the e-mails was a note from Cooper to his boss in which he said he had spoken to Rove, who described the wife of former U.S. Ambassador Joe Wilson, a Bush administration critic, as someone who "apparently works" at the CIA, Newsweek magazine reported.

www.cnn.com...

It isn't the first time Rove has leaked information to Novak.
Rove fired by Bush Senior for leaking to Novak
What kind of Bush Backside kisser do you have to be to deny the obvious reality?

[edit on 15-7-2005 by slank]

Clifford May from The National Review now says that in fact it was Joe Wilson through David Corn of the liberal rag The Nation who really leaked the confidential information concerning Plame:

www.nationalreview.com...