Top 4 most powerful military's

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Russia is not the leader. i know India can be in second place but not china. the partnership will see china as leader.

common chinaman Russia is never ready to accept the US to be the leader....china doesn’t come into consideration

look who has the money and the economic power. who cares about technology. western countries eg France Germany are willing to sell china very advanced tech..

what do u mean ?china has economically improved no doubt ...but still its a "developing country" ...It may be tolerated when the West tells that Russia doesn’t have money ...but sorry such words are not acceptable from the Chinese ...they are still way behind ...as far as money is concerned .....Russia's per capita income is more than twice than that of China
and China 's military expenditure is a bit more than half than that of Russia

and who cares of Technology???????" everyone does except China and China have enough reason not to after all they are the best copiers in this world...but by coping you can get a growth rate of 7% but for being leaders you need originality .....a leader is one who is respected ...how can you expect of getting respect when you don’t have any originality?????

russia might have a lot of natural resources but it means nothing when you dont have the factories to turn then into finished goods.

Russia is one of the top 8 industrialized nations in the world ...Its a member of the G8 ....who cares what i say or what you say ...the top 7 (G7)Industrialized do recognize Russia to be a member of the G8 ....China is not a member of the group....for being top you need to follow some business ethics…… non licensed copying may bring you some money....but forget the G8 membership

Russia sells china $50 worth of raw materials china sells the finished goods back to Russia for $200. you see who’s making the money.

if the fact is true then its an intelligent move by Russians coz producing the same goods in Russia would have coasted 400$ bcoz labor is a lot more cheap in China.,..(the same reason for which US call centers have flourished in India)...well that puts china down from the economic point of view ...All I want to say that China has improved no doubt but still far beyond Russia from economic point of view... (compare GDP per capita of china apporox 4500$ vs Russia 11590$)

Russian tech has never been very good. but right now china is forced to buy Russian arms because of the 89 ban on weapon sales to china

Russian Military tech is far better than the west…there are a lot of products in the Russian market which France Germany etc have never produced there are even some sectors who Russia is still the top (eg Military hovercrafts , rocket launchers etc)……

Russia is and never had been a poor country…it’s a poorly managed country at present.

Let me tell you chinawhite that there is not one major chinese weapon system that does'nt have Russian technologies in it.

IMO Russia are atleast 25 years ahead of China in technology.

IMO both India and China are indebted to Russia for what they are today.

china can produce the J-11 by herself now.

that's licence production; Russia have given China the licence to produce it.

have our own ships.

sure you do; but lots of its parts are Russian and some are Ukraineian

build our own tanks.

Yeah..china's latest tank - the Type 98 has lots of Russian input...everyone knows it.

and our subs.

with lots of Russian help...and most are influenced by pre-exesting Russian designs


Russia is a leader and China (& India) are either reverse engineers or buyers of thier technology.

[edit on 18-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]

BUT with this I must add India has some plus points against China

1 Apart from the Russian Tech India has parallel developed indigenous independent tech ....And if India can properly privatize her defense industry with a proper management and can bring back her talented brains/prevent brain drain ....India has the capacity to rock the world....specially when of the most successful US /Western researches are Indians

2 China will very soon reach economic saturation ...while India has a long time to go

3 as proved by their international acceptance India has got better brains /educational institutions than China

4 There is a tradition of getting educated in the Indian middle class...still in some families of India even today Education is valued more than Money ....and I think you cant expect comments like “who needs Technology” from an educated indian

5 India is a more independent (perhaps the most Independent country ) and more liberal country with a better international reputation than China

Well India has some drawbacks against china too
1 IF India has Law China has order
2 India's development is hampered by US +Pak +Chinese backed terrorism and Separatist movt with US being the big boss for double standards
3 The Indian Political system needs some reforms that will enhance educated young people into politics
4 India needs to control her growing population…. immediately
and the last point is my personal opinion

5 Indians must learn to respect their own language and great culture...if you don’t respect your culture you cant expect others to respect you


[edit on 18-7-2005 by prelude]

Originally posted by prelude
Russia is and never had been a poor country…it’s a poorly managed country at present.

A saddening fact. Russia has all the resources to be a super power once again...and it is the only country apart from the US that deserves to be a super power.....if only it was properly managed.

And yes prelude, India must take drastic steps to cut down population, like China's one child policy(but there is a lack of political will because any party that impliments such a policy will surely loose the next election).....and we should take steps to cut brain drain too..as some of India's most gifted people end up working for NASA or other US companies...and only "discards" (no offence) end up in DRDO. ...and instead of taking steps Manmohan Singh (PM of India) is in the US now and is requesting more visas for skilled Indian people to go and work in the US

Originally posted by SiberianTiger
Rus doesn't need and Ally to fight USA and when ww3 starts Rus will not ask for help, NON of that is true Rus has 39,000 Nukes and USA 25,000 nukes all those figures are nothing but DIS-info, now with the way USA is pushing for more nukes I think Rus has increased by 75,000 nukes while us increased to 50,000 nukes.




"Russia doesn't need and Ally to fight USA and when WW3 starts Rusia will not ask for help ... "

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You know, you are absolutely right! We Americans are so weak and pathetic that Russia laughs at us with outright contempt ... and of course, it is a well known fact that the new "Lean and Mean" Superpower Russia could stomp anyone ... especially us poor, low tech, unmotivated, and unorganized yokels ... "

>>>>>>>>>>>>>


NON of that is true Rus has 39,000 Nukes and USA 25,000 nukes all those figures are nothing but DIS-info, now with the way USA is pushing for more nukes I think Rus has increased by 75,000 nukes while us increased to 50,000 nukes.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

hmmmmm... Sources AND links please for your claims.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

LCKob

Russia has the largest number of millionares in the world, due to the fall of the CCCP, Yelsin was the biggest draw back for russia during his presidency people weren't payed their wages on time, but things changed during the Putin presidency, the debts were paid and the economy is rising constantly.
Russia will fully back on it feet in the next 5-7 years and dominate asia and parts of eastern europe(not occupation like CCCP). As for russian tech it is advanced and reliable. Russia will outpace china. Russian people are very patriotic and will work hard to support and defend their country.

Originally posted by belorus
Russia has the largest number of millionares in the world.

As far as I know Russia has the third largest number of billioneres after USA and Germany .....
However once I read something stating unofficially MOSCOW had the largest no of billioneres in the world ....and after that the journalist who compiled the list of billioneres was murdered...any info ...any link?

It was a political show on an independent network called (HTB) or NTV in english. i will try to find it on the web.

[edit on 18-7-2005 by belorus]

Let me tell you that 98% of the jobs that get outsourced to China are low end factory worker jobs. But the jobs that get outsourced to Russia and India are 30% call center jobs(India only) and 70% high end white collar jobs like microchip R&D, software development, and other IT field related jobs.

Infact the China's largest tech company Huwai, has a 2000+ people R&D centre in Bangalore and a 800 person R&D centre in Noida and a 300 person one in Gurgaon & one in Hyderabad as well, but i dont know how many people work there (all Indian cities). But the products like routers, ADSL modems,etc that are reserched here are sent to china for manufacturing, where the factory workors put the parts together. And the technical support to the same is provided by call centres all over India.

And the same is the case with most companies of the world.

It not like USA or Japan or the all the European nations cannot do what India and China (&Russia) are doing, but its just that we do it at a far less price.

But you see, Russia are not competetors for manufacturing jobs that go to China, so your comment

is highly invalid.

Let me also tell you that India is highly dependant on Russia for weaponry and is indebted to Russia for not only providing the same but also for standing by India during its darkest hours and supporting India in every venture it has undertaken at all levels

And yes China (& India) are moving towards indegisation of weaponry and all that, but instead of thinking 30+ years into the future lets look at the present. China & India is highly dependant on Russia and will be for the next 30 years.

Infact before posting i suggest you look at the facts, China is infact the largest importer of Russian weaponry and is 90+% of all of Chinese weapony have Russian technologies in them.

And BTW : Europe just decided not to raise the arms embargo on China(read Daedalus's related post); so there will not be any arms interaction between them, and even of any it will be negligible. So China will be reliant on Russia for a long time to come. Infact there are proposed sales of Tu-22M's , Mig-31's , more advanced flankers, and lots of sales. Infact just a few days Russia sold a new anti-ship missile to China. All of China's new IFV's are based on the BMP-3 and BMD-3 (Russian IFV's). Russia is also building destroyers for China. Infact just 3 days back China and Russia signed a deal for 100 Al-31 FN enfgines for the J-10 aircraft (which also has Russian involvement). And a few days back Russia had also signed a deal with China for providing 150 RD-93 engines for China's FC-1 (which itself is a development of a Russian design with large Russian involvement). Infact even for China's J-xx project Russia have supplied software to determine the RCS values from different sides !

Infact the recent Chinese space adventure would have been impossible without Russia...read this : www.abovetopsecret.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">Chinese space mission was only because of Russian help

Your claims that China is independant of Russia for weaponry is absurd, incorrect and an example of wishful thinking of the highest order. Infact it is disappointing & disgusting to hear someone take all the help from someone and deny the same

If Russia blocked all acess to China for its weaponry, and with Europe still having its embargo in place, and the Israel route now being cut off by USA then what will China get to reverse engineer and copy ????


BTW : New ATS graphics look cool

ohhh.. too much flak!!.. heading for cover..

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
Let me tell you chinawhite that there is not one major chinese weapon system that does'nt have Russian technologies in it.

IMO Russia are atleast 25 years ahead of China in technology.

please name some??

IMO both India and China are indebted to Russia for what they are today.

no where not. soviet union but not russia. two different countries

that's licence production; Russia have given China the licence to produce it.

i said production.

sure you do; but lots of its parts are Russian and some are Ukraineian

name them please i would like to here this.

Yeah..china's latest tank - the Type 98 has lots of Russian input...everyone knows it.

where is the help????

with lots of Russian help...and most are influenced by pre-exesting Russian designs

so? influenced.

Originally posted by prelude


common chinaman Russia is never ready to accept the US to be the leader....china doesn’t come into consideration

what was that you fuking curry

what do u mean ?china has economically improved no doubt ...but still its a "developing country" ...It may be tolerated when the West tells that Russia doesn’t have money ...but sorry such words are not acceptable from the Chinese ...they are still way behind ...as far as money is concerned .....Russia's per capita income is more than twice than that of China
and China 's military expenditure is a bit more than half than that of Russia

and who cares of Technology???????" everyone does except China and China have enough reason not to after all they are the best copiers in this world...but by coping you can get a growth rate of 7% but for being leaders you need originality .....a leader is one who is respected ...how can you expect of getting respect when you don’t have any originality?????

russians need investment. russias domestic companies are poorly run and have very little funding. please point to some russian comapines that can compete with chinese comapines

what originality does russia have?

what does russia make what does russian produce

russian GDP
$1.408 trillion

chinese GDP
$7.262 trillion

big difference

Russia is one of the top 8 industrialized nations in the world ...Its a member of the G8 ....who cares what i say or what you say ...the top 7 (G7)Industrialized do recognize Russia to be a member of the G8 ....China is not a member of the group....for being top you need to follow some business ethics…… non licensed copying may bring you some money....but forget the G8 membership

have you seem russian industry. they cant compete. run down state controlled steel mills russian equipment date back the the soviet era.

china has a larger GDP than canada and italy. but its not in the G8 for a reason.

if the fact is true then its an intelligent move by Russians coz producing the same goods in Russia would have coasted 400$ bcoz labor is a lot more cheap in China.,..(the same reason for which US call centers have flourished in India)...well that puts china down from the economic point of view ...All I want to say that China has improved no doubt but still far beyond Russia from economic point of view... (compare GDP per capita of china apporox 4500$ vs Russia 11590$)

no your figures are wrong.
china
$5,600

russia
$9,800

Russian Military tech is far better than the west…there are a lot of products in the Russian market which France Germany etc have never produced there are even some sectors who Russia is still the top (eg Military hovercrafts , rocket launchers etc)……
Russia is and never had been a poor country…it’s a poorly managed country at present.

lol. please poit to these wonderful russian equipment. the west doesn't produce things liek that because they are useless. rockets are inaccurate(the US has MLRS) and hovercraft are invading other countries/soviet tactics in cold war

Chinawhite i have alredy addressed all my claims with links in my previous posts. i wont quote stuff as i'm bored of quoting stuff, etc.

but here are some links :

About the chinese tanks and russia >> its in this old threadChina's tanks - all copies

and about the chinese ships read from these links yourself.... a lot of it is Russian & Ukrainean (including China's latest 052C destroyer)>> click on the links on the left hand side and find out for yourself >> www.sinodefence.com...

about Russian invlovement in subs >> (these are only the new subs; the old ones need no mention)

about the new 093 nuclear sub : It appeared that China had encountered a range of technical difficulties in developing the Type 093 SSN, including nuclear radiation and noise reduction. It was reported that Russian assistance was sought to solve these critical issues in the late 1990s.
www.sinodefence.com...

about the new 94 sub >> Incorporating some Russian technology, the Type 094 SSBN is expected to be a dramatic improvement over the sole Type 092 (Xia class) SSBN, with improved quieting and sensor systems, and a more reliable propulsion system.

www.sinodefence.com...

another new sub : A new Chinese indigenous diesel-electric submarine, codenamed by the NATO as Yuan class, was first launched in 2004 at Wuhan Shipyard. The submarine appears to be a completely new design, with clear influence of the Russian Kilo class.
www.sinodefence.com...

and all from a chinese link

Originally posted by prelude
.specially when of the most successful US /Western researches are Indians

yeah come on. prove to me they are.

i heard it all before. 25% of NASA are indian. blah blah blah

2 China will very soon reach economic saturation ...while India has a long time to go

chians economy might slow down but its still growing at 9% and the lowest it will slow down to is 6%. indias growth rate is 6%

3 as proved by their international acceptance India has got better brains /educational institutions than China

yeah ok. like i said get proof.

4 There is a tradition of getting educated in the Indian middle class...still in some families of India even today Education is valued more than Money ....and I think you cant expect comments like “who needs Technology” from an educated indian

i said who cares about technology refering to the size of the gap between russian and chiense tech.

dont who know chinese value education more than anything else. do you know how hard it is to get to a chinese university.

5 India is a more independent (perhaps the most Independent country ) and more liberal country with a better international reputation than China

in human rights??

who are you judging this.

2 India's development is hampered by US +Pak +Chinese backed terrorism and Separatist movt with US being the big boss for double standards

ok the US is fighting the war againest muslims. and they are backing kashmir freedom fighters. ok your right

5 Indians must learn to respect their own language and great culture...if you don’t respect your culture you cant expect others to respect you
[edit on 18-7-2005 by prelude]

what language is that english?

Originally posted by Stealth Spy


About the chinese tanks and russia >> its in this old threadChina's tanks - all copies

quote your links.

the T-98 is a improved T-90II

how can it be a T-72 copy?

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
Let me tell you that 98% of the jobs that get outsourced to China are low end factory worker jobs. But the jobs that get outsourced to Russia and India are 30% call center jobs(India only) and 70% high end white collar jobs like microchip R&D, software development, and other IT field related jobs.

chian doesn't need the western out-sourcing. chinas the worlds third largest RnD spender. cant say the same for india because they dont have money for it.


PROVIDE LINKS TO THIS PLEASE. you are cracking me up.

how many factory jobs does china get for around a million indian jobs.

Infact the China's largest tech company Huwai, has a 2000+ people R&D centre in Bangalore and a 800 person R&D centre in Noida and a 300 person one in Gurgaon & one in Hyderabad as well, but i dont know how many people work there (all Indian cities). But the products like routers, ADSL modems,etc that are reserched here are sent to china for manufacturing, where the factory workors put the parts together. And the technical support to the same is provided by call centres all over India.

So what china has huge RnD centers. those ones would be considered small.

But you see, Russia are not competetors for manufacturing jobs that go to China, so your comment

what other jobs does russia have.?

Infact before posting i suggest you look at the facts, China is infact the largest importer of Russian weaponry and is 90+% of all of Chinese weapony have Russian technologies in them.

name the weapons sytems china is importing from russia. you will find they make aq small fraction of chiense military equipment.

please provide proof. you bore with with this ridiculous chit-chat

And BTW : Europe just decided not to raise the arms embargo on China; so there will not be any arms interaction between them, and even of any it will be negligible. So China will be reliant on Russia for a long time to come. Infact there are proposed sales of Tu-22M's , Mig-31's , more advanced flankers, and lots of sales. Infact just a few days Russia sold a new anti-ship missile to China. All of China's new IFV's are based on the BMP-3 and BMD-3 (Russian IFV's). Russia is also building destroyers for China. Infact just 3 days back China and Russia signed a deal for 100 Al-31 FN enfgines for the J-10 aircraft (which also has Russian involvement). And a few days back Russia had also signed a deal with China for providing 150 RD-93 engines for China's FC-1 (which itself is a development of a Russian design with large Russian involvement). Infact even for China's J-xx project Russia have supplied software to determine the RCS values from different sides !

china doesn't need russia. france germany have very good relation with china. why buy russian when you can buy western

Infact the recent Chinese space adventure would have been impossible without Russia...read this :Chinese space mission was only because of Russian help [/url]

yeah ok. tell me who made the spaceship the capsule the equipment the lauchng pad?

Your claims that China is independant of Russia for weaponry is absurd, incorrect and an example of wishful thinking of the highest order. Infact it is disappointing & disgusting to hear someone take all the help from someone and deny the same

ok. china is not poor old india which the indian military doesn't even trust indians to make there own equipment. its a fact. why is the arjun so shiet why is the LCA taking so long. why?

If Russia blocked all acess to China for its weaponry, and with Europe still having its embargo in place, and the Israel route now being cut off by USA then what will China get to reverse engineer and copy ????
BTW : New ATS graphics look cool

ok what weapons does chian need off russia that it cant already produce herself.

ok. stealthspy. all those people employed in the textiles industy dont exist. its indias highest employing industry.


and please tell me how much money india makes off out-sourcing and call-centers.??

Would it not be easier to just get one soldier from each of these supposed most powerful armies, have them stand in a row, drop there pants and see who has the longest and biggest set of all?

All this chest beating and testosterone is what it's really all about at the end of the day?

here stealthspy and that other guy. the magical indian economy
news.bbc.co.uk...


were you expecting me to believe that the indian IT industry which only makes 7blillion a year will attract 100% of the investment/out sourcing.

how are they going to employ 1 billion indians?. look at the education percentage. and your claims about indian scienist.LOL

PLEASE PROVIDE LINKS THAT STATE THAT 25% OF NASA IS INDIAN. and most renouned scientist are indian

chinawhite your posts only shame yourself ; quit posting outdated 1998 articles; and quit putting words into my mouth...wtf 25% are you talking about; and when did i ever speak of how much money india makes, etc ??

i can debunk all your false claims if want to but i will have to restrain myself from doing so to insulate myself from the risk being banned...and moreover arguing with a never ceasing china-egoist like you who cant stop dreaming on and on about china and posting truckloads of crap and harping on and on about china this and china that..china no1, china super power....china got no problems....china is better than russia, china is independant of russia.....china always wins....everything chinese is perfect...everything china does is right....state controlled media is the best.....communism is the best......chinese world domination assured.....mass executions are good.... making personal attacks when you're beaten to the wall, etc and what not is is a waste of time.

Sorry to say but things are different back here in the real world.

Go ahead post all day..all you want ...articles from 1998, 1988 ...india sucks..india is in the middle ages...india started the 1962 war.....etc and what not.....it always gives me a good laugh