Masons design the streets of ...

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by moonchild
and now that i think of it. if i was a architect, or a urbanist, i sould be glad to use symbols that are dear to me in my work, and i would have a lot of fun drawing pentagrams using roads or make the top of a building like a pyramid.

And that would be very irresponsible of you for several reasons, most important of which is that you are performing a job for other people, not for yourself and therefore you have no right whatsoever to take artistic liberty with that which only means something to you and not the people you are creating it for.

Symbols for the people? Oh, you mean our own Government? Oh ok, yeah, then you're right. Because really, pentagrams and pyramids for the people :scoff: Don't be silly.

Originally posted by eudaimonia

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by moonchild
and now that i think of it. if i was a architect, or a urbanist, i sould be glad to use symbols that are dear to me in my work, and i would have a lot of fun drawing pentagrams using roads or make the top of a building like a pyramid.

And that would be very irresponsible of you for several reasons, most important of which is that you are performing a job for other people, not for yourself and therefore you have no right whatsoever to take artistic liberty with that which only means something to you and not the people you are creating it for.

Symbols for the people? Oh, you mean our own Government? Oh ok, yeah, then you're right. Because really, pentagrams and pyramids for the people :scoff: Don't be silly.

What the hell are you talking about?!?!? What the damn hell do you think I was trying to say in my last post? Your reply makes no sense whatsoever.

I was telling moonchild that it would be irresponsible for ANYONE to take artistic liberty for a public job, or a job for anyone else. If they were to insert symbols or whatever into the work, it should be something meaningful to the people for which the job is being performed, and not for the worker himself. Based on that I am saying that it would be wrong if a mason were to hide symbols in a public work such as streets of Washington DC.

What the hell did you think I was talking about? Please make sure you understand a post before replying to it, smart guy.


[edit on 21-8-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by eudaimonia

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by moonchild
and now that i think of it. if i was a architect, or a urbanist, i sould be glad to use symbols that are dear to me in my work, and i would have a lot of fun drawing pentagrams using roads or make the top of a building like a pyramid.

And that would be very irresponsible of you for several reasons, most important of which is that you are performing a job for other people, not for yourself and therefore you have no right whatsoever to take artistic liberty with that which only means something to you and not the people you are creating it for.

Symbols for the people? Oh, you mean our own Government? Oh ok, yeah, then you're right. Because really, pentagrams and pyramids for the people :scoff: Don't be silly.

What the hell are you talking about?!?!? What the damn hell do you think I was trying to say in my last post? Your reply makes no sense whatsoever.

I was telling moonchild that it would be irresponsible for ANYONE to take artistic liberty for a public job, or a job for anyone else. If they were to insert symbols or whatever into the work, it should be something meaningful to the people for which the job is being performed, and not for the worker himself. Based on that I am saying that it would be wrong if a mason were to hide symbols in a public work such as streets of Washington DC.

What the hell did you think I was talking about? Please make sure you understand a post before replying to it, smart guy.


[edit on 21-8-2005 by sebatwerk]

The point is the symbols we currently have layed out on D.C. are NOT meaningful.

Understand?

Originally posted by eudaimonia
The point is the symbols we currently have layed out on D.C. are NOT meaningful.

Understand?

Yet you still have no way of proving that they are in fact symbols, do you?

I mean, do you see the point here?!? You REALLY need to stop ASSUMING that all these things you believe in are "facts". They are no such thing, only assumptions on your part, supported by assumptions from other conspiracy theorists. Sadly, nobody has any proof to put forward, only assumptions on top of assumption.

[edit on 22-8-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by eudaimonia
The point is the symbols we currently have layed out on D.C. are NOT meaningful.

Understand?

Yet you still have no way of proving that they are in fact symbols, do you?

I mean, do you see the point here?!? You REALLY need to stop ASSUMING that all these things you believe in are "facts". They are no such thing, only assumptions on your part, supported by assumptions from other conspiracy theorists. Sadly, nobody has any proof to put forward, only assumptions on top of assumption.

[edit on 22-8-2005 by sebatwerk]

THINK sebatwerk. There really isn't any other way to PROVE this, other than having the D.C. map in front of us. We definitely have a totally different set of EYES, but I DO SEE IT. What are the ODDS of having the streets and point locations exactly alligned with a point inverted pentagram? WHAT ARE THE ODDS OF MATCHING IT PERFECTLY?

Originally posted by eudaimonia
THINK sebatwerk. There really isn't any other way to PROVE this, other than having the D.C. map in front of us. We definitely have a totally different set of EYES, but I DO SEE IT. What are the ODDS of having the streets and point locations exactly alligned with a point inverted pentagram? WHAT ARE THE ODDS OF MATCHING IT PERFECTLY?

This topic has been discussed in SEVERAL threads, and it has been established that not only is the "pentagram" not a perfect shape, but that there are other reasons for its existence other than pure symbolism.

By the way, having the DC map in front of us would PROVE nothing, only assist in further speculation.

[edit on 22-8-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by eudaimonia
THINK sebatwerk. There really isn't any other way to PROVE this, other than having the D.C. map in front of us. We definitely have a totally different set of EYES, but I DO SEE IT. What are the ODDS of having the streets and point locations exactly alligned with a point inverted pentagram? WHAT ARE THE ODDS OF MATCHING IT PERFECTLY?

This topic has been discussed in SEVERAL threads, and it has been established that not only is the "pentagram" not a perfect shape, but that there are other reasons for its existence other than pure symbolism.

By the way, having the DC map in front of us would PROVE nothing, only assist in further speculation.

[edit on 22-8-2005 by sebatwerk]

Who conducted this serious investigation? Who established that the "not perfect shape" as fact? And how?

What other reasons can YOU give me other than pure symbolism?

Sorry, but when the CIA is being linked with Satanism, red flags go up when I do the research on the D.C. Street Symbols.

Originally posted by eudaimonia
Who conducted this serious investigation? Who established that the "not perfect shape" as fact? And how?

What other reasons can YOU give me other than pure symbolism?

Sorry, but when the CIA is being linked with Satanism, red flags go up when I do the research on the D.C. Street Symbols.

Did I ever say it was a "serious investigation", or say any of it was fact? Or did I simply say what was discussed in these threads? If not, why do you twist my words and claim something I did not say? Don't do that again.

Two very good reason that were established regarding the "pentagram" is actually that Pierre L'Enfant, who designed the streets, was enamoured with Paris' broad, diagonal avenues and adopted them for his design in DC. Another reason is that the diagonal avenues enabled defense of the city by allowing sightlines out of the city from any central part of it within.

Both of these can be found in Wikipedia's article of Washington DC.

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by eudaimonia
Who conducted this serious investigation? Who established that the "not perfect shape" as fact? And how?

What other reasons can YOU give me other than pure symbolism?

Sorry, but when the CIA is being linked with Satanism, red flags go up when I do the research on the D.C. Street Symbols.

Did I ever say it was a "serious investigation", or say any of it was fact? Or did I simply say what was discussed in these threads? If not, why do you twist my words and claim something I did not say? Don't do that again.

Two very good reason that were established regarding the "pentagram" is actually that Pierre L'Enfant, who designed the streets, was enamoured with Paris' broad, diagonal avenues and adopted them for his design in DC. Another reason is that the diagonal avenues enabled defense of the city by allowing sightlines out of the city from any central part of it within.

Both of these can be found in Wikipedia's article of Washington DC.

Fine, it wasn't a serious investigation.


Observe the following diagrams below and tell me if any of these points are true and give reasons why it isn't (if i hear gullible/crazy/ignorant i'll cast a spell on you

) :

1) D.C. Symbols are visable and easily identifiable
2) D.C. Symbols were designed intentionally (knowing the meaning and power that it has behind it)
3) D.C. Symbols are linked with the Satanism or Ancient History/Deity/Literature/Sacred Geometry/Magic
3) D.C. Symbols were designed to create energy/vibrational fields (people who have been to D.C. do report feeling "uneasy")
4) D.C. Symbols are not for the people, but as an agenda and TOOL for the Government to conjure up black/negative energy to further their agenda
5) D.C. Symbols agenda is for/to __________ fill in the gap yourself. But I'll tell you this, if someone thinks it's for the good of this country, think again.

---------------


>As with the City of London after the Great Fire of 1666, the new city of Washington DC was designed according to these laws. Symbols, shapes and angles generate different energies and if you understand these principles you can vibrate the energy field of a place to the vibrational range you deem most suitable for what you wish to achieve there. Anyone living or working within that field will be affected by it. You can also focus solar and other astrological energies in that place.



>I found Washington one of the most unpleasant energies I have ever encountered outside the Square Mile in the City of London. A French Freemason, Major Pierre Charles L'Enfant, was engaged to create the new Washington, and his work was based on plans officially prepared by leaders like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington, although others with greater esoteric understanding would have been the real architects..



>Capitol Hill, named after the sacred place of the Roman secret societies called Capitoline Hill. It was no surprise, therefore, that the United States Secretary of State, Madeleine Albright, the high priestess of American politics, should make a pilgrimage to Capitoline Hill on her first official visit to Europe after her appointment.




>Capitol Hill is not a political building, it is a temple to the Satanic Brotherhood and underneath its St Paul's dome is a crypt room. Beneath the floor of the crypt, marked by a pentagram star, is a vacant tomb.



>Within the Washington street plan, centred on Capitol Hill and the White House, are astrological symbols (which relate exactly to where certain constellations appear in the sky), hexagrams, Satanic pentagrams, squares, a Masonic compass, a Spear of Destiny, a skull and bones and scores of others.



>For more information and illustrations I strongly recommend an excellent book by Charles L. Westbrook Jr called The Talisman Of The United States, Signature Of The Invisible Brotherhood.




>Roads and key buildings in Washington relate to the points where the Sun rises at the winter and summer solstice, just as the ancient mounds, temples and stone circles like Stonehenge, were designed to. Other streets cross at precisely 33 degrees and still others mark the precession of the equinoxes, and there is a hexagram or Star of David.



>How interesting that when I was looking at a map of Washington I found that the roads within the grounds of the Congress Building make the very clear symbol of an owl!



>Similar Satanic pentagrams can be identified in the street plan of Rome, the old city of Jerusalem, the land around Rennes-le-Chateau in Southern France so beloved of the Knights Templar, the pyramid site at Giza, and no doubt over London and other cities and sites. Across the Potomac River from Washington is the home of the United States military - the Pentagon Building which was aligned to the constellation of Taurus. A pentagon, of course, is the centre of a pentagram.

Eudaimonia what exactly are you referring to in the picture of London. All I can see is the inner circle of Regents Park, and the layout of Kensington Palace. Now I know that there was talk that that Sir Christopher Wren and Nicholas Hawksmoor had leanings towards recreating Solomon's temple, but to my knowledge neither had anything to do with Regents Park, and Hawksmoor only helped design the Orangery at Kensington Palace, not the layout of the buildings, so there can hardly be any malign masonic influence here.

People have said that Wren wanted to rebuild London after the Great Fire in a pattern that would have been similar to Washington and Paris which were built later. London developed as a cramped and overcrowded city throughout the medieval ages. The possibilty of having wide avenues and large open space would have been appealing to anyone, despite whatever symbology people would wish to read into it. However there was one slight problem. As soon as the fire settled down people laid out the lines of the old streets so as to claim their old plots of land. King Charles II was not going to kick all these poor guys off their land after all their property had burnt down so now grand plan for London was realised.

Anyone who has seen a Hawksmoor church would be able to talk of the foreboding atmosphere of these buildings. They are very impressive hunks of stone. The six famous Hawksmoor churches in London were built as part of the church building programme after the fire. At the time there was a strong desire to move away from the percieved pomp of catholicism, and the church were intended to hark towards a more pure version of christianity. To this end Hawksmoor tired to recreate the look, feel and atmosphere of early christian churches. In the early days of christianity there were no desgns for churches, and christians had to cannibalise old roman temples, and Hawksmoor followed suit.

There has been much talk that these churches are aligned in a mysterious way; particularly in the graphic novel From Hell by Alan Moore. However, if you read the back of this book Moore describes where he got the information for this. It was from a book of poetry by Iain Sinclair; Ludgate and Suicide Bridge, which contains a map of the links. As far as I remember some of the points and correlations on the map correspond to personal experiences that Sinclair had, whcih can hardly be due to masonic influnce. At the time he made up the map Sinclair was a local authority caretaker who looked after the grounds of these churches. Peter Ackroyd picked up this idea and ran with it in his novel Hawksmoor. I remember somewhere therie being a tale that Hawksmoor was particularly annoyed that one of his churches, St George's in the East I think, not being aligned correctly, and all for the matter of a few yards, If anyone can confirm this I would be grateful.

With regads to the picture of Nelson's tomb and St Pauls I believe that you are confusing Capitol Hill with the cathedral in London. Nelson was a great hero to Britain, and he personally helped stop the advance of Napolean's dream of a united europe under Napolean. As I recall was not Napolean a key figure in French masonry? Therefore would it not be a bit rude to celebrate a man who helped stop the plans of a mason, in a masonically influenced cathedral? Also I do not believe the tomb is empty, and Nelson was only entombed there in 1805, many years after the completion of St Pauls.

Nelson was given a state funeral and entombment in St. Paul's Cathedral. He was laid to rest in a wooden coffin made from the mast of L'Orient which had been salvaged after the Battle of the Nile. - en.wikipedia.org...


It is not for no reason that Sinclair and Ackroyd are known as the leading psycho-geographers of London. Basically any interpretation of London's layout is joing to be subjective. It will all depend on how you wish to view it. I was trained as a scienitst and one of the first lessons I learnt was that if you put enough data points on a graph you will find patterns everywhere, but in objective reality these patterns will not exist. The key point is not to look at the points with a patten already devised in your head, but to let one appear to you, that would also appear to other people.

It appears that most people on this forum have preconceived ideas about masonry etc, and that many are diametrically opposed. I am sure that if we could find a person who had no preconcieved ideas, a blank canvass effectively, he/she would see that both sides of these arguments have merits, and would not be able to decide between them In this world there is not only black and white, but a hell of a lot of grey.

ps Has anyone seen the BBC2 documentary about the masonic design of the English town of Bath. It was hosted by Daniel Cruickshank and was very well put together.

[edit on 22-8-2005 by 23spy]

All I see is a map with someone's drawing of mystical symbols on top of it. Anybody can do that with any map. You can also take a map of D.C., draw a picture of a kangaroo on it and say, see, Washington D.C. must have been designed by Australians.

These conspiracy folks just get sillier and sillier....

Kudos to spy23 and eudaimonia. I for one around here like detailed posts.

Unfortunately, it seems to be a pattern that SOME "masons" of a certain nature flock to any such post like pigs to slop and will reply to detailed posts with original messages like, "I don't see nuthin' boss". It's like watching COPS..."It's not my weed officer. Never seen it before." Just because some didn't want to entertain the idea of looking at the CG art until the 3D image popped out at them didn't mean that it wasn't there.

Also, get ready for a certain purported 32 degree mason who loves to use wikipedia as a sole sorce for dismissing anything deeper than what is only listed on that still incredibly unrelilable website. This mason of many years HAD TO BE informed by me, not a mason but someone with a library card and a brain, that there was a pentagram on George Washington's masonic apron YEARS before any design for Capital City was even scribbled out on a chalkboard.

The "discussion" was motivation for a pentagram in Washington DC which is a topic that need not be biased in one direction or the other. Instead of getting an "OK. That could explain some motivation" I got an 'I (a 32 degree "mason" remember) DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THAT'. There's a head scratcher for sure. "To the end of the line", I say. "And try not to read so much wikipedia. It doesn't qualify for thesis research and it shouldn't here either. Do all "masons" study masonic history at wikipedia?

Also, I especially like the kangaroo chap. I've got an atlas here and there ain't many urban cities with extra-wide diagonal avenues with rotundas and memorials at their strategic intersections. Isometric designs in parks and lawns? Notice not one example of a specific city with a specific design was offered in the kangaroo post? Maybe I should be surprised by this?

Don't waste your time with those who "don't see nuthin". They must be blinded by the light. Or they think childish roadblocks can thwart honest attempts at thoughtful and interesting discussion.



[edit on 27-8-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

In the realm of government, politics, war, and power there are no coincidences. I am quite convinced of that. When they stack up by the dozens, like in the case of JFK and 911 and the layout of some power centers... the sheer number of 'coincidences' is very hard to dismiss. It could all be just a fluke, and the designers and leaders of the country at that time didn't mean to do anything of the sort. Well, the number of them who were masons was very considerable, and, well, the geometry itself is hard to argue, being so visible to anyone who wants to look. But just like so many other times, we are being told that the experts in the field, the establishment, the majority, agree it was just a series of flukes... again. What would a bookie set the odds at that all that stuff is just coincidence?
That will tell you the answer.

Sorry guys, New link to the images:

ronan.locias.com...

Masons designed and built Canberra the capital of Australia..

This thread has simply degenerated into bickering and accusations against other members.