Knights of Columbus creepy ceremony

I'd likewise be sceptical of such claims quite simply because they strike me as contrary to the spirit of their fraternity. Admittedly, I'm not a Catholic and hence not a Knight of Columbus. However, as a Mason, I would be hard-pressed to believe that there are truly significant differences (aside from needing to be a Catholic for K of C) and it sounds like someone's trying to stir a pot of troll stew for their own ends

Originally posted by dcj025
I'd like to get back to the thread topic. I've also head from a "de-pledge" for lack of a better word, that the initation ceramony was humiliating, degrating to women/his wife, and he was embarassed to say more. How can Catholics be a part of an organization that would make any one feel like that? He went through the initiation and became a member, but later quit because the KofC was trying to teach him that his wife should serve him and he is the superior, which he didnt agree with. The final straw was when he missed his grandson's birthday party because they wouldn't let him leave a meeting early to attend. He won't say much other than the entire experience was humiliating and he was appalled. This is coming form a devout Catholic, who is a great man. What could be going on in these initations and meetings that would make anyone feel like that? Sounds like a boys club who missed out on fraternity lifein college or some that are trying to re-live their glory days to me!

The Knights of Columbus ceremonials have nothing humiliating or degrading to women in them. I am on a degree team that actually performs the ceremonials, and I have no idea where you are getting this information from.

The experience is edifying, uplifting, and very inspiring. I observe the various degrees whenever I am able, over and over again. Look at any Columbia magazine and you can see for yourself the good that Knights of Columbus do all over the world.

I am, and always will be a proud member of the Knights of Columbus.

CC

I've been away for a while and it looks like the anti-Catholic fools have flourished.

Forced a member to miss his grandson's birthday? The only thing that I can imagine stupider then missing your grandson's birthday for a meeting is posting an accusation like that.

'De-pledge'? Sigh

It is not Catholic doctrine to place one's wife in a subservient role - why would the Knights do such a thing?


Malice? Idiocy? Does it matter?

Shantyman, I have reason to believe you may be a member of the Knights of Columbus. Are you in fact a brother?

Less than a month ago I went through my first degree initiation, and I am looking forward to my second and third degree coming up in a few months. I cannot speak for the upper degrees, or what the ceremony was like 25+ years ago (I understand that there have been some minor procedural changes done then) but nothing was scary in my first degree, and I doubt the higher degrees are as well. If you take the message seriously during your first degree then it can be eye opening but nothing. (I hope this didn't go against any of my pledges, maybe some of the fourth degrees out there can correct me if I did)

For all Catholics, Mary is seen as our patroness. We do not pray to her, but we go to her on our behalf when we feel we need some extra help. I like to think of her like your favorite family member/friend that you go to when you need a pick me up/advice. She, herself, cannot 'make it happen' but can be the sounding board we need, or can 'talking to the right people' for us.

Just remember this organization (KofC) is a branch of a greater organization (The Catholic Church), whether you believe in/like it, or not, that teaches peace, hope, love and charity. It teaches that theses are some of the greatest virtues a person can live by. Are there times, current and past, that we and our organization, have fallen short of these tenants? Yes, there is no denying that. Have we as members and an organization, both the Holy See and the KofC and other organizations within the Church as well, done some wonderful things as well? You bet.

Are we perfect? No. Can I tell you and give you the proof, real tangible proof, that we are right in what we believe? No I cannot, and trust me there have been times in my life, and sometimes even now, that I too wish I had that tangible proof that so many want. But I cannot provide it. In the end I may be wrong, but everything that I am doing now will not be for naught. If I am able to help an organization that will in turn help those who truly need it, then, even if I am wrong and this is all that there is, my life and time spent doing this will not be wasted. I believe in something bigger and greater than me, I believe that God is real and is something that I cannot fully understand. But right now there is nothing greater than seeing that Special Olympian cross that finish line with that huge smile after finishing that race. Nothing greater than helping serve my community by aiding those that are terminally ill, home bound or any other number of things. These are just a few charitable acts that KofC participates in and if my small acts can help someone that truly needs it, than that will be all I need.

reply to post by RKaji


Congratulations on joining our honored order, and becoming a brother in the Knights of Columbus. From your post, I beleive you will be an active and valuable member in your council.

I'm a 4th degree member, and you did not reveal anything about the ceremonials that would violate your promises. So don't worry about that. We'll track you down and blow up your toilet if you do. (Joke) lol.

Keep up the good work brother, and as you and I both know. Well for you, as far as the 1st degree, there is nothing 'bad' in that degree.

CC

reply to post by akilles


Thank you for saving me from reading the rest of the thread. These threads always turn into absolutely nothing, with nothing to learn and nothing to believe.

Though it could be true that the ceremonies all resemble scenes from that movie ''Behind The Green Door''.

Originally posted by RKaji
Less than a month ago I went through my first degree initiation, and I am looking forward to my second and third degree coming up in a few months.

Yes congrats on starting your journey. As Chief stated, and from experience going through all four myself, no there is nothing "creepy" about any of the ceremonies, in fact they are quite a beautiful experience.

eLearning..

When I was younger my dad told me about how they had bones in a box (or inside of something) and that the people there had to swear to secrecy. But that's really all I remember him telling me. For some reason I remembered that, so decided to look for a thread here. =P I actually just tried calling him to get more details about what went on there, but couldn't get a hold of him. Once I do, I'll post he re. =]

Just got off the phone with him, and this is what he said about the initiation: Basically they're blindfolded and have to touch the hands of the bones, and then the swear to secrecy thing. I asked him if they were real bones, but he said he didn't think they were, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were. lol Anyways, that's really all he said. Creepy. =[

reply to post by Rasputin13


The KofC along with the other Big 3 (freemasons, odd fellows, knights of pythias) use the allegory of a symbolic death and resurection into a new life equaly from the rituals of the KofP, KofC and O F's that i have seen. it seems scary to the average person and it has a shock and awe effect which is what it's intended to do.

Originally posted by chief_counsellor
There is nothing that frightening about the Knights of Columbus initiation ceremonies. I will not reveal to a non member anything about the ceremonials themselves. That would ruin it the expereince for those that take it in the future. I would not post the ceremonials in a public forum for the world to see.

What I can say, is the ceremonials are a very beautiful, enlightening expereince that any Catholic male would appreciate.

Then why can't you spell 'experience'? Because you're scared. The fact is the 'Catholic' version of the secret society isn't any better than telling lies and sticking your hand down your crack to whiff your own (expletive).

Eventually you have to be a pretty bad Catholic to accept the initiation ceremony as a following of Christ. The swearing to secrecy, followed by a slight blow to the cheek and oaths, futher indoctrination - all with some seemingly, well laid out symbolism.

However, biblically, it just doesn't fly. Firstly, the Epistle of the Bible states that "everything done in secret will be made known". For any one to begin a venture against such prophecy is a fool. So why the secrecy? It is written in Daniel "he shall be struck, and shall return with indignation". OK - we're going to find out who the Antichrist is. But the Bible says that the Antichrist shall reveal himself in his own time. That's two strikes. Then, like Islam, which tries to build its governing on a man they call Mohammed, the Knights of Columbus seek to honor Venerable Michael McGivney. The secret rituals do nothing but put nails into Venerable Michael's coffin, just as Islam does to Mohammed's.

Brother Knights and all - the spell is broken - and it had to be this way.

Originally posted by chief_counsellor
reply to post by RKaji

 

Congratulations on joining our honored order, and becoming a brother in the Knights of Columbus. From your post, I beleive you will be an active and valuable member in your council.

I'm a 4th degree member, and you did not reveal anything about the ceremonials that would violate your promises. So don't worry about that. We'll track you down and blow up your toilet if you do. (Joke) lol.

Keep up the good work brother, and as you and I both know. Well for you, as far as the 1st degree, there is nothing 'bad' in that degree.

CC

I'm currently a 32nd degree Freemason and devout Christian. My wife and I are currently considering converting to the Catholic Church and as such I know I must consider leaving the Masonic fraternity. I know the church officially prohibits Masons from receiving communion, but I also know there are many brother who remain in both lodge and church. I'm tending toward the idea that I will leave the lodge because the church's stance seems pretty clear. That being said I'm considering the KofC and was wondering if you (or any other KofC members here) were/are Freemasons as well and how it compares. My masonic involvement has been fun and enlightening, but my vows are nothing compared to my relationship with my God and Savior.

Would really appreciate your feedback.

Originally posted by pbrez
Catholics do not have "rituals". Peace be with you.

In contrast to that statement, there are at least two Catholic Rites, Byzantine and Latin. Their rituals are basically the same, but historically are different. The overall use of ritual is to bring people closer to God.

And also with you.

Originally posted by fmcanarney
Never the less, the gut slitting comment, if it happened, is hilarious, due to the fact that he probably still believes it and is now as then unable to have a balanced sense of humor.

The word is horrendous, not hilarious.

Originally posted by AtticusNoble

Originally posted by chief_counsellor
reply to post by RKaji

 

Congratulations on joining our honored order, and becoming a brother in the Knights of Columbus. From your post, I beleive you will be an active and valuable member in your council.

I'm a 4th degree member, and you did not reveal anything about the ceremonials that would violate your promises. So don't worry about that. We'll track you down and blow up your toilet if you do. (Joke) lol.

Keep up the good work brother, and as you and I both know. Well for you, as far as the 1st degree, there is nothing 'bad' in that degree.

CC

I'm currently a 32nd degree Freemason and devout Christian. My wife and I are currently considering converting to the Catholic Church and as such I know I must consider leaving the Masonic fraternity. I know the church officially prohibits Masons from receiving communion, but I also know there are many brother who remain in both lodge and church. I'm tending toward the idea that I will leave the lodge because the church's stance seems pretty clear. That being said I'm considering the KofC and was wondering if you (or any other KofC members here) were/are Freemasons as well and how it compares. My masonic involvement has been fun and enlightening, but my vows are nothing compared to my relationship with my God and Savior.

Would really appreciate your feedback.

I actually joined the Freemasons for a very short time a few years before I joined the Knights of Columbus. Certain priests would not give me communion, and my mother was very upset with me during the period of time I was a member there as she is a devout Catholic. The Knights of Columbus ceremonials are very different than the Freemasons degrees. If you decide to join the Knights of Columbus, you will not be disappointed. One of the reasons the Knights of Columbus was created was to provide an alternate group that had similar benefits to the societies that were banned by the Catholic church . Fraternal organizations were very popular in the late 1800's and many were forbidden by the Catholic and other Christian churches as well. Fr. Micheal J. McGivney saw a need for a fraternal benefit societ to which Catholics could join without penalty or excommunication from the church. Another reason was to provide for the widows and orphans when the breadwinner of the family passed away from an untimely death. Thus the creation of the Knights of Columbus Insurance program.

There are only 4 degrees in the Knights of Columbus. After your 3rd you've reached FULL Knighthood in the order, the 4th is an extra degree that will allow you to reach COMPLETE Knighthood in the order.

Let me know if you want any more specific information or questions. I will not however, reveal anything of working of the ceremonials of the degrees, but anything else I will be happy to answer.

CC

reply to post by chief_counsellor


CC - thank you so much for the informative reply. I'd just typed up a response to your PM, but apparently I need more than 20 posts before I can use messaging for some reason. As soon as I hit that range I'll send you a reply.

reply to post by Rasputin13


The first degree ceremony is the beginning of a person's trek to full knighthood (third degree). The central theme of that ceremony is that YOU WILL DIE... one day... and you need to live like it. You need to be preparing for that moment, when nothing else matters except," Were you a righteous person?" There is absolutely no hazing whatsoever, no threats made. In fact, the closest thing to a threat in any of the knights ceremonies is the solemn reminder that you bring dishonor upon yourself if you disclose the any of the elements of the rituals... and to be perfectly honest it is ridiculous to even call them 'rituals' because they are so campy... they were made in the 1890's, what do you expect? BUT... there is a caveat to the secrecy, which is that if you are compelled by the government or the Church to divulge the ritual, for legitimate reasons, you not only can, but should, because the KofC exists to be of service to the Church and the state. KofC is clear to all it's knights, that the purpose and merit of secrecy is the mystic it gives to the order, and the recruiting power of mystery.

KofC isn't like Freemasonry (which you cannot be a member of if you are in KofC... you also can't be a socialist) where they supposedly give you secret knowledge. It isn't an organization designed to communicate special gnosis to it's members, or tell them lore concerning astrology, history, magic, cabbala, esoteric eastern religions. We don't have detailed imaginary ties to the templar, or Babylon, etc... like the Masons do. It's not an organization designed to increase your worth, your status, your reputation, your ability to get out of speeding tickets (which Mason's are infamous for... I know I used to be one). The KofC is an organization that calls men together who already have something in common... their faith and their desire to do acts of charity in a frequent and organized manner with fellow Catholics. For instance, the 'under God clause' was lobbied for by the KofC. We're responsible for that. We payed for, printed, and distributed all the signs at the right to life march in DC in 2011. We renovated the facade of St. Peter's basilica. We played an active role in the civil rights movement. KofC does nothing more than provide a venue where 'Catholic men in good standing' can band together for Church and state... just like the knights of old. And above all, it's practical. It was practical when Fr. McGivney first created the order, for protecting the Catholic minority from discrimination and bigotry.

Have you ever seen the movie 'Kingdom of Heaven?' Recall the scene where Godfrey 'knights' his son and makes him the 'Baron of Iblin.' Now, fast forward nine centuries to a parish social hall, that was used for children's Sunday school five hours before and smells of crayons. The ceremonies are fun, full of deeply pious and religious exhortations, and moral gut checks. You are entering a fraternity of Catholic knights... everything is designed to call you to moral purity, loyalty to the Church, duty to country... in a word, you are being called to Chivalry. That's the truth about KofC.

All this stuff about drinking parties and death threats, threats of disembowelment, scariness, illuminati, goddess worship... etc, is complete trolldom. The KofC is the most transparent of all fraternal orders out there and you should simply take a trip to their site, for your questions.

reply to post by Appian

One of my good friends wanted to join the Freemasons, but he is Catholic and although he is not active doesn't want to betray the commands of the Church (whether he agrees with it or not). I suggested that he join the KofC and he is thinking about it.

This organisation is secterian scum and to prove this here is their oath. Dont listen if any of them that may say it isn't because i can assure you that it is, ive seen it first hand!

Knights of St.Columba Oath

Fourth Degree

"I now in the presence of Almighty God, the blessed Virgin Mary, the blessed St. John the Baptist, the Holy in Heaven, and to you, my Ghostly Father, the superior general of the society of Jesus, founded by St. Ignatius Lovola in the Pontification of Paul III, and continued to the present, do, by the womb of the Virgin the Matrix of God, and the road of Jesus Christ, Declare and swear that his Holiness the Pope is Christ's vice regent, and is the true and only head of the Catholic or Universal Church throughout the earth, and that by virtue of the keys of binding and loosing given his Holiness my saviour Jesus Christ, he hath power to depose heretic Kings, Princes, Commonwealths and Governments, and they may be safely destroyed.

Therefore to the utmost of my power, I will defend this doctrine and his Holiness' right and custom against all usurpers of the heretical Protestant authority whatsoever, especially the Lutheran Church of Norway, Germany, Holland, Denmark and Sweden, and the now pretended authority of the Church of England and Scotland, and the branches of the same now established in Ireland and the continent of America and elsewhere, and all adherents in regards that they may be usurped and heretical, opposing the Mother Church of Rome.

I do now denounce and disown any heretical King, State or Prince, named Protestant or Liberals, or obedience to any of their laws, magistrates or officers.

I do further declare that the doctrine of the Churches of England and Scotland, of Calvinists, Hugonois and others of the name of Protestants or Masons to be damnable, and they themselves to be damned who will not forsake the same.

I do further declare that I will help, assist and advise all or any of his Holiness' agents in any place that I should be, in Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Ireland, or America, or any other kingdom or territory I shall come to, and to do my utmost to extirpate the heretical Protestant or Masonic doctrine and to their pretended powers, legal or otherwise. I do further promise and declare that notwithstanding that I am dispensed with to assume any religion heretical for the propagation of the Mother Church's interest, to keep secret all her agents' councils from time to time as they instruct me, and not divulge, directly or indirectly, by word, writing or circumstances whatever but to execute all that should be proposed, given in charge, or discovered to me by you, my Ghostly Father, or any of this sacred order.

I do further promise and declare that I will have no opinion or will of my own, or any mental reservation whatever, even as a corpse or candover (perinde ad candover) but will unhesitatingly obey every order or command that I may receive from my superiors in the Militia of the Pope, and of Jesus Christ. That I will go to any part of the world whitherso I may be sent, to the frozen regions of the North, jungle of India, to the centre of civilisation of Europe, or to the wild haunts of barbarous savages of America, without murmuring or repining, and will be submissive to all things whatsoever is communicated to me.

I so further declare and promise that I will, whenever opportunity presents, make and wage war - relentless war, secretly and openly against all heretics, Protestants, Masons, as I am dictated to do, to extirpate from the face of the whole Earth, and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition, that I will hang, burn, waste, boil, slay, strangle and bury alive there infamous heretics, rip up the stones and wombs of their women, and crush their infants' heads to the walls in order to annihilate their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly I will secretly use the poison cup, the strangulation cord, the steel of the poniard, or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honour, rank, dignity or authority of the persons, whatever may be the condition in life, either public or private, as I at time be directed to do so by any agents of the Pope or superior of the Brother of the Holy Father of the Society of Jesus.

In confirmation of which I hereby dedicate my life, soul, and all my corporal powers, and with the dagger I now receive I will subscribe my name, written in my blood in testimony whereof, and should I prove false or weaken in my determination may my brethren and my fellow soldiers in the Militia of the Pope cut off my hands, and my feet, and my throat from ear to ear, my belly be opened and sulphur therein burned with all the punishment that can be inflicted to me on Earth, and my soul shall be tortured by demons in eternal Hell forever.

That I will in voting, always vote for a Knight of Columba in preference to a Protestant especially a Mason, and that I will leave my party to do so. That if two Catholics are on a ticket, I will satisfy myself which is the better supporter of the Mother Church and vote accordingly. That I will not deal with or employ a Protestant if in my power to deal with or employ a Catholic. That I will place Catholic girls in Protestant families that a weekly report may be made from the movements of the heretics. That I will provide myself with arms and ammunition that I may be in readiness when the word is passed or I am called or commanded by the Mother Church either as an individual or with the Militia of the Pope.

All of which I do swear by the Blessed Sacrament of the Eucharist and witness the same blessed Trinity and Sacrament, which I now receive to perform, and in part to keep this oath.

In testimony thereof I take this Blessed Sacrament of the Eucharist and witness the same further with my name written in my own blood, and sealed in the face of this Holy Sacrament ".

Is there anyone the Catholic church doesn't want to kill. Grab unborn children from their mother's womb and smash their Protestants heads against the wall!!! If they tried that with any of my friends they would be going back to the Vatican in a box! The Catholic church is the most perverse, paedophile organisation on Earth. It's a big paedophile gang with the top one being the Pope ( God's voice on Earth........lmao). Of course if you dont agree with them you will burn in hell for eternity.......lol.......say's who? The top Paedo? Excommunication is the best thing that could happen to you, to anyone, ever.