"Masonic" Handshakes and Other Nonsense...

Good try !

You wouldn't want me to stray the heard so to speak.

But not so easy- Lets finish what we have started.

Christian God- God /Creator, Jesus/Sacrafice, Holy Spirit/ Spirit of Truth - that resides in whom ever accepts Jesus Christ as his own personal savior and walks and talks the faith as a christian. The God that is not Tolerant of any other religion or faith.

Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. ( Not by budda, allah or any other including the masonry deceit )

Jer 2:23 How canst thou say, I am not polluted, I have not gone after Baalim? see thy way in the valley, know what thou hast done: [thou art] a swift dromedary traversing her ways;

Mar 8:27 And Jesus went out, and his disciples, into the towns of Caesarea Philippi: and by the way he asked his disciples, saying unto them, Whom do men say that I am? ( Budda, allah, cows elephants etc..... The Masons say the God that is tolerant and accepts other gods. Because in Masonry you must take the oath.

Freemasonry teaches that there is one God and men of (ALL RELIGIONS ) and they worship that one God using a variety of different names. ( NOT JESUS ) In a Masonic Lodge, all join in corporate prayer to the Great Architect of the Universe, (GAOTU). THIS IS NOT the God of Christianity !

This is a fairy tale god- Occultic god, Paganistic god, god of deception.

The Masonry God- Of Whom you must aknowledge, worship, pray, honor or what ever you would like to call it as you take the "OATH OF MASONRY".

You do remeber that don't you ? Should we say it together ?

By taking the oath you have in fact seperated yourself from the ONE TRUE GOD of Christianity.

The Masons on this site have also said that Feemasonry is not a religion nor a church ? This is a LIE ! yet the church has their own faith statment, systems and it's own bible ? Who New ?

Lets look at a theology from the Masonic Bible:

MASONIC SALVATION- "a saving of the soul; deliverance from sin and from punishment for sin."

Reference: On page 26 of this Heirloom Masonic bible. The Heirloom Bible Publishers, Wichita, Kansas, publishes a Master Reference Edition of the Holy Bible, King James Version, exclusively for Freemasonry. Why ?

This is not the same salvation as described by GOD in the Christian Bible. Why the conflict ?

This my friends is called deceit:

ANOTHER DECEIT:

Did you know that the words below were taken out of the text from the Masonries own encyclopedia ?

"THE RELIGION OF FREEMASONRY IS NOT CHRISTIANITY!"

This was written by on of the greatest Masonic authors ! This book declares FREEMASONRY has a religion and that religion IS NOT CHRISTIANITY!

How many members have access to this encyclopedia ? hmmmmmmmmm, I WONDER WHY ?

Matthew 12:30-"He that is not with me is against me"; John 12:48-"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him in the last day.

Take head my friends and take a deeper look into your own "Church of Deceit "

This is a church of lies and deceit. If you would like me to expand I will continue to use excerpts out of your own literature to show the conflicts of your god and the God of Christianity.

I guess we now know why it is called a secret society !

Because they don't want you to know the truth !

hmmmmmmmm-When will they find the truth ? As soon as they start reading !

Truth

I think I get it now. What you're are saying is that it's wrong for people of diffrent faiths to pray together. Correct?

Originally posted by senrak
...all the while, he's gathering ATS points.

No! They are MY points! All mine! My precious, precious points!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

I am stockpiling them to build a "point bin" that I can swim around in, Scrooge McDuck style!

*hordes his points and gnashes his teeth at anyone trying to stop the flow*

Truth, man, as much as I love what you're doing with the thread ( ), This is not a discussion. This is you ranting, and completely ignoring the facts and ideas presented to you by the good people of ATS, both Mason and non-Mason alike.

You want to be closed minded, that's your right. You believe what you believe and everyone else can believe what they believe, and we can just agree to disagree. I'm not having an argument with you about this, because it's like talking to a brick wall. No wait, it's more like this --> :bnghd:

Before you continue your rant, you need to think about what you are being told, and what everyone who knows anything about Freemasonry knows; that it doesn't matter to the fraternity what God it's members pray to. In other words, it's not Freemasonry's place to tell a man who or what he should believe in, so long as he believes his God to be the Creator of all things, or The Great Architect of the Universe. Do you not believe that your God created the universe? Wouldn't that qualify Him for the title "Great Architect of the Universe"? Think about it.

Additionally, when I visited a lodge here in Texas, the prayer given before the meal was ended thus: "In Jesus' name we pray, SO MOTE IT BE!"

You see, the majority (if not all) the Masons in that lodge are Christian, so instead of using a moniker that is meant to be inclusive and ambiguous, so as not to offend brethren who might be of a different faith, they just went ahead and said Jesus, because that's who they all pray to anyways. Does this make sense to you?

[edit on 6/6/05 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by Truthisoutthere
Freemasonry teaches that there is one God and men of (ALL RELIGIONS ) and they worship that one God using a variety of different names. ( NOT JESUS ) In a Masonic Lodge, all join in corporate prayer to the Great Architect of the Universe, (GAOTU). THIS IS NOT the God of Christianity !

This is a fairy tale god- Occultic god, Paganistic god, god of deception.

Dude, what God are you talking about!?!? There is NO MASONIC GOD! GET THIS THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL!!! Freemasonry teaches no such thing! The GAOTU is an embodiment of whoever the individual mason's God is. How hard is this to understand!?!?!?

The Masonry God- Of Whom you must aknowledge, worship, pray, honor or what ever you would like to call it as you take the "OATH OF MASONRY".

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!? When I pray in lodge, I pray to my own God. In lodge, every mason prays to his own individual God!

The Masons on this site have also said that Feemasonry is not a religion nor a church ? This is a LIE ! yet the church has their own faith statment, systems and it's own bible ? Who New ?

Is this a lie? Please PROVE IT. Freemasonry is not a church or religion because:

1. There is no God or deity
2. It offers no plan for salvation
3. It does not convert

How hard is this to understand?

Reference: On page 26 of this Heirloom Masonic bible. The Heirloom Bible Publishers, Wichita, Kansas, publishes a Master Reference Edition of the Holy Bible, King James Version, exclusively for Freemasonry. Why ?

A masonic Bible is a King James Bible, with masonic-related inserts, passage highlights, and lessons that refer to the Bible. Most masons are VERY religious and devout men. The bible is the center of most mason's lives, and is the book upon which all Christian mason's base their morals. What's wrong with that?

This was written by on of the greatest Masonic authors ! This book declares FREEMASONRY has a religion and that religion IS NOT CHRISTIANITY!

Good God. Freemasonry HAS NO RELIGION!!! Religious discussion is FORBIDDEN in lodge!! This is why it says this!!!

The more I read your posts and reply, the more I realize that this is nothing more than a b1tch and rant session for you. You are having no discussion of any kind. For this reason, I am done with this discussion. This is useless and you, sir, are one of the most pathetic and close-minded people I have EVER come across. Do us all a favor and keep to yourself and your own fundamentalist cult.

Guys, this is useless. Mr. Truth wants to do nothing more than rant and rave about Freemasonry, he has no interest in discussing Freemasonry nor does he have any intention of reading anything we reply that contradicts his lies. Therefore, I suggest we all just drop this. He's useless.

His narrow-minded fundamentalism makes me sick.

[edit on 7-6-2005 by sebatwerk]

And once again I have proven my points !

You have said it for me again and again Seba ! lol !!!!

It's so ridiculous that I have shownn you the differences in Gods yet you still deny ! It's also sad

It's a shame that you are so deceived that you cannot even see your way out. You won't even take the time to learn the origins of masonry to learn of your own deceit.

Ignorance at it's finest !

Originally posted by Truthisoutthere
It's so ridiculous that I have shownn you the differences in Gods yet you still deny ! It's also sad

You have shown no such thing!!! You have only kept saying that Freemasonry has its own God, to which we ALL have told you that this is not true! Every individual mason worships his own God. You have not been able to demonstrate otherwise. Yu haven't even tried! How can you argue with this!?!?

You haven't even ATTEMPTED to show such differences. You only keep repeating the same claims over and over. It is your way of deflecting the issues. When someone contradicts your claim with a fact, you simply ignore it. Please DEFINE to us who this supposed "masonic god" is!

You are as ignorant as they come dude. Like Axe said, it's like talking to a brick wall. You give us Christians a bad name.


[edit on 7-6-2005 by sebatwerk]

To be conscious that you are ignorant is a great step towards knowledge.
Benjamin Disraeli (1804 - 1881)

There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"
There is no "god of Freemasonry"

Get it?!

Axeman gave me an idea...

Hi guys!
After reading this both funny and informative thread I noticed two things that I would like to comment:

I understand from what freemason side has said that there is no God of freemasonry, the Great architect seems more like a nickname for use among members when referring to Creator of universe in various beliefs. Here we are still on the safe waters, no contradictions with Christianity in there, since everyone is still worshipping their own religion and no connection between the different religions are made. But if the nickname is used in a way that connects the different religious paths together (like saying Buddha and Jehova are the same God), then some people might have problems with it. But I'll assume from the previous posts that this is not the case.

Then some my thoughts about Mr. T's quote from the bible about not keeping other gods. I have always thought that it means that I should not pray to other gods, but not kill those who pray to others. Thus the intolerance of God for other gods is limited only to my religion if I want to serve Him right. In my opinion there is nothing that states I should interfere in the other peoples religions or be intolerant of them.

I don't see any problems with freemasonry accepting people of different religions as members. In my mind every corporation, nation, club or what-not can have people of different religions as members. I fail to see anything wrong with that.

Btw. I'm greek orthodox (or Finland orthodox more precicely) and I'm not a freemason, although I have read more or less "informative" things about it

[edit on 7-6-2005 by Oblomov] some grammar

[edit on 7-6-2005 by Oblomov]

Originally posted by senrak

Originally posted by Trinityman
Well, thats easy for you to say. You've already got your little picture

Are you talking about an Avatar? Those don't cost any points. You can add one now (unless they've changed the rules since I joined)

\

So I understand. Thanks M12 and others for sharing the ***** obvious with me.

Truthisoutthere

You are clearly not interesting in having a discussion with me. That is not entirely surprising given the calibre of posts you have made to date on this thread.

I really really wanted you not to be a troll.

Oh well ...

Priceless...

Nice avatar too!

Originally posted by Oblomov
Then some my thoughts about Mr. T's quote from the bible about not keeping other gods. I have always thought that it means that I should not pray to other gods, but not kill those who pray to others. Thus the intolerance of God for other gods is limited only to my religion if I want to serve Him right. In my opinion there is nothing that states I should interfere in the other peoples religions or be intolerant of them.

*applause*

This is the very point that Truth fails to realize... I think you are pretty much right on here.

Additionally, it's nice to know that someone got something other than bickering out of this thread.

[edit on 6/7/05 by The Axeman]

I thought we were beyond posting pictures like that?

Originally posted by intrepid
I thought we were beyond posting pictures like that?

I've never posted a picture of any sort before. But there comes a time...

Are you saying TIOT is not a troll?

C'mon...

Originally posted by intrepid
I thought we were beyond posting pictures like that?

Intrepid, you are absolutely right, the picture was vague and could easily be misconstrued, or mistaken for something else. Trinityman consider yourself duly chastised, and be more considerate in your future selections.

Art Critic Monkeys, not just for "refrigerator masterpieces" anymore...

While reading this thread through, I had very difficult time deciding if Mr T is a troll or not. But on the page 10 or 11 or something I noticed some points that had something that pointed to the need towards deeper discussion of semantics and thought that I say something if it could narrow the gap between the two sides. (also it has to be taken to account that when freemason members of ats have to answer same kind of questions every once in a while, they too may be too quick in their thinking and write answers too quick before thinking twice what the person assumedly trolling wrote) Although I'm 79% sure truth is infact troll earning some points, I think it is important to voice my opinion, because other people will read this thread also.

Let the light shine, and love your enemy (if you have some spare patience and humour left, of course )

[edit on 7-6-2005 by Oblomov]

Originally posted by Truthisoutthere
It's a shame that you are so deceived that you cannot even see your way out. You won't even take the time to learn the origins of masonry to learn of your own deceit.

Ignorance at it's finest !

"lol" indeed. Please go follow this link: www.medmalexperts.com...

Maybe you should learn a little about the origins of Christianity before you start slamming others.

Originally posted by JustMe74

Originally posted by Truthisoutthere
It's a shame that you are so deceived that you cannot even see your way out. You won't even take the time to learn the origins of masonry to learn of your own deceit.

Ignorance at it's finest !

"lol" indeed. Please go follow this link: www.medmalexperts.com...

Maybe you should learn a little about the origins of Christianity before you start slamming others.

Yes, and the Nommo of Dogon tribe are quite disturbing. I also suggest reading something about Marduk etc. It seems good and evil have changed in peoples minds according to the winning tribe's religion (search for influences to jewish religion under the influence of Zoroastrians etc). Although I keep these things as a hobby, they sure fill my head with some serious questions time after time. Truth seems to really be out there.

Edit: but ofcourse these things have little to do with the original arguments in this thread...

[edit on 7-6-2005 by Oblomov]

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Intrepid, you are absolutely right, the picture was vague and could easily be misconstrued, or mistaken for something else. Trinityman consider yourself duly chastised, and be more considerate in your future selections.

But it took me ages to draw it