UFO's and aliens do not exist

I don't have to put faith in the existence of UFOs because I know they exist; I have seen them! On more than one occassion I have witnessed UFOs with other people present who also witnessed them. The Bible defines faith as a belief in things not seen whereas my belief is based on what I have actually seen and experienced.

I would think that one who is so sure of the existance of aliens would have so much more to offer us than a angrily written snippet protesting your eyewitness account of a UFO. I would like to see the picture you took of it or the video of that craft, that could ONLY have been a UFO from another planet.

Someone wrote earlier that today one would expect to look up in the sky and SEE something. On most accounts I would gander that we cant explain 70% of the things we see today, and we KNOW that there are strange things flying around (mostly from someones military or debris or any sorts of things.)

The reason there are so many accounts of UFO's are because the term UFO can apply to anything. I have seen a UFO. Hardly did I think that it came from outside Earth. It was just something that I for one reason or another could not tell what it was. The angle of the craft, my perspective, or just the speed of the plane (most likely) hindered my ability to make a good judgement as to what it could be. But aliens on a stroll, Naaahhhhh!!

And I think that its just as arrogant to think that there HAS to be life else where! The arguement that Life is bountiful throughout the cosmos because of its infinetness is just as arrogant. There have been A Lot of people throughout the course of mankind here on Earth and no two people have the same fingerprints. Hell, there have never been the same two people. There are many firsts. Maybe we are a FIRST.

Maybe life IS SUCH a gift that we are blessed with it and not a cosmic event that takes place on every rock with an atmoshere and water that orbits a star. Now.... that should make you feel special to be special. 1 out of infinte is truly a remarkable gift to me! And I have yet to see or hear anything that would make me think otherwise.

You all need a hug from your mothers! You are special not a random thing!

Originally posted by CrossBone
I would think that one who is so sure of the existance of aliens would have so much more to offer us than a angrily written snippet protesting your eyewitness account of a UFO.

My reply wasn't angrily written as I bear no animosity toward you. I am more than able to hear a different opinion from my own w/o getting upset about it.

I would like to see the picture you took of it or the video of that craft, that could ONLY have been a UFO from another planet.

I never said that I had taken a photo of the craft that I observed, only that there is a vast amount of photographic and video evidence taken by others who have had the same type of experience.

And I think that its just as arrogant to think that there HAS to be life else where! The arguement that Life is bountiful throughout the cosmos because of its infinetness is just as arrogant.

I did not say that life HAD to exist elsewhere, only that it was logical to assume so scientifically and because I don't like to limit what the Creator
could have done or what He should have done. I also don't believe that you have to be an atheist or agnostic to be a scientist or to believe in the
probability of life somewhere other than Earth.

Maybe life IS SUCH a gift that we are blessed with it and not a cosmic event that takes place on every rock with an atmoshere and water that orbits a star. Now.... that should make you feel special to be special. 1 out of infinte is truly a remarkable gift to me! And I have yet to see or hear anything that would make me think otherwise.

You all need a hug from your mothers! You are special not a random thing!

Life is a gift and we are blessed and the number of worlds with viable atmospheres and water revolving around viable stars are very rare, relatively speaking . I have never believed that life was random. I don't find it difficult at all to be both a Christian and believe in the existance or possible existance of other intelligent life in the universe. IMHO proving that existance would make my faith in God stronger not weaker.

seeker

Wow, so many responses already, this is great! I feel like I really stirred the pot and that makes me happy. Let me start off by saying I value everyones opinion and believe in being open minded and hearing every option. Everyone has brought up great points but I would like respond to a few comments, first of all I don't think everyone here fully read or understood everything I said.

I said Aliens and UFO's don't exist, then I went on to say that I believed in intelligent life elseware in the universe and that unidentified flying objects existed but they did not belong to aliens. An alien is defined by his location, A "visistor" is an alien but there aren't any. I don't see how this is contradictory and if you pay attention you will understand what I am saying. I don't think the voyager probes are bad examples at all, escape velocity is 25K mph and orbital velocity is 18K mph, we know we can reach this and even apollo 11 was only traveling at about 6K mph on it's way to the moon. Voyager has been traveling at 38,000 mph this is no where near light speed but still very fast eveny by todays standards. Even if we could pull off 10 times faster than this it's not even in the same ballpark as light speed which is 670 million mph.

To get to the closest place with possible "aliens" you would realisticaly need to travel at or faster than the speed of light and that my friends is possible, mark my words, einstein spent a good portion of his life proving this. It would take an infinite amount of energy to do this with matter and that is just impossible. Not impossible for a photon that has no mass but impossible for a space ship. Theoretical physics is exactly that "theoretical" it means we don't understand something yet and so we sort of guessed. I refuse to believe anything that hasn't been proven as fact and so does the entire science community. THeories don't hold any more water than santa clause and I'm sorry to break that to some of you. Why is it so hard to accept that other world's are to far away for anything to bother visiting yet people beleive a story someone told that doesn't have any credible evidence?

People see and hear lots of things and even just a 1000 years ago people really believed in dragons and sea monsters. People believe what they want to believe, that in itself is faith and religion, science doesn't need faith it has methods and facts to back everything up. I completely with crossbone, why so secret? There is no good reason for us to not know about it and we will all gain as a species by having visitors
but the truth is it just hasn't happened.

THe great part of freedom and democracy is that people are allowed to believe what they want
but what it also means is that they are free to be ignorant, just because someone says something it true doesn't make it true, only facts show proof. Until an alien parks his ship on my front lawn, hops out and says "howdy" I just won't believe but I am looking foreward to more opinions, thanks everyone!



EDIT: Editted by the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Paragraphs

[edit on 4-6-2005 by Gazrok]

No matter how far we look into the universe we always see the same thing! That is that all matter organizes itself in the same fashion.

Look at a model of an atom , it looks alot like the model of a solar system.

Look at a model of a star system , it looks alot like a model of a Galaxcy.

The difference being the scale.

If we look at Earth we see that life is everywhere we look for it ! Deep in the crust of the Earth , under un-imaginable heat and pressure , deprived of Oxygen, all the up to the tip of Mt. Everest, and even in the atmosphere!

To think this complex chemical reaction we call Life , does not occure in the rest of the Galaxcy , or the Universe , would be counter intuitive to what we actually observe in the Universe.

[edit on 3-6-2005 by lost_shaman]

sorry but I think Einstien was and is totally wrong about "time" if the velocity of light travels over x distance in y time, then thats how long it takes. "time" itself does not exist, therefore it can not exist in two seperate states, one being that of the object travelling at light speed and the other for an object travelling in its normal terrestrial state.

if it takes a beam of light 10 light years to travel from point A to point B then it takes 10 light years. The duration of "time" passed is the same on earth as it is "in" the object traveling at the speed of light. The only variable is the distance travelled.

A light year is only a measure of distance that a beam of light will travel in one earth year.

Therefore you can not travel for 10 years yet only experience a fraction of that time, as you would therefore only cover the distance equal to that fraction of time.

Therefore Einstien was wrong, since there is no "time" it can not therefore exist in two seperate states as "time" itself does not exist.

"time" is merely a frame of reference conceived by man to connect two or more consequential events. And is not a parameter in the universal law.

Ie gravity is not dependant on time, the force of gravity is not greater right now, then say a few minutes ago. While gravity may change due to the mass of the solar object changing, this is not a function of "time" as us recording the "time" of such event only merely gives us a marker that something has changed at that point in-relationship to another point, whether past, future or present. "time" itself can place no effect in the physical world of the universe.

Getting older is not because "time" has made you look older, but rather the rate of cellular division has slowed causing the net losses in skin cells, motor control, neural receptor growth etc. This is caused by the exposure to x-rays, cosmic rays. radiation, pollutants, food carcinegians etc. "time" did not cause these changes and again is only a human conception developed to mark events.

If an alien race has detached themselves from this concept of time and focused on understanding how their own biology works and manipulated said biology to the point that they could retain, change or alter the growth and regeneration of specific cellular systems then "time" would be irrelevant in regards to space travel. They could theoretically travel for thousands of years, maybe even on autopilot with an automated system navigating their space craft at speeds maybe only half c. An altered state of suspension could support them until they reach a gate point, for them to take measurements or whatever their mission might be.

Maybe there is an entire civilization that just exists, never dying or never replicating. Death only comes from accidents where it is impossible to retain the neurological center of the being. Such as being blown up or having the brain(s) destroyed. All other events might be recoverable, lost limb, bullet wound, organ trauma, burn damage maybe all of these could be readily fixed. Running your spaceship into a piece of space rock at 50,000 mph might not be recoverable, etc.

So any argument that use "time" as a constraint on whether or not something is possible in the universe is really just misguided and not thought out in the big picture.

IMO advanced alien races do exist, they COULD have found us either in the past or currently, but I have no concrete proof without a doubt that I can say that they have. There is plenty of convincing evidence to persuade me that something odd is happening with mankind, or interacting with it in such a way that leads some people to believe it is the work of a higher power. But I have yet to have hard concrete fact that little grey or green alien men have come here to mutilate our cows and steal our children.

Have we had encounters with "alien" un-inhabited probes, 100% without a doubt. Do we know where they came from or if they got back to report in their findings, or maybe they like our own probes send data back consitantly to home, I dont think we have any idea.........

And there it is, YES, they exist, who they are, what they are, where they are coming from......... we just don't know.

Originally posted by robertfenix
sorry but I think Einstien was and is totally wrong about "time" if the velocity of light travels over x distance in y time, then thats how long it takes. "time" itself does not exist, therefore it can not exist in two seperate states, one being that of the object travelling at light speed and the other for an object travelling in its normal terrestrial state.

if it takes a beam of light 10 light years to travel from point A to point B then it takes 10 light years. The duration of "time" passed is the same on earth as it is "in" the object traveling at the speed of light. The only variable is the distance travelled.

A light year is only a measure of distance that a beam of light will travel in one earth year.

Therefore you can not travel for 10 years yet only experience a fraction of that time, as you would therefore only cover the distance equal to that fraction of time.

Therefore Einstien was wrong, since there is no "time" it can not therefore exist in two seperate states as "time" itself does not exist.

"time" is merely a frame of reference conceived by man to connect two or more consequential events. And is not a parameter in the universal law.

Robertfenix,

How do you figure Einstien got it all wrong? Thats a bold statement to make!

Time , of course it exists! Time is the variable that makes the 4th Deminsion, the 4th Deminsion, we live in the 4th Deminsion!

Of course from Earth light will take ten years to travel 10 Light years. But if you are Traveling at half the speed of light , light still Travels away from you at 300,000 km/s. The light isn't traveling away from you at 450,000 km/s, becuase it is time thats relative!

Ie gravity is not dependant on time, the force of gravity is not greater right now, then say a few minutes ago. While gravity may change due to the mass of the solar object changing, this is not a function of "time" as us recording the "time" of such event only merely gives us a marker that something has changed at that point in-relationship to another point, whether past, future or present. "time" itself can place no effect in the physical world of the universe.

Gravity alters time, its not dependant on time.

Getting older is not because "time" has made you look older, but rather the rate of cellular division has slowed causing the net losses in skin cells, motor control, neural receptor growth etc. This is caused by the exposure to x-rays, cosmic rays. radiation, pollutants, food carcinegians etc. "time" did not cause these changes and again is only a human conception developed to mark events.

Time can be measured by the spin of an atom, less spinning less reactions take place . Its reactions ,and subsequent degradation to your cells that cause aging. If time stopped completly no reactions would occure between matter at all!

Originally posted by supergenius74
(...)
Why is it so hard to accept that other world's are to far away for anything to bother visiting yet people beleive a story someone told that doesn't have any credible evidence? People see and hear lots of things and even just a 1000 years ago people really believed in dragons and sea monsters. People believe what they want to believe, that in itself is faith and religion, science doesn't need faith it has methods and facts to back everything up. I completely with crossbone, why so secret? There is no good reason for us to not know about it and we will all gain as a species by having visitors
but the truth is it just hasn't happened.
(...)

I agree with you on dragons, see monsters and so on. I agree that science and religion don't work in the same way. I agree with you that we would gain in having visitors.

I don't agree though on the fact that we didn't have visitors. You seem to believe that physics as we know it now is the limit, and that it is not possible to travel that far easily and/or economically and/or in short time...

So, let me return the question to you: why is it so hard to accept that we don't know a lot yet and that it is highly likely to be possible in our future?

(...)THe great part of freedom and democracy is that people are allowed to believe what they want
but what it also means is that they are free to be ignorant, just because someone says something it true doesn't make it true, only facts show proof. Until an alien parks his ship on my front lawn, hops out and says "howdy" I just won't believe but I am looking foreward to more opinions, thanks everyone!

Weirdly enough, people do that...

Everyone believes by reading it in the news that a kid was born with 3 legs in that country, or that a bunch of kids destroyed 175 cars doing 1 million of euros in damage, because they wanted to play (true story, it happened in France recently).

But then, you place a sign "wet paint" on a freshly painted bench in the park, and everyone will pass their finger on it to see if it's true...

Well obviously you haven't heard of the hyperspace transport ring. This baby can get ya anywhere in minutes.

www.geocities.com...

Originally posted by The Nacum

www.geocities.com...

You know if i can get one of these on Ebay, ahh nevermind ill look for my self.If ebay has a vigin mary pretzel that sold for Ten grand they got ot have one of those.Oh yeah any body want to buy some ancient pyramid shaped Doritos, Ive got two left bidding start at nintey-nine dollars!!.

First of all, Supergenius, say it with me... Paragraphs.

Just every once and a while hit the enter key a couple of times. It just makes it easier to read for everyone.

THe great part of freedom and democracy is that people are allowed to believe what they want but what it also means is that they are free to be ignorant,

Ok, I am right with you here.

just because someone says something it true doesn't make it true, only facts show proof.

Ahh, but 'facts' are simply what someone else has decided they are. You are told 'the grass is green' and that becomes a fact. The choice with UFOs is mostly based on how many honest people exist in the world. Unless you see almost everyone as basically dishonest then what you are left with are a bunch of very solid events.

Until an alien parks his ship on my front lawn, hops out and says "howdy" I just won't believe but I am looking foreward to more opinions, thanks everyone!

Ok, that is a safe course, but it does ignore a lot of people that I think are worth listening to. There are very specific reasons why the public does not know everything but part of the process is being able to ask the questions. Showing we are ready by evolving from the 'what if' stage to the 'what comes next' stage is quite possibly part of that.


A.T
(-)


[edit on 6/4/05 by Alexander Tau]

Originally posted by Distortion

The closer to c (light speed) that you get, the slower time passes. So for the observer on Earth the trip would take 50 years( not thousands) , but for you (the one making the trip) time would be passing more slowly the closer to c(L-Speed) you got. So the trip wouldn't take the traveler 50 years , but maybe 4 or 5 years ( depending on how long it takes you to reach close to c , and how long it takes you to slow back down.)

correct me if i'm wrong but I dont think it works like this. Say you set the guy off in a space ship and there is another person on earth, they both have watches that are ticking simultaneously upon take off. Say you could see both watches somehow when the space ship has a velocity of almost C. From your point of view the watch would be going slower than that of the the watch on earth. However, if you're sitting on the space ship your watching is still ticking at the same rate, time has not slowed down for you from your perspective, the earth watch is ticking faster. But say your going to somewhere 10 light years away, traveling at .999999 C. Its still going to take you a little over 10 years on the space ship. Right? Oh man i think i've confused myself now. This doesn't seem right.

I understand your confusion, Distortion, it's very nonintuitive and non-comonsensical. Heres a link to a interactive tutorial on relativity and time travel/space travel. Check it out, it's kind of fun and really informative. Tell me what you think.

www.pbs.org...

Seeker

THE UNIVRSE IS TOO BIG THATS THE PROBLEM

thats the key, the odds arent against us, there are too many numbers for the odds to be against us, you have to add the odds of a race having the technology to move across galaxy, there are too many numbers to throw that possibility out.

please will you give me some quick facts of why aliens dont excist i really need them for english at school

please will you give me some quick facts of why aliens dont excist i really need them for english at school

I'm fully with Gazrok on this, and must state that due to the ENORMITY of threads refuting the 'they can't get here from there' argument in the past few weeks, that the OP should really be participating in one of those threads.

Be that as it may, in reading the Original Post, it seems you spent 761 words saying basically:

"They can't get here from there".

It's a ridiculous argument, based upon the ethnocentric (meant to read: Humancentric) standpoint of current human capabilities.

And when considering the distances involved (clearly you comprehend to some extent the largeness of the universe) you must also factor time into the equation. This is a mistake often made by those who choose to rely upon the 'they can't get here from there' argument. Not only are 'they' very far away, but 'they' could be not just hundreds, not just thousands, but MILLIONS of years ahead of us in their evolutionary process.

A type two civilization could get here from there. Even those (in the mainstream scientific community) who doubt that 'they' HAVE gotten 'here', understand that a civilization with enough time to evolve COULD get here from there.

Many mechanisms have been proposed that could allow a species to travel thus. Some of them are listed and detailed in the thread: Thoughts on Exotic Propulsion, which can be found using the ATS Search function.

-WFA

Robert there is such thing as time. It started when the universe was created. Time is the reason why science knows that the universe was created and didnt always exist. Without time everything would happen at once. Because for there to be no time there would be an infinite amount of time before us and we would never be able to get to the point we are now.

[edit on 15-5-2008 by SixthDream]

What exactly is he trying to say about Santa Claus?

Of course they don't look into the mirror and look through a telescope at the sun and tell me what you see?

if youve been a skeptic for 30 years now and you've made it all this way to the end of this thread ...im sure you can see that most people try to so you in a subtle manner why they think you should concider the fact that they are already here..if i were to say anything to you in hopes to persuade you i would suggest you start with crop circles and cattlemutilations and i mean really really trying to delve into the matter..the direct approach of seeing UFOs and abductions is like fantasy to you..

on that note i want to contradict myself and say, please dont even get involved with the ufo phenomina, once the media starts coming out with more reports, just ignore it, and when the us and other 1st world and 2nd world and 3rd world coutries start to disclose the evidence for you just turn a blind eye..cause thats what your good at.

BUT PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE dont ignore the fact that our EARTH is in dire need of people who want to help improve the environment. that will be your advise from me.

Well I believe that they are not from our Dimension, so what we know from miles maybe just maybe in there realm or Dimension Distances are shorter.