NEWS: International Poll Reveals: World favors China over USA

Originally posted by WeBDeviL
Um..

This is the same China that is STILL jailing people and killing people for arguing against the government?/

Sounds like the US to me.

I do believe many popular, public CELEBRITIES and other popular leaders speak out against America and nothing happens.

Sad is it not?

C'mon people, comparing the freedoms of China to the U.S. is like comparing apples and oranges.

I would not go that far. It is like comparing red apples to green apples.

Hell, I've been to China and let me tell you, it isn't good 'ol Texas I'll tell you that much

I agree. It seems. TX is one of the most racist, religously fanatical Christian area on the planet.

Originally posted by WeBDeviL
This is the same China that is STILL jailing people and killing people for arguing against the government?

I'm still waiting to see figures, dates and names of these people. I can claim the same about America adn I'm sure I can find a source to back it up. To be honest I am fairly sure if I spoke out against the Government in the correct way I would be locked up in Modern America or Great Britain - I'm damn sure on the Second.

Originally posted by WeBDeviL
I do believe many popular, public CELEBRITIES and other popular leaders speak out against America and nothing happens.

This has also happened in China? Chan Kong-sang has spoken out about his views many times and he is still a citizen of China and famous at that. There was also a movie made this eyar about mining in China, another about the corruption of the Government. There is a shocking difference between old China and new China.

Originally posted by WeBDeviL
C'mon people, comparing the freedoms of China to the U.S. is like comparing apples and oranges. Hell, I've been to China and let me tell you, it isn't good 'ol Texas I'll tell you that much

Funny, I've been given more respect by Chinese people in the flesh then I do Americans. In honest, I find most Americans that I have met (and I live near a USAF base, so I see enough), rude, judgemental and ignorant. I have had several US service men make "snide" remarks about the way I look, yet never have I had a Chinese student be rude to me about my life-style choices. The people I tend to find a lot nicer, at least that is how they come off.

All you Americans slagging China off need to remember that no matter what you say about your own country and China - the world still favours China over the United States.

Harp on about the freedoms you think you have all you like. If your founding fathers hadnt been so on the money with your constitution you'd only have one right left - the right to buy.

Dead peasant tax, compulsory purchase orders for your home to go to private companies, sneak and peak, indefinate detention with no right to appeal, unaudited government contracts to former employers by Cheney, highest prison population on the globe, 2 invasions in the last 4 years, Dr.Phil and your countries first felon President - Bush.

Just try and stop me immigrating to that country!

Originally posted by subz
All you Americans slagging China off need to remember that no matter what you say about your own country and China - the world still favours China over the United States.

Harp on about the freedoms you think you have all you like. If your founding fathers hadnt been so on the money with your constitution you'd only have one right left - the right to buy.

Dead peasant tax, compulsory purchase orders for your home to go to private companies, sneak and peak, indefinate detention with no right to appeal, unaudited government contracts to former employers by Cheney, highest prison population on the globe, 2 invasions in the last 4 years, Dr.Phil and your countries first felon President - Bush.

Just try and stop me immigrating to that country!

"the world still favors China over the United States" - Based on what? A vague poll? Do you know anyone who took the poll? Do you accept polls as fact? Does "the world" favor Chinese foreign policy over American foreign policy? Or Chinese domestic policy over American domestic policy? Or do the Chinese just make better sneakers?

"compulsary purchase orders for your home to go to private companies" - Yep, that's pretty much how it works. I bought this computer I'm typing on and it was in fact produced by a private company. Wait, actually shares of the company are actually traded in the public sector.

"Dr. Phil" - That's a teevee show right? I forget because I get 125 channels or something like that and don't watch every show on teevee.

"2 invasions" - This is a whole can of worms. You need to elaborate on "invasions" because an "invasion" isn't inherently an evil thing.

And all the various stuff that's corrupt and unnecessary. You're absolutely right. I don't disagree in the least. A lot of it is new McCarthyism. That wasn't the end of the world either. Do you like having your country judged by the actions of the "Royal Family"? Do you dress up like Hitler for costume parties?

Quick, choose the one where you would rather live.

For those who prefers China over the US should remember this pictures:

Massacre 1
Massacre 2
More massacre pics
Chinese troops having fun beating on Tibetan monks

This one brave unknown Chinese standing up for freedom

Just remember, ordinary Chinese who were presented at the protest for freedom/democracy in China back in 1989 are not even allowed to honor and commemorate the dead at the very scene where the massacre took place.

Now you're rooting for China over the US??! Talk about a major screw-up in your heads!

[edit on 6/24/2005 by the_oleneo]

"compulsary purchase orders for your home to go to private companies" - Yep, that's pretty much how it works.

I think he was referring to the recent Supreme Court decision that local governments can seize your home and bulldoze it to create space for "economic development" projects: IE someone with connections in City Hall wants to put a Wal Mart there, you have to go. Sure, maybe your family has lived in the home for generations, but hey, there's palms that need greasing.

[edit on 6/24/05 by xmotex]

Originally posted by the_oleneo
For those who prefers China over the US should remember this pictures:
This one brave unknown Chinese standing up for freedom

Now you're rooting for China over the US??!

Talk about a major screw-up in your heads!

You do know that this is an international discussion board. Man with the veracity of your post you would think that we are going to change the world, like the last pic there.

Chill mate.

I don't think anyone here favors China over the US if truly looking at the whole picture. I think most speaking against the US here haven't been directly affected by our CURRENT government's actions and policies but are rightly critical of our current government's actions and policies.

Obviously the poll is meaningless. It wasn't a "world" poll, which would be a logistical nightmare, and "favor" is meaningless unless it's hooked up to some nouns anyway.

Some just happen to apply the ambiguity of the poll to fit their own feelings. So of course those are the people that hold it up as some sort of scientific fact or something. That includes people here at home.

As an important republic we are evaluated against high expectations. Unfortunately, our leaders are doing the talking for us at the moment.

Not that it's happening here on this thread, but I can't get over people that absolutely condemn everything about the US without thinking about the whole picture. A lot of times things aren't great and that's an understatement.

But I don't see those same people refusing polio vaccinations, giving up lightbulbs, or giving up the internet because Tim Berners Lee was american.

Originally posted by subz
The Soviets were our ALLIES in WW2 yet look how fast we turned on them.

Chalk up another example of your poor educational knowledge on the early years of the post-World War II era. We (the Western powers: US, UK, etc) did not turned on the Soviets quickly. Rather it was Stalin who turned against his Western partners on the question of occupation and security of Germany and Eastern Europe on his terms. Stalin refused to honor the Yalta accords, which eventually led to the breakup between the Allies and the Soviet Union.

Originally posted by subz
Those that trot out, look how ungrateful the World is to America because we helped them out of the crapper in WW2 annoy me. You cannot rest on those laurels for eternity when you continue to claim to be the bastion of liberty and justice for the entire planet.

Keep it up, subz. Your blatant anti-American bias and prejudice are very revealing. The fact remains that the US saved Europe from Nazism, nonetheless. Next time we may not be there in case Europe needs us in the future. You sound like a French.

Originally posted by subz
Call us ungrateful as much as you like but the World at large does not trust America any more. Its directly in response to the Bush administrations behaviour. Look at how the World viewed America as recently as the Clinton Administration, hell contrast it to the days following 9/11. Then contrast it to today.

Too bad you don't trust America on that silly basis. I don't trust you and your kind already, since 1989.

Originally posted by subz
The World at large has gone from predominantly and actively seeking America's assistance in all aspects of World politics to shunning them and trying to contain them.

In that case, America should turn back on the world and tell the world to take a flying hike to the Devil's lair. Don't call us, we're too busy for the world.

I believe it's high time Americans should become isolationists, withdraw from the UN, concentrate on taking care of ourselves, protecting our borders, our country and have plenty of funs and works to do. The rest of the world can go to hell.

Originally posted by intrepid
You do know that this is an international discussion board. Man with the veracity of your post you would think that we are going to change the world, like the last pic there.

Chill mate.

I know, man. It just galls me that some people on the international level are cheerly preferring China over the US but completely forget how completely totalitarian China is. Even what the Bush administration have been doing with homeland security policies since 2001 doesn't even hold a candle to the repressive capability and scale of the Chinese government under the Communists have over the Chinese people.

Originally posted by subz
The World at large has gone from predominantly and actively seeking America's assistance in all aspects of World politics to shunning them and trying to contain them.

Whoa. Hold on there my fine fellow.

Yet again with "the World" talk. I guess you did some poll on your own and can verify it and everything. Or are you still hiding behind an inherently suspect and ambiguous poll because it suits your as-yet-unexplained bitterness of the States?

Who has stopped seeking US assistance "IN ALL ASPECTS OF WORLD POLITICS"? No one. (Prove me wrong.) I'm not sure at this point that you even know what you mean. At the least, that is a poorly worded statement.

Has the UK cut themselves off from us, because I don't see it. (Show me.)

First and foremost: Do you actually think this poll means something? The World is against america? (Based on what?)

Seriously, step up to the mic.

[edit on 24-6-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

[edit on 24-6-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

Originally posted by subz
....................
The USA on the other hand has seen to it that my country has been transformed into a quasi-police state. Imported fascist aspects of the United States are being readily implemented over here by our government and I dont like it!

Your country's politicians did that by themselves.....the US had nothing to do with it.

Perhaps you should start blaming your politicians for what they do in your country.

Originally posted by subz
Also can you show me where I went off topic? You're obvously dillusional. You were called out by Odium for going off topic yet you blame me for it. Good work

Do we have to go throught this again subz? you always do the same subz....

Odium claimed that i went off topic when i mentioned that the US did not invida Afgahnistan and Iraq alone...and why did i mention this?.....perhaps your memory is not working right for some reason. Let me refrehs your memory.

Originally submitted by subz
I currently favour China over the USA Muaddib. They havent actually carried out 2 invasions in the last 4 years have they?

So theres one vote that they havent fudged.

So if i strayed off topic, it was to respond to your claim subz.

[edit on 24-6-2005 by Muaddib]

"i guess Canada was not in the invasion of Afgahnistan, as well as several other countries. i guess Spain, the U.K and the other countries which became part of the coalition had nothing to do with iraq either...."

Was the part I was talking about. If you read the source and poll you will understadn why that is off topic.

Originally posted by the_oleneo
I know, man. It just galls me that some people on the international level are cheerly preferring China over the US but completely forget how completely totalitarian China is. Even what the Bush administration have been doing with homeland security policies since 2001 doesn't even hold a candle to the repressive capability and scale of the Chinese government under the Communists have over the Chinese people.

Why would people who don't live in China or America care about how they live if they don't have to live there? It's their country and they can do whatever they want there as long as it doesn't interfere with the sovereignty of other nations. If the Chinese want to change their ways than that's up to them and I'm not going to judge their system because that's their job. The moment China starts using it's military to force it's beliefs down the throat of other nations they will not be liked, when China was practising this in the past it was condemned just like any nation would be. If your now going to tell me that America only is forcing their beliefs on others because your beliefs are better, than that is exactly what every other expanionist country has said. From Rome to Napolean France, they all claimed they were bringing a better way of life to the countries they invaded and maybe from their point of view they did but the end results proved that the other countries didn't want to be carbon copies of the invading countries. Actions anyways speak louder than words and saying China is currently more expanisonist than the US when you have invaded two countries recently and have military bases in many others will fall on deaf ears.

[edit on 24-6-2005 by Trent]

Originally posted by subz
All you Americans slagging China off need to remember that no matter what you say about your own country and China - the world still favours China over the United States.

Really, and why is this, because a site noone really knows that much about claims that the world prefers China over the US?

I wonder if that site could have some other ulterior motive for such a post. i mean China and India are not doing any businesses right?

Originally posted by subz
Just try and stop me immigrating to that country!

Why you plan on immigrating anywhere?..... Go ahead and move to China if you want subz, more power to you.

Originally posted by 2nd Hand Thoughts
Some just happen to apply the ambiguity of the poll to fit their own feelings. So of course those are the people that hold it up as some sort of scientific fact or something. That includes people here at home.
--snip--
But I don't see those same people refusing polio vaccinations, giving up lightbulbs, or giving up the internet because Tim Berners Lee was american.

Don't you you think the poll matches the change in attitude that has been seen in other places like on this very forum and others like it?

I have seen an increase in anti-Americanism over the past two years and have even been guilty of a bit of Anti-Americanism during that same timeframe. Whereas prior to the Iraq war I had no ill feelings towards the US.


BTW, do some research on the lightbulb.
Edison's patent was rejected in Britain in 1879 because a British man named Joseph Wilson Swan had already recieved a patent on the lightbulb a year earlier.
www.answers.com...

And Tim Berners Lee was British not American
en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 24-6-2005 by AceOfBase]

Originally posted by Odium
I'm still waiting to see figures, dates and names of these people. I can claim the same about America adn I'm sure I can find a source to back it up. To be honest I am fairly sure if I spoke out against the Government in the correct way I would be locked up in Modern America or Great Britain - I'm damn sure on the Second.

If you really know anything about China, you would know that China keeps it's business very confidential, and that includes the people they jail, and the people they kill. Noone has the complete figures because the government keeps a very tight seal on such information.

Although i do not agree with some of the statements that Amnesty international has been providing as of late, their numbers more often than not are close to the truth.

China: Horrific new year as executions rise to 100 a week
Amnesty International has monitored a significant rise in executions as China celebrates the lunar new year. According to incomplete statistics, there were 200 executions reported in the two weeks leading up to the start of the lunar new year, 9 February 2005.

There were at least 650 executions reported in local media in the months of December and January alone. Both months are considered to be ‘normal’, without the peaks seen around certain public holidays, although the true figure is certainly much higher, as China refuses to publish full details of all the people it executes.

Amnesty International UK Director Kate Allen said:

“There is a huge gap between policy and practice regarding the death penalty in China.

“While the government claims that the death penalty is applied cautiously, the ritual peak in executions we’re witnessing at the moment completely undermines any pretence of ‘caution’.

“There is the very real concern that a number of those executed may have been innocent. China’s justice system is simply not sound enough to guarantee a fair trial.”

Excerpted from.
www.amnesty.org.uk...



[edit on 24-6-2005 by Muaddib]

It's Simple. IMO, at least

China, is at a point where it needs to be loved.
Most of their human rights violations are internal.
The Big China love fest, is what is feeding the military infrastructure.
Everyone trades with China, Everyone gets cheap household goods.
China gets big money, and a big military...

THEN, sometime in the future, China will not give a crap about who loves them.
I would assume this timeframe will be related to their "space program", and it's success .. You have to test a LOT of missles to be successful

So it is with all things. As was mentioned by Trent, don't let this pro-China thing or Anti-American thing distract from the reasons why it is showing what it is showing. People will, naturally, have better feelings towards those that keep to themself's than those that prance around the world tryingt o export their viewpoints. This isn't really new, and to think that America wouldn't be looked at the same way that anyone else has been throughout history is naive. IMO.

Originally posted by AceOfBase
.................
Don't you you think the poll matches the change in attitude that has been seen in other places like on this very forum and others like it?

I have seen an increase in anti-Americanism over the past two years and have even been guilty of a bit of Anti-Americanism during that same timeframe. Whereas prior to the Iraq war I had no ill feelings towards the US.
..................

Ill will and hatred towards the US is nothing new, and it certainly didn't start two years ago. It has been this way for decades. There are more than enough reasons for the US and the coalition to have gone to war in Iraq, and Afgahnistan.

Most people in these forums and a lot of people around the world do not want to admit to this fact just because they want to keep hating the US. They blame the US because it is easier than trying to blame terrorists who don't respond to any international pressure. All of these people have no power at all against terrorists, instead they blame a country that has not been liked very much for decades for whatever reasons.


[edit on 24-6-2005 by Muaddib]