Knights of Columbus creepy ceremony

reply to post by senrak



What book did Masonic light read this in?

I read about the KOC in a book by, wait for it an ex member of the Koc i guess he will be anti-catholic as well just like the ex priests that have turned evangelical and verified the oaths on a number of occasions. They threatened enough people with a lawsuit about the supposed bogus oath if im not mistaken why not threaten the publishers of this book?

I will take the book as read cause in this day and age you just can publish lies can you.

Nobody has proved for a fact what i have posted is nonsense so put up or shut up!

Post what rituals you want, remember i have a lot of rituals in my posession i could quite easily post.

Originally posted by orangeman dave



What book did Masonic light read this in?

I didn't read it anywhere, I just wrote it...sort of look the book on the KofC you're talking about. Just because something is written doesn't mean it's true.

Nobody has proved for a fact what i have posted is nonsense so put up or shut up!

Post what rituals you want, remember i have a lot of rituals in my posession i could quite easily post.

There aren't any "secret" rituals anywhere. In all groups, eventually somebody gets their feelings hurt, and publishes them in retaliation. Masonic rituals have been in the public domain for at least 3 centuries, and KofC and Orange rituals have been out there since not long after their founding as well. Ditto for Oddfellows, Knights of Pythias, Woodmen, etc.

Here, for example, is the Royal Arch Purple of the Orangemen:

www.evangelicaltruth.com...

The other Orange degrees can be read online, as well as the KofC and a billion Masonic ones.

It ain't a big deal.



[edit on 29-1-2009 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by orangeman dave
reply to post by senrak

 

Nobody has proved for a fact what i have posted is nonsense so put up or shut up!

Why don't yout put your money where your mouth is and prove that these are the true ceremonials of the Knights of Columbus.

I know what the true ceremonials are. Like I said, I am on the degree team that enacts the ceremonial. I am also the one that sets up the council chambers, and know what items are present. What you have posted is utter total nonsense. I know this for a fact.


CC

I suppose I've kept my nose out of this as long as possible.

To orangedave, I have to side with CC and ML on this post. I've read the book you're talking about and to be honest, I think parts of it may reflect some very early portions of the degrees. If you'll look at the 2nd degree in your book though, you'll see there's no substance to it at all. It's as if it were made up completely. The 3 degrees of the Knights of Columbus are very detailed, and beautifully written; much more so than that book reflects. And I can assure you there is not fake blood and certainly no Secret Service Agent involved. As has been pointed out, it's very uncommon to even see a Secret Service Agent, much less participate in degree work with one.

Also, the 3 degrees of the Knights of Columbus have been revised and rewritten numerous times. There exists somewhere on the net a version that was used on a trial basis soon after the Second Vatican Council. If you read these, there are numerous references to "Vatican II" Those have been trashed completely and the current degrees are much different than those. In fact the 1st Degree was revised again in 2005, the 2nd in 2006 or 2007 (if forget which) and the 3rd degree revision is in a trial version right now. To my knowledge the 4th Degree will remain the same. My area, by the way, allows our wives to witness the 4th Degree. Nothing secret at all about it. It's about Patriotism and Church History.

Another thing I would note about your book orangedave, is there are no secret pass-words or hand-shakes in the K of C. I've been told by older members in my Council that there was a pass-word at one time, but it has long since been dropped.

Oh, and unlike the Orange Society whis is anti-Catholic, the Knights of Columbus is not anti-Protestant. In fact the Protestant faith community isn't mentioned at all. We're simply a fraternity founded by and for Catholics and are pledged to support the Church and Christianity.

[edit on 30-1-2009 by Appak]

reply to post by Appak







[edit on 30-1-2009 by orangeman dave]




[Mod Edit - Replaced unnecessary quote with Reply to tab]



Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.



[edit on 31/1/2009 by Sauron]

Originally posted by orangeman dave

The Orane order isnt anti-catholic its pro protestant, does it make us anti-catholic to ask us to marry protestants and bring our children up protestant and refrain from the errors of the Catholic Church doctrines which conradict the bible?

You know Dave, your line of 'reasoning' (such that it is) was used by a certain middle-European gentleman mid-30's, short of stature and of tolerance. In fact, it used by neo followers of this man's doctrine even today. Keep up the good work; live the intolerance.

This from an Anglican in case you were about to suggest I'm Catholic.

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


WTF are you on about Anglican or whatever you are, I see you are a Mason as well i hope you find God and leave this order which is Controlled by Dark Forces, Knights of Columbus/Freemasonry 2 sides of the same coin

I think you are referring to the vatican controlled nazis By The way i can link you to them

www.spirituallysmart.com...

Hers another one of the Priests givingf the old salute

www.blessedquietness.com...
Go In Peace


[edit on 30-1-2009 by orangeman dave]

[edit on 30-1-2009 by orangeman dave]

No Dave. I was referring to the little corporal. And how is it that if the Masons were controlled by the K of C, that the Catholic church has a bead on Catholics who join this supposedly Catholic-controlled entity? Your hate-filled 'reasoning' leaves something to be desired.

reply to post by orangeman dave



I knew I should have kept quiet. Dave, you are a hate-monger. I thought you were a Mason, but apparently I was mistaken.

So the Orange Lodge isn't anti-Catholic, it's pro-Protestant. I have no problem with that. You're right the Church of Rome has made her share of mistakes. After all, we ARE composed of humans and humans are prone to err. Protestants aren't free from sin either. Remember the Scotch Calvinists? Nasty, nasty foks.

But I won't bother you any more. My health won't allow it and honestly orangedave, I think you are ill as well. I do not mean that as an insult, but in all seriousness. Your posts are full of anger and hatred and very non-Christian. You also seem incapable of writing two sentences in a row that are grammatically correct. I'm sure there is much on your troubled mind orangedave. I wish you only the best.

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


The Masons and Knights are Controlled by Rome, how is it that its Masons that are defending the Knights every defensive post has been by a mason, You can see its Masons that are attacking me for my posts on the Knights, Brothers together.

Ask yourself if Catholics are not meant to join the Knights then why is their a 33rd degree masons posting thats in the Knights as well, obviously its a myth or he is a hypocrite and doesnt listen to his church's papal bulls.

Anyone that posts the truth regarding the Vatican and its horrors gets branded hatemonger.Apak where these murdering Priests Hatemongers or is it me thats the Hatemonger for hating Murderers

Appak its your hate mongering Nazi Priests, Jesuit controlled goverments that are hatemongers check the links your Church has the blood of millions on its hands.

God Bless you and keep you hopefully you can find Jesus and get away from theses evil groups, Also im not a Mason anymore i opened my eyes to this crap, the day i watched the Popes funeral and seen the Bishops or Cardinals drawing their hands across their throats and smartly back to their sides this is when the penny dropped!

Originally posted by orangeman dave
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

The Masons and Knights are Controlled by Rome, how is it that its Masons that are defending the Knights every defensive post has been by a mason, You can see its Masons that are attacking me for my posts on the Knights, Brothers together.

Because you're making unsubstantiated hateful, spiteful posts about a group with one purpose and one purpose only; to generate fear and hatred about said group.

I'd call you on the carpet for posting such transparently antagonistic posts about sinister, epileptic barbers. There's nothing special under these circumstances about the K of C or the Catholic church in general.

Originally posted by orangeman dave
Ask yourself if Catholics are not meant to join the Knights then why is their a 33rd degree masons posting thats in the Knights as well, obviously its a myth or he is a hypocrite and doesnt listen to his church's papal bulls.

Because men have minds and free will and the ability to use them. Many Catholic men feel their Church leadership is in error on this matter and act accordingly. This does not make them bad men or, for that matter, necessarily bad Catholics (though I'm sure the hierarchy might see it differently). Which brings up the matter of hierarchies in general. Too often, certain kinds of men think themselves infallible and certain kinds of men agree and act accordingly toward those of the former group. This applies across every identifiable group of people, even the Orange Order. The first group will then act as if only they have and/or can know the 'truth' (at least the 'truth' as they see it) and that all others are at best in darkness or at worst, sent to twist and create disorder among those who would know the 'truth'. Such men of whatever stripe are to viewed with suspicion. Jim Jones was one of these kind of men.

However, it is incumbent upon mankind in general to find and act upon ways whereby we as a species can live in harmony. There will always be the orangeman dave-quality of individuals who prefer hate and separatist disharmony to finding those commonalities we share across mankind. It's the orangeman daves of this world under whatever banner they array themselves who are emblematic of mankind's worst traits.

reply to post by Fitzgibbon



Ok Fitzgibon you have me all those people that talk about Catholic conspiracies are all anti-catholic hate mongereres like myself.

Even in the USA where the Catholic Church is not the Majority Religion and Congress has more Catholics than any other denomination its not for power or Catholic rule its just how it is.

Ill not be posting on this again, even though one of the members said the book i had referred to parts of a former degree they conferred, you still said it was without substance.

By the way i dont hate anyone i have Catholic friends, i work with Catholics on a daily basis not once did i say i hated them or anyone for that matter. I just dont have much time for their Church which aided the killing of 19 million people in WW2. I see nobody cared to reply to that but the usual Anti-Catholic bull apeared. If you cant enter a debate call one names that usually works.

As for Masonic signs at the popes funeral no/one touched on this, also the Catholic Orientated rituals in the Perceptory these are more unsubstantiated facts on my part.

I will not post links to show the Catholic Church and Freemasonry ties as you and your masonic friends will call them Anti-Catholic or anti Masonic.

I do hope you and your Masonic friends and the Knights of Columbus members see the errors of their way after all you were meant to be brought from darkness to light but are still in the dark about the truth!

David




[edit on 31-1-2009 by orangeman dave]

reply to post by orangeman dave


I'm girding up my loins to doubt seriously that any Bishops or Cardinals made any Masonic signs at the funeral of Pope John Paul II. Particularly in light of the fact that Masonry is not controlled by Rome, nor connected TO Rome (despite your having said so on numerous occasions).

However, I taped Pope John Paul II's funeral. I'll have to re-watch it this weekend, although, admittedly I'm not expecting results in your favor.

reply to post by akilles

akilles,
I would register and debate with you if you were capable of the same. Your repetition of your points give them no more validity then when you originally stated them. While it is some of the references to pagan rituals turned converted to christian icons may have merit in the conversion of followers, to suggest that there is a secret society of pagan worshipers in the catholic community or that the Knights of Columbus is a secret organization to worship Mary (aka the Dark Goddess) is a joke at best.
First, your argument suggest that derives from a conspiracy theory with respect to the church and it's worshipers that has been secretly would have to have been secretly contained by millions of Catholics (even those who renounced the faith for whatever reason for another). To suggest that this secret worship takes place but has never been proven by secret church documents, photographs, videos, what-have-you in 2000 years is absurd.
Next, let's look at your claims using Occam's razor. This principle states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory. On one hand we can observe the simple fact that KofC members, Catholics, their websites and printed material all claim that they do not worship idols and have legitimate evidence that supports their position with respect to the meanings of their symbolism. On the other hand, we have your claim that these articles and claims are mere deception for a secret society of pagans. This claim merely has the evidence from hundreds of years ago, that some pagan rituals may have been converted to christian use, but cannot support the claim that that is the intent NOW. What evidence do you present that supports your claim? How has this society managed to suppress all their secret underlying beliefs from surfacing via disenfranchised believers? The mere layers of complexity that are required to support your claims, beg the question, when will the secret society of pagan Catholics be revealed?
I suggest NEVER, as this is just another conspiracy theory that has no basis of truth or supportability. So, provide a legitimate argument to this, and I will join ATS and continue our debate...

the ceremony process, different levels or (degrees) . The process is for members to bring catholic men that the member feels will be a potental member to open meeting. Men the member feels will contribute to the order. Believe me the ceremonies r somewhat old school, but the message, and the goals of the ceremonies r completely on the good side of humanity. After say u r asked to join and get a member knight to sponser u to take your first degree. You have to do certain things (all good stuff) before you can take your next levels of membership. so on and so forth. I have already said to much LOL. I would say if you believe that what Jesus did with his time on earth was some good stuff, and you would like to be a part of something meaningful. The K of C is for u. It also is alot of fun with the guys, but also more than u think alot of family involvment.

The Knights of Columbus is not a "secret society" and the initiations are not "scary". We are Catholic men who are dedicated to civic service and service to promoting and uplifting our Catholic Church. There is nothing "evil" about us and the so-called "secrets" only exist so as not to spoil the fun for incoming members. KofC is a fraternal organization, much as a fraternity at a college or the Lions Club or the Moose Lodge, except our brotherhood is borne of common dedication to our church. We work together to help various charities and we pray together as men of common faith. We also socialize together with our families, much like the Elks Lodge or the Royal Order of Buffalo. There's nothing harmful about the KofC, so just leave us alone already.

reply to post by Rasputin13


I will try to elaborate so as to not "scare " you. After reading more of your posts I realize that you are not a person who should ever join the Knights nor can you as you must be a practical catholic. However to satisfy your curiosity I will try to give you some sense of what happens. There are 4 degrees. Charity, Unity, Fraternity, and Patriotism. Terrible and scary huh? All members take an oath not to reveal anything. The reason is simple...in order to gain from the lessons taught (see above charity etc) during a degree you wouldn't get anything if you knew what was going to happen. The reason for the degrees is simple.....all brother knights have walked the same (path) that is what ties all the brothers together. There are no secretes just good men doing charitable works for their church, for other brother knights, for the association of retarded citizens, and any people who need help. All fraternal associations have initiation rites as those tie the members together as they all walk the same path. Hope this helps alay all your deepest fears and worries. And no one is making you join any organization so be safe stay home and watch the tube and let those who want to make a difference do what good men do. A fourth degree knight for 30 years and a degree team member.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Actually I want to add to my other post that before a person goes through with the first degree which is about charity he must take an oath never to reveal to an outsider anything about the degrees. However all incomming candidates are first read the oath and then asked if they wish to continue or to leave. So a candidate knows what is required before he even takes that oath. Yes the Kof C is very nasty and very devious. Actually the first part isnt a secrete because a person can leave if he has any problems with the oath even though he has heard it. Hope this helps the uninitiated understand that there are no mysteries or voodoo going on ever. "" If anyone here thinks he should not take nor cannot keep this pledge let him so announce and he shall be allowed to leave still a stranger to our order"".. A quote from the first degree. All you conspiracy nuts need to get a life you have too much free time. A degree team member.

I'd like to get back to the thread topic. I've also head from a "de-pledge" for lack of a better word, that the initation ceramony was humiliating, degrating to women/his wife, and he was embarassed to say more. How can Catholics be a part of an organization that would make any one feel like that? He went through the initiation and became a member, but later quit because the KofC was trying to teach him that his wife should serve him and he is the superior, which he didnt agree with. The final straw was when he missed his grandson's birthday party because they wouldn't let him leave a meeting early to attend. He won't say much other than the entire experience was humiliating and he was appalled. This is coming form a devout Catholic, who is a great man. What could be going on in these initations and meetings that would make anyone feel like that? Sounds like a boys club who missed out on fraternity lifein college or some that are trying to re-live their glory days to me!

reply to post by dcj025


I've read various versions of the KofC rituals. I've never seen anything humiliating or anti-family in them. It is possible that some individual KofC Councils have adopted some sort of hazing practices, but these would not be condoned by the grand bodies.