Scientology a Cult?

It happens right before you fall asleep? So is it kinda like those dreams when your falling and then all of a suden wake up?

I'm not really sure. It happens to me while meditating, but in the little I have read, right before you fall asleep is one of the best times to do it. I've had those falling dreams, and I don't like them.

There's not enough time between when my head hits the pillow and dead sleep for me to try.

Speaking of which, it's that time......

Well I would try but for reason I just am scared to. Probably because I don't know what is involved and what will happen.

Originally posted by cybertroy
You really want to know what Scientology is all about, then you forget the lobsterbake, turtlebake, ratbake, or whatever non-sense and you pick up a real Scientology or Dianetics book. It will only cost a few bucks paperback. I could give you long winded explanations of what it is all about, but the books do it better than I do, plus you are getting it firsthand from the author himself.

Well, Troy, for once I have to agree with you. Wholeheartedly.

The other good thing about books is that they don't require a person to go anywhere near a Church. (There are millions of cheap used books in circulation, check Amazon and ebay just to name two examples...) Everything from reading one book out of curiosity to going "all the way" can be done outside the Church structure.

About half the "anti-" stuff in this thread is complete nonsense, and the other half relates to the Church (the organization) rather than to Scientology (the philosophy/technology).

As for xenu & clams & all that: well, I honestly don't know where it all came from. I've never encountered such things and have never heard any Scientologists discussing them. Perhaps it's from some obscure Hubbard lecture, taken out of context. Or maybe some people do "recall" such incidents, but there could be other explanations for that, and in any case these concepts aren't part of Scientology's core beliefs. Like EVERYTHING in Scientology, people are expected to evaluate for themselves and reach their own conclusions. In fact this is possibly the only "dogma" Scientology has: evaluate & decide for yourself.

It amazes me that anyone could fault that view.

Cool, Radiant Eye, we have some agreement.

Troy

You really want to know what Scientology is all about, then you forget the lobsterbake, turtlebake, ratbake, or whatever non-sense and you pick up a real Scientology or Dianetics book. It will only cost a few bucks paperback. .

Or, go to a library, skip the whole giving money to Scientology thing.

That's true, you could go to the library. That is a choice. There are also lots of things to learn within the organization as well.

Troy

I do not regard scientology as a cult, more as a new religion trying to find it's way through all of the outlandish claims and nonsense. I will always find it astounding how some people will just eat up everything they see in text on the internet. Instead of exposing their own curiousity on the religion they see some crackhead article on a website preaching that Scientologists are cultists, and then these individuals believe it. This I recommend, go to a church in your area get information from a represenative. If you can't do that, get Dianetics and read RLH's bio.

If you can't do that, go to their website: scientology.org...

At the same time, look into the claims of the critics, as well. All religions are trying to sell themselves, Christianity included. It is foolish to ask the source what they're about while not looking to the critics to see what they say at the same time. I did both before converting to Christianity, and I recommend the same to anyone thinking to convert to a different religion. It gives you a perspective on what the religion believes and spouts, and lets you know the possible weak points of that religion. If it is false, there is no point to worshipping that diety; if true, there is no point not worshipping that diety.

Originally posted by junglejake
At the same time, look into the claims of the critics, as well. All religions are trying to sell themselves, Christianity included. It is foolish to ask the source what they're about while not looking to the critics to see what they say at the same time. I did both before converting to Christianity, and I recommend the same to anyone thinking to convert to a different religion. It gives you a perspective on what the religion believes and spouts, and lets you know the possible weak points of that religion. If it is false, there is no point to worshipping that diety; if true, there is no point not worshipping that diety.

That pretty much sums it all up

"Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion"

-- L. Ron Hubbard


Mr. Hubbard then went on to create a religion.
Am I the only one who sees this, or am I missing something vital here?

Originally posted by Brittany
"Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion"

-- L. Ron Hubbard


Mr. Hubbard then went on to create a religion.
Am I the only one who sees this, or am I missing something vital here?

What you're missing is: that "quote" has never been proven. Hubbard never admitted to it and there was (allegedly) just himself and one other person present.

He was also very witty and it could have simply been a joke.

The "vital" thing is that he - somehow, some way - came up with some extremely useful stuff!

About the quote-- fair enough, I suppose. I certainly wasn't in the room to hear him speak the words.

I know I wouldn't shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars and subject myself to years of conditioning to hear some story about aliens.

Heck, I can get that for free, right here at ATS!

Originally posted by Brittany
Heck, I can get that for free, right here at ATS!

THAT'S fer sure

The thousdands of dollars thing, though, only applies if you go through the CHURCH. (More like tens of thousands...) Quite a bit can be done free (or very close to free, there's a plentiful supply of cheap used books), and the rest can be done in the freezone for a fraction of the cost.

And to the best of my recollection, there's no mention of aliens in any of Hubbard's books that I've read. (Well, except for his Mission Earth sci-fi series...

The book Have You Lived Before This Life might mention something like that, but the whole idea of past lives is presented as a theory, not as "believe this or else".

I find it interesting that so many people believe that we can't be the only senient life forms in the universe, but freak out about any mention of aliens in connection with Scientology.

It's sort of like summing up Catholicism by saying "well, you know they based their main festival - Christmas - on pagan Saturnalia celebrations". There may be a grain of truth in that, but it doesn't tell you anything you really need to know about the religion. Nor does it devalue the religion as a whole.

Hubbard once wrote something along the lines of "a person is sane to the degree they can differentiate", that is, to the degree they can perceive relative importances.

I have to think that quote was never made by Mr. Hubbard, just another pointless stab at Scientology, trying to give it a bad reputation with a flase statement.

I find it impossible that we are the only intelligent beings out there. If we are, then give me a call... You can slap my a$$ and call my Judy.

L Ron Hubbard did have a sense of humor. I would just start laughing at some of the things he said on his tapes. I don't know if he actually said the statement about making money with a religion? But you can take things out of context and make it sound bad.

If you think Scientology is bad or something, then you obviously don't understand it, and you don't understand what Scientologists are trying to do.

And, no, Scientology is not "conditioning", that belongs to Pavlov and his slobbering dog (Psychology and Psychiatry).

Read the book(s) if you want to know about Scientology.

Troy

Originally posted by stumason
Churches have lots and lots of members,

ie Roman Catholic Church = 1 billion been around for ages, ingrained in society and accpeted in Officialdom

Cult is more likely to be from a few up to maybe a few thousand, and not officially recognised and people will regard it as strnage because it is new.

But essentially, I was referring to size of the Church/cult, as the other things will slot into place if it gets big enough.

EDIT: the 2001 census in the UK proves my point. If more than 50,000 people (or something) claimed to be a Jedi, the Government would be forced to conceed it as an official religion. I put Jedi

[edit on 17/6/05 by stumason]

aa cult is defined as any number of people who worship a living human. they do whatever he or she says no matter what. usually includes a little bit of brainwashing

Let's swat down another false statement. Scientology isn't brainwashing, that practice belongs to the Psychiatry and the like. Funny how the fingers point to the folks who are actually against brainwashing. We can talk for hours about all the BS that's spread on the internet about this group or that group, or we can find out from the source. I'm going to say it again, crack open a Scientology book if you want to know what it's about. The books don't bite, and you just might find something you were looking for.

And let's crack open the pages of dictionary.com

cult:

definition 2 - A system or community of religious worship and ritual.

Worship really doesn't apply so much in Scientology. There aren't prayers to L Ron Hubbard, so Ron isn't thought of as God. But it fits close enough for this definition. So I guess just about any religious organization could be defined as a "cult." But is Scientology some secretive, brainwashing organization, full of wacko's, or whatever this damn thread is hinting at? Absolutely not!

Read the book(s).

Troy

Well, after doing a little research, I have discovered that Vistaril is NOT a "Psychiatric" medication, it is an antihistamine (like Benadryl) that also happens to work as a calming, anti-anxiety sort of medication. "Hydroxizine" (the generic chemical) is used primarliy for treatment of hives and eczema, either of which an old man could suffer from.

Are scientologists against ALL medicines, or only PSYCHIATRIC medicines? If the latter is the case, then Mr. Hubbard very well may have trusted his Dr. to prescribe something to help with his eczema.

Sorry to revive a (possibly) dead thread, but I just got back from vacation.

The whole Scientology vs. medicine thing is a bit of a red herring. It's true that Scientologists, in general, are against barbaric psychiactric practices, including the OVER use of psychiactric drugs. (And most people seem to agree that they're being OVER used...) It's possible that such drugs may be called for in certain cases for limited periods of time, perhaps for example if someone is on the verge of suicide. The difference is we KNOW there's another way. We know that it's possible to root out the SOURCE of the mental illness, therefore it makes little sense to treat the symptoms with powerful drugs and all the side-effects and problems that go with them.

Of course, for a person with severe mental illness, the road to recovery using Scientology can be long & difficult. But at least it can be done. This is more than psychiatry can claim.

As for other medications: opinions among Scientologists differ. (btw, they differ in many areas, which is stong evidence against the brainwashing theory...) It's certainly not like Jevhova's Witnesses, for example. If you break your leg, you go to the doctor and get it set. (You might wonder WHY you broke your leg...depending on how it happened, there might be something that needs to be dealt with, but you'd still go to the doctor.) If you have an infection, you get some antibiotics. If you have a headache, you might take a couple of Motrin. etc. etc.

Scientology also features some simple "assists" that can be used to help deal with minor injuries and complaints. These involve redirecting the attention away from the injured area, which isn't really a very far-fetched idea.

So Scientology isn't a replacement for traditional medicine. It can be considered "complementary", in some ways. When you raise your awareness, ability and tone level, there's an accompanying tendency toward less accidents and illness.