NEWS: International Poll Reveals: World favors China over USA

Originally posted by subz

Terrorism is also a direct by-product of negative views of the United States. These people are not prepared to blow themselves up because they kinda like you, kinda dont. They hate you. When polls start showing that the world is increasingly favouring the USA less and less then its logical to assume those highly pissed off people with militant tendencies will be pushed into becoming terrorists. I think thats something for Americans to worry about.
...........................
When you start to lose old friends (i.e. public sentiment in Britain, Australia, France, Germany etc) it makes your life harder. Could you survive without our support? Probably. Would your life change because of it? Drastically.

Terrorism has existed long before the US was in Iraq....and all those countries you just mentioned...all of them have been targeted by Islamic terrorists, and all of them are working their butts off trying to avert the inevitable, Islamic terrorists will continue attacking every country in the world because their main goal is to either have the world dominated by Islam, or to kill all infidels that do not accept to be converted into their religion.

Islamic extremists hate the western world, not just the US, and such extremists as Osama Bin Laden have stated this over and over. They will either convert the world into their religion, or continue killing us until either them, or us are gone from the map. Those are the facts.

If anyone went around the world trying to push their views on others, and started killing people because we did not accept to be converted into that religion it was Islamic extremists.

BTW, there has always been people from all those countries you mentioned who have hated the US, I am pretty sure their numbers are virtually the same, they are just falling for the communist propaganda believing that capitalism and the US are what brings poblems in the world.

One more thing, since quite a few people around here like to use the word NAZI quite a bit, i remember one man who also said that an entire group of people was the cause for all evil in the world... You subz, and those that think like you seem to be following dangerously the same footsteps of that monster of a man.

We were attacked by Islamic extremists, unfortunately they exist in many countries around the world, but somehow somewhere we had to take the battle to them, and as of now it has worked. They keep sending more and more of their terrorists, or insurgents, who would have commited terrorist attacks in western cities, to Iraq, to fight the coalition.

Polls and the world's opinion does not move Islamic extremists to their actions, their hatred of the west and everything it means is what drives them to commit such inhumane acts against the world.

[edit on 26-6-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Seekerof
Erm, just a short and missed question:
Why does it matter if the world favors China over the US anyhow?

Well there's one reason I can think of. These are the people that are buying (or not buying) our exports. These polls aren't taken just to show who thinks we're stinky and win arguments on blogs, they're commissioned by marketing firms and govt. trade agencies to find out WTF we can't sell our stuff anymore.

Think it doesn't affect you? We have a huge budget deficit, coupled with a growing trade deficit and that's VERY serious. There's a new way of life coming soon, enjoy the old way while it lasts.

China: deplorable human rights record. torturers.imprisonment without trial.Global spy network.
USA:deplorable human rights record.torturers.imprisonment without trail.Global spy network.

To Subz:

Finally you posted something on this topic that makes some sense.

But you still haven't explained any of your sillier comments in the face of points made by others. So I'll continue to assume you recognize that you can't. Again though, you didn't make any silly comments in your latest post. No real need to rehash old stuff.

I really do look forward to more posts like your last one.

to mythatsabigprob:

Think it doesn't affect you? We have a huge budget deficit, coupled with a growing trade deficit and that's VERY serious. There's a new way of life coming soon, enjoy the old way while it lasts.

A new way of life coming soon? Enjoy the old way while it lasts? Personally I don't care for the changes here right now. But hinting at something horrible without telling us what it is you are expecting is pointless.

Budget deficit and trade deficit don't have anything to do with popularity polls. I'm no economist, but have you drawn any correlations between previous popularity contests and our trade deficit and our budget? Seems our deficits have been growing for a long time and when they do it's the fault of our own government.

The budget problem results from domestic policy and foreign policy due to our leaders' being lap dogs for corporations. We import way more than we export don't we? I'm not sure, but isn't that what the trade deficit boils down to.

I have zero fear that anyone is going to stop buying products based on their current feelings. Is Canada going to stop buying pharmaceuticals from american companies? Is India going to stop using Windoze? Is Japan going to stop sucking up our typically pathetic pop culture offerings? Are chinese students going to stop coming to our universities and often staying for good? Are those who wear sneakers in London going to give them up because the companies are american? Are countries going to refuse products made with US crops (corn, soybeans, etc). Are Camel and Marlboro smokers going to give up smoking? Is Jack Daniels going to go out of business? Maybe. All at once or enough for long enough to signicantly change anything? I don't think so.

The trade deficit will remain until we change our own policies and stop shipping jobs and factories overseas.

And as people on the thread like Subz have pointed out, turns for the worse here affect way more than our own 290 million here. Sure, some countries won't be affected as much as others, but the western world is an ecosystem. No one lives in their own biosphere.

edit to include this: Real quickly Subz, america doesn't have the lock on being a target of terrorism. Don't want to look to far? Try Spain. Try Amsterdam.

[edit on 26-6-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

edit for spelling

[edit on 26-6-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

[edit on 26-6-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

Originally posted by 2nd Hand Thoughts
To Subz:

Finally you posted something on this topic that makes some sense.

But you still haven't explained any of your sillier comments in the face of points made by others. So I'll continue to assume you recognize that you can't. Again though, you didn't make any silly comments in your latest post. No real need to rehash old stuff.

I really do look forward to more posts like your last one.

Err...I tried to be polite and constructive. You, sir, have done your dash as far as I am concerned.

Subz, what's "done my dash" mean?

Is that some sort of put down?

as posted by mythatsabigprobe
Think it doesn't affect you? We have a huge budget deficit, coupled with a growing trade deficit and that's VERY serious. There's a new way of life coming soon, enjoy the old way while it lasts.

The personal predicitions forum is located here.
Please knock yourself out with those 'mother of all predicitions' you seem to make quite frequently.

Btw, how about start a running thread on this so-called "coming soon" change you so fondly speak of. I will gladly update it each and every day.

Again, please explain why a insignificant poll concerning this matter mean so much to so few?





seekerof

Originally posted by subz
Periwinkle Blue, the United States was content to sit back and watch Europe burn for 3 years before entering WW2. They only entered the War because Pearl Harbour was attacked. Dont come here claiming the Americans died to free Europe, that is not why they entered the war. That too was a secondary outcome for their reluctant inclusion in the second world war.

If it was truly for altruistic reasons that they entered the War dont you think they should of declared war against Germany when Britain did in 1939? Afterall Poland was burning and occupied, where was the altruistic United States of America then? Selling weapons to both sides, thats where.

Bad example Periwinkle Blue

A reminder here...Pearl Harbor was an inside job, just like 9/11, just like the sinking of the Lusitania that brought the U.S. into WWI. They knew it was going to happen and let it happen. Wars and attacks for getting people patriotic and blinded so that they don't question their governments.
And most of all, war is good for business. Never forget this fact. When countries go to war, it doesn't matter the outcome, because the winner is in debt and so is the loser. On the bankers are the winners. Bankers finance both sides of wars and reap the benefits thereof. And it doesn't matter how many people die in the process. All through history this is the case...it all goes back to the moneychangers.

Originally posted by Silcone Synapse
China: deplorable human rights record. torturers.imprisonment without trial.Global spy network.
USA:deplorable human rights record.torturers.imprisonment without trail.Global spy network.

Lets see if there is any difference in what you call deplorable human records between the US and China....

China: Executes at least 100 people each week, That would be at least 400 a month, and at least 4,800 executions a year for being pro-democratic, for trying to exercise their right to choose a religion, one that does not take the life of others. If in the US there are two-4 executions a year because these people have commited murder, every liberal in the world cries wolf and shouts their hatred to the US....

USA: Guards mistreat Korans, prisoners who have not been using the rules of war and undeer the Geneva Convention have no right as a prisoner of war, who have beheaded men and women, many of them civilians, and who keep puting bombs and killing more Iraqi civilians than coalition forces. These prisoners are subject to listening to rap music...they are naked for 48 hours, etc...not only that, but many of these prisoners probably have information that could save the lives of thousands of people.

I don't know about you but there is a big difference between the two Silcone Synapse....



[edit on 26-6-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by AlwaysLearning

A reminder here...Pearl Harbor was an inside job, just like 9/11, just like the sinking of the Lusitania that brought the U.S. into WWI. They knew it was going to happen and let it happen.

Not disagreeing or agreeing here, I only want to add two things:
#1. "Inside job" means the attack comes from within. Letting it happen with prior knowledge is more along the lines of criminal "opportunism" or conspiring via inactivity or federal conspiritorial negligence. I can't think of the right term.

It may seem like this is nitpicking (maybe it is because I think I know what you mean), but it isn't really. Inside job suggests the attack, like Pearl Harbor, was planned with Japan. That negates the fact that Japan was really attacking us based on their own desires.

#2. 9/11 sure looks like it was "let happen" and I consider that angle a possibility too. It's a popular theory on this board that can be supported with evidence, but it hasn't yet been proven in a legal manner or otherwise.

And most of all, war is good for business. Never forget this fact. When countries go to war, it doesn't matter the outcome, because the winner is in debt and so is the loser. On the bankers are the winners. Bankers finance both sides of wars and reap the benefits thereof. And it doesn't matter how many people die in the process. All through history this is the case...it all goes back to the moneychangers.

"And most of all, war is good for BUSINESS"
Ok, fair enough IMO.

"When countries go to war, it DOESN'T MATTER the outcome because the winner in debt and so is the loser."

Are you saying the outcome ultimately has only one possible benefit which is financial? Since both countries are in debt as you say are you refering to the BANKERS again as the only ones who benefit?(see below)?

"Only BANKERS are the winners."

What about public and private businesses? Halliburton...Volkswagon...Spam...stock holders.



[edit on 26-6-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

[edit on 26-6-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

Originally posted by 2nd Hand Thoughts
Not disagreeing or agreeing here, I only want to add two things:
#1. "Inside job" means the attack comes from within. Letting it happen with prior knowledge is more along the lines of criminal "opportunism" or conspiring via inactivity or federal conspiritorial negligence. I can't think of the right term.

It may seem like this is nitpicking (maybe it is because I think I know what you mean), but it isn't really. Inside job suggests the attack, like Pearl Harbor, was planned with Japan. That negates the fact that Japan was really attacking us based on their own desires.

#2. 9/11 sure looks like it was "let happen" and I consider that angle a possibility too. It's a popular theory on this board that can be supported with evidence, but it hasn't yet been proven in a legal manner or otherwise.

No, I don't think you're nitpicking there, just attempting to clarify my position, right? I know what you are trying to say, but to me its one and the same thing. Whether a government plans a job from the inside (like both invasions of Iraq and 9/11), or a government has prior advance knowledge of something devastating to its people about to happen (like Japan attacking Pearl Harbor, or the sinking of the Lusitania) and does nothing to stop it. When a government seeks to mislead the people in either of these ways in order to further its own agenda - whether it be bringing on oppressive legislation (like the Patriot Act), or going to war when there is no need and when the result will only hurt the people, you have to wonder why and you have to ask the big question - who benefits?

Who benefits....government, bankers, big business and rich stockholders of course. There is no doubt at this point in time who is benefitting from Iraq for example. Its certainly not the enlisted men and women, or the Iraqis - these are the people who are expendable.

Originally posted by AlwaysLearning

Who benefits....government, bankers, big business and rich stockholders of course. There is no doubt at this point in time who is benefitting from Iraq for example. Its certainly not the enlisted men and women, or the Iraqis - these are the people who are expendable.

I find myself in disagreement with at least portions of the above. The Iraqis do benefit from the coallition presence in Iraq. Ask the Kurds or the Shiites if you don't think so. The Baathist's (sp?) and Suni's may not think they are benefiting, but they are. Saddam and his two evil sons are now gone, women have been elevated above their prior 2nd class status, people can vote, speak out, etc. Sadly there are still many problems that require resolution, many people that don't want the status quo or the old ways to be changed, and many issues that haven't even been addressed yet. But problems are being resolved, issues are being addressed, and changes are happening that the majority of Iraqis favor. And the situation will only get better over time. Regretably there are those who say the price is too high, or the changes are taking too long. To such people I can only say be patient. If you see us going off track, tell us. Most of the time we'll listen and try to do better. If you wish things to happen faster, help us. We won't turn your help away. We are making progress, but we are only human and we make mistakes as all humans do.

[edit on 26-6-2005 by Astronomer68]

alwayslearning,

That's what I thought you meant but I've got a better picture now.

Thanks for clarifying.

Originally posted by Astronomer68

I find myself in disagreement with at least portions of the above. The Iraqis do benefit from the coallition presence in Iraq. Ask the Kurds or the Shiites if you don't think so. The Baathist's (sp?) and Suni's may not think they are benefiting, but they are. Saddam and his two evil sons are now gone, women have been elevated above their prior 2nd class status, people can vote, speak out, etc....[snip]

That's okay, you can disagree with me if you like. But before arguing the position of women in Iraq prior to the invasion, please read this, scroll down to Background: Women in Iraq.. In fact, Iraqi women had the most freedoms than any other women in the middle east. I fear you are misinformed.

If you want to argue that point, then BushCo. should have gone into Saudi Arabia long before Iraq...now that is an oppressive society - where the women have no rights whatsoever (cannot vote at all, cannot have a cellphone or drive a car without their husband's permission).

Although I agree that Saddam is a b*stard and no one is sorry he's gone or that his sons are dead, there was no justification for invading. After all, Saddam was just fine while he was doing the U.S.'s bidding. They certainly knew about the Kurds at Halabja in the 80's, they were ecstatic during the Iran/Iraq war - and even gave him satellite imagery so that he could pinpoint the location of Iranian soldiers and kill them. And the piece de resistance - they of course gave him all the chemicals he needed to make wmd. But all that was gone after the '91 invasion and they knew it. It was simply the lie that was told in order to get the American people on board with the invasion. And its not about oil either...that's just one of the perks.

I really wish some people who are obviously skewed and blinded by patriotism would stop this "The world hates us, posters hate us," silliness.

Face it, if anyone really hated America no one would do anything instead just let you guys get sold out and down the river by those in power now. However, the world does NOT hate the US - the majority just think your acting like arseholes now.

So as one friend(Despite the bushies not thinking I am their friend ) let me say this - stop acting like royal cluster's. Stop invading people and for gods sake, if you hold any reason at all, think about exactly how many coincidences have to happen before you start to think maybe it is YOU that have been snowed?

I agree that sometimes just because it walks like a duck doesn't mean it is a duck, But for Bush it is more walks like a duck, talks like a duck, has feathers like a duck, a biull like a duck, webfeet footprints like a duck and has a giant neon sign saying "HI I'm A duck".

America has many many good points, but like I was trying to say in another thread before one of my "friends" departed = just because you do nice in one thing, doesn't mean you are allowed to act like a jerk in the next.

passerby -

Whew, so that's the reason.

And to think Subz originally seemed to feel it was Dr. Phil* and the state of Connecticut.

Anyone who badmouths my boy Dr. P gets the textual beat downs.

* Dr. Phil - a silly guy from Texas with an advice show on network teevee.

Originally posted by AlwaysLearning
That's okay, you can disagree with me if you like. But before arguing the position of women in Iraq prior to the invasion, please read this, scroll down to Background: Women in Iraq.. In fact, Iraqi women had the most freedoms than any other women in the middle east. I fear you are misinformed.

I had already read that article--it's quite good. To have been absolutely accurate, I suppose I should have included the word "again," or "restoring" when bringing up the point of women's rights.

I make, nor have I made, any claim about the righteous nature of the 2nd war in Iraq. I don't believe personally, that I have enough facts at my disposal to make such a claim. The only thing I absolutely disagreed with in your post was your statement about the Iraqi's not getting any benefit out of it.

[edit on 26-6-2005 by Astronomer68]

Originally posted by Passer By
I really wish some people who are obviously skewed and blinded by patriotism would stop this "The world hates us, posters hate us," silliness.

Skewed and blinded patriotism huh?.... is that what they call it now when people want something done about terrorists, and we want to at least fight against them even if they keep coming? It wasn't us "blinded patriots" who started this whole thing btw...

One more thing, i never said "the whole world hates us"....some other people around here are the ones making these claims, and it includes you it seems according to what you state below.

Originally posted by Passer By
Face it, if anyone really hated America no one would do anything instead just let you guys get sold out and down the river by those in power now. However, the world does NOT hate the US - the majority just think your acting like arseholes now.

Really? and you are saying this because you have talked to the majority of the people in the world?..... you are basing your statement that the majority of the people in the world must think like you because of polls made to a few thousand people?....

BTW, the ones acting like arseholes (pun intended since you wanted to be smug about it by adding insults) are the liberal minded folk who only seem to want to confront terrorists with flowers and a big hug...and then proclaim that by fighting terrorists we are making things worse...when they were already worse.

Originally posted by Passer By
So as one friend(Despite the bushies not thinking I am their friend

) let me say this - stop acting like royal cluster's. Stop invading people and for gods sake, if you hold any reason at all, think about exactly how many coincidences have to happen before you start to think maybe it is YOU that have been snowed?

Invading people?.... is that what they call it now when we oust a dictator that was a threat to the US and the world and keep fighting terrorist trying to avert any attacks?.... At least we are fighting and are not sitting down waiting for Islamic extremists to attack us again.

BTW, you don't give any evidence at all but just claim that somehow you are another of the "enlightened ones" who knows the contrary to what the evidence keeps showing...

Originally posted by Passer By
I agree that sometimes just because it walks like a duck doesn't mean it is a duck, But for Bush it is more walks like a duck, talks like a duck, has feathers like a duck, a biull like a duck, webfeet footprints like a duck and has a giant neon sign saying "HI I'm A duck".

And that's your evidence?......

Originally posted by Passer By
America has many many good points, but like I was trying to say in another thread before one of my "friends" departed = just because you do nice in one thing, doesn't mean you are allowed to act like a jerk in the next.

We are jerks huh?....who is making self righteous porclamations and making smug insults and then expect us to listen to your claims because you know better, that you are an "awakened one"?....

This might be helpful at this point in time:

Who is "educating" us? Leftist-moderate-rightist-extremist-religious-anti-religious-pacifistic-xenophobic-psychotropic media?

And if you live in Canada, Mexico, UK, or wherever it is you popped out of a womb, that goes for you too.

I hate to break it to you, but ultimately you are also being fed what agrees with you leaders' policies just as much as we are here in the USA. Maybe more-so? (Well, maybe it's just France, who I suspect are angry that their new Muslim citizens won't wear the berets. )

So instead of only thinking about us poor americans who can't think for ourselves because we are being brainwashed about everything under the sun, think about this:

You're not being brainwashed too?

The funniest thing about the american attitude is that they STILL CANT UNDERSTAND why no one likes them.


Its like the school bully who cant get a date for ther prom.