Why do some people feel the need to post outright lies about Masons and Masonry?

Originally posted by zman

I started to wade through all the other excess verbiage, but elected not to...don't imagine it'll do much good.

Why hide the wisdom as it is freely given to you , please freely give us that what you know as well. Again , many blessings ..

Who says it was freely GIVEN? We've WORKED for it, why would we give it away? Why wouldn't we prefer to share it with WORTHY men who DESIRE to receive it? The TRUE SECRETS of Masonry are but a hollow mockery in the hands of those who carry them unlawfully...

Oh, and I'm sorry you think we're a "cult" but it simply isn't so. Cults tend to discourage free-thinking...Freemasonry ENCOURAGES it.

Originally posted by zman
Yes , if you do look at the websters dictonary and look under the word cult , It does discribe what you belong to or long to belong to.
...
But , you who knows so much about this cult , continue to show hate and bias toward others who disbelieve what you believe.

Unless you can SHOW and PROVE that Freemasonry is a cult, STOP CALLING IT THAT!!! You have in NO WAY demonstrated IN ANY WAY what you claim. You are merely claiming this to get us angry! BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS OR SHUT THE HELL UP!!!

Now with that out of the way, here is a page that lists 21 reasons why Freemasonry CANNOT be considered a cult:

www.masonicinfo.com...

If that does not change your mind, then do us a favor and BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS. Otherwise, you are simply a troll who is tyring to incite an emotional response from us, and I will have you banned for doing so.

Originally posted by sebatwerk
Otherwise, you are simply a troll who is tyring to incite an emotional response from us...

It's working... Just a thought...

Originally posted by zman
I have not only have read the bible , but the Koran , and also the Kabala.

You have read the Qabalah, huh?

Tell me, did you just pick up a copy at your local bookstore?

Please, humor me, zman, tell me in your own words just what you think Qabalah is, and then if you would be so kind, answer my post with something other than the definition of a cult, which Freemasonry definitely is NOT.

Originally posted by zman
Yes , if you do look at the websters dictonary and look under the word cult , It does discribe what you belong to or long to belong to.

Yes, the definition can be construed to describe Freemasonry, as well as Christianity (and all it's permutations), Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Trekkies, and compulsive viewers of the Jerry Springer Show. ATS is a cult by your (the esteemed Webster’s Dictionary) definition, is that such a bad thing?

I would suggest that in the future, when invoking the dictionary (you even spelled “dictionary” wrong ), please insure that it has first had a crack at your own prose, lest you seem hypocritical (and lazy), and therefore less influential in your arguments.

Spell Check Monkeys, not just for ATS posts anymore...

BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS OR SHUT THE HELL UP!!! .. as quoted by a true freemason. sebatwerk.

As you can see and everyone who reads these post , that I am being blasted because I do not believe in your religion. I am mearly trying to point out why others , seems like alot of others , blast freemasons.

Otherwise, you are simply a troll who is tyring to incite an emotional response from us, and I will have you banned for doing so. ( again posted by a mason , sebatwerk)

Please understand that I do not hate masons. I am what I am because of masons. My fathers , uncles , and some close friends are masons. But I chose not to be. This is my right. Because I do not believe what you believe you want to have me banned. I hope you understand what others read from your responces to me show your true colors. Hate filled speeches about banning others is not good leadership skills. Hey you have my e-mail addy , e-mail me and talk about masons and there teachings , I am responding to your hate filled posts and I am not going to again , as this seems to upset you greatly. As for links to freemasons being cults , they are everywhere , just google cults-freemasons. Secret doctrine reminds me of cults. This is the only way , reminds me of cults. You can only be enlightend this way , reminds me of cults. No one knows the way , as it has many paths. Again Many Blessings.

Sorry I typed it in wrong.

Kabbalah , Zohar english translation published from the press of ( Yeshuvat Kol Yehunda ) 14 Ben Ami Street , Tel Aciv , Israel 63342 www.stmartins.com

Please understand that I have read this 23 volume set. It has american translated and hebrew underneath.
anything else?

Please...do you masons honestly believe you haven't earned any of this suspicion?

I didn't learn about Freemasonry by reading the conspirotainment trash of David Icke or Alex Jones or Jim Marrs or Bill Cooper.

I learned about Freemasonry by studying *history*, by talking with Freemasons who I have met in *real life*, by reading Masonic works such as Albert Mackey's History of Freemasonry, and by reading obejctive, scholarly histories of masonry. And yes I have read masonicinfo.com from top to bottom.

Do I think all Masons are part of some evil grand conspiracy? Of course not.

Do I think they have played a fascinating and often negative role in the history of the world that demands explanation? Yes I do.

Do I think that an international male-only secret society that dresses in funny costumes, has secret handshakes, is obsessed with geometry, Jewish legends, pagan symbolism, the Knights Templar, has often had an overlapping relationship with the Rosicrucians, Jesuits, and the Bavarian Illuminati, that represents a fraction of the population yet has played a signicant yet intentionally obscured role in an incredibly wide-range of major historical movements, events and governments demands explanation? Yes I do.

Originally posted by zman
As you can see and everyone who reads these post , that I am being blasted because I do not believe in your religion.

Freemasonry is NOT a religion. Has never been...will never be. And you're not being "blasted" (as you say) because you do not believe...etc. etc. It's because you're making false accusations. Do YOU like being lied about? Well, neither do Freemasons.

Personally we don't CARE what you believe and would NEVER try to force you (or anyone else to believe anything)

I am mearly trying to point out why others , seems like alot of others , blast freemasons.

And we are MERELY defending ourselves against the false accusations you make...as well as those of other uninformed individuals.

Please understand that I do not hate masons.

I'll sleep better tonight knowing that.

I am what I am because of masons. My fathers , uncles , and some close friends are masons.

So you think your father, uncles and some friends are CULT MEMBERS? Hmmmm...

But I chose not to be. This is my right.

Absolutely. Besides if you believe we're a cult, we don't want you. Period.

Because I do not believe what you believe you want to have me banned.

Nah...I don't want you banned. Personally I find you wonderfully entertaining. (As I do ALL members who keep posting silly nonsense and lies about Freemasonry)

I hope you understand what others read from your responces to me show your true colors.

Blue? Green?

Hate filled speeches about banning others is not good leadership skills.

Neither is atrocious grammar and spelling, but who's trying to "lead" here?

Hey you have my e-mail addy , e-mail me and talk about masons and there teachings

Pass.

I am responding to your hate filled posts and I am not going to again

Promise?

As for links to freemasons being cults , they are everywhere

Certainly. There are PLENTY of lies out there. It's a good thing intelligent, thinking people can wade through it and find the truth, and not be led like weak-minded cattle, huh?

just google cults-freemasons.

How about just looking at legitimate Masonic links instead?

Secret doctrine reminds me of cults. This is the only way , reminds me of cults. You can only be enlightend this way , reminds me of cults.

Yep. That's why Freemasons do not HAVE "secret doctrines" That's why Freemasonry NEVER says "this is the only way" (or even "this is A way") We're a fraternity....not a religion...not a cult. Plain and simple.

No one knows the way , as it has many paths.

If you truly believe that "no one" knows the way, I pray for you my friend. Perhaps someday you'll find you're mistaken. Oh, and again, Freemasonry is NOT the way. It's just a fraternity.

Again Many Blessings.

et cum Spiritu tuo!

Originally posted by zman
BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS OR SHUT THE HELL UP!!! .. as quoted by a true freemason. sebatwerk.

As you can see and everyone who reads these post , that I am being blasted because I do not believe in your religion. I am mearly trying to point out why others , seems like alot of others , blast freemasons.

Otherwise, you are simply a troll who is tyring to incite an emotional response from us, and I will have you banned for doing so. ( again posted by a mason , sebatwerk)

I could care less what you believe. All I care about is that if you are going to make a claim against me, at least be man enough to back it up with evidence, or at least an example. You are being blasted and called a troll because you keep making the same absurd claim, one which we all disagree with, without even explaining why you believe this. You have made no effort to tell us WHY you believe Freemasonry is a religion, only that you do. Until you begin to post some examples of why Freemasonry is a cult, instead of merely telling us that it is, I will keep calling you a troll.

I believe you have no idea why you claim Freemasonry is a cult. I believe that you read this somewhere else, and are repeating it here like a parrot. There is no substance to your posts, only empty claims.

And the only reason I want you banned is because you are a troll, posting negative claims in order to get us angry. This is against the Terms of Service of ATS.


[edit on 24-5-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by Modulok
Do I think that an international male-only secret society that dresses in funny costumes, has secret handshakes, is obsessed with geometry, Jewish legends, pagan symbolism, the Knights Templar, has often had an overlapping relationship with the Rosicrucians, Jesuits, and the Bavarian Illuminati, that represents a fraction of the population yet has played a signicant yet intentionally obscured role in an incredibly wide-range of major historical movements, events and governments demands explanation? Yes I do.

While half of what you have stated is not true, you need to understand that Freemaosonry is a private organization that owes you no explanation whatsoever. We do what we want because we can, just like you can do whatever you want without answering to anyone, so long as you don't hurt anyone. Freemasonry is a private, volunteer, non-profit organization and therefore owes neither you or anyone else any kind of explanation for its actions.


[edit on 24-5-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by The Axeman
You have read the Qabalah, huh?

My thought exactly when I saw that..haha. Perhaps he or she has also "read" "the Neo-Platonism."

Originally posted by zman
Please understand that I have read this 23 volume set. It has american translated and hebrew underneath.

OK, so you claim you've read the Zohar. I see. Pardon me for saying so but if you're such an avid reader, what's up with your grammar?

anything else?

Well you could start by addressing my previous posts to you...

...and backing up what you say about Freemasonry. It strikes me as odd that someone who has so many relatives and friends that are supposedly Freemasons (33°, no less! ) would have such gross misconceptions about the fraternity.

Your credibility level is not withstanding scrutiny thus far, my friend. Perhaps you "typed it in wrong"?

Originally posted by The Axeman
It strikes me as odd that someone who has so many relatives and friends that are supposedly Freemasons (33°, no less!

) would have such gross misconceptions about the fraternity.

Perhaps having family members that were 33°s means that THEY know the truth about Freemasonry, that it is a cult and satanic! Only 33° know what Freemasonry is really about, you see. All the rest of us masons are being deceived as to what the true intentions of the "upper-echelon" of Freemasonry actually are.

:bnghd:

Freemasons. Cult. Also known as the Masonic Lodge, sometimes called the Masons. Highly secretive male-only group (whose secrets are widely distributed on the Internet). Christianity and Freemasonry are not compatible. There are two main branches or denominations - the York Rite (which has 10 degrees, or levels) and the Scottish Rite (which has 33 degrees). Most members never go beyond the first few levels (known as the Blue Lodge), and may not even know there are so many levels. See Jubilee Ministries for more information. Submissions for this listing are now being accepted. Please see the Contact page.

www.cults.co.nz...

www.geocities.com...

Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science and Freemasonry


At last, more compelling evidence has come in that strengthens the intimate ties between the two cults of Jehovah's Witnesses and Christian Science to the cult of Freemasonry. My original article only used symbolism (see below) to connect these cults, now there is some good documentation. Mary Baker Eddy, the founder of Christian Science, was an associate of 33rd Degree Freemason Henry Steele Olcott who founded the Satan worshipping cult called the "Theosophical Society" with evil female Freemason, mother of the New Age Movement and Hitler's spiritual guide, Helena Petrovna Blavatsky. Several Eddy brothers held seances and it was at one of these seances that Blavatsky met Col. Henry Steele Olcott. Mary Baker Eddy even married a Freemason and this became the ONLY secret society which she allowed other Christian Science members to join. Also she had her own material published in the Freemasons' Monthly Magazine. Several people connected with Christian Science such as directors and board members and a number of the editors of The Christian Science Monitor were Freemasons. Even the presidents of the Mother Church in 1922-23 and 1923-1924 were Masons. This article would not have been possible if not for the new book called "Masonic and Occult Symbols Illustrated" by Dr. Cathy Burns. I highly recommend this book.

Incompatible with Christianity
Though Freemasons claim otherwise, Freemasonry and Christianity are incompatible:
By taking the Masonic oaths, the Mason is swearing to uphold Masonry and its teachings. Swearing to uphold Masonic oaths is sinful, unscriptural and should not be part of the Christian's life for the following reasons.
1. They make a Christian man swear by God to doctrines which God has pronounced false and sinful. For example, Masonry teaches a universalist doctrine of "the Fatherhood of God" (John 8:42)

2. The Christian man is made to swear his acceptance of the lie that salvation, the reward of Heaven, can be gained by main's good works (Ephesians 2:8-9)

3. The Christian man swears to accept and promote the Masonic lie that Jesus is just one of many equally revered prohets in the world. He does this when agreeing that all religions can lead a man to God (Acts 4:12; Philippians 2:9-11; Colossians 1:16-18)

4. The Christian man swears he will remain silent in the Lodge and not talk of Christ when God commands every Christian to be a witness (Matthew 28:19)

5. The Christian man swears that he is approaching the Lodge while he is in spiritual ignorance and moral darkness, when the Bible says that Christians are children of light and are indwelt by the Light of the world (John 8:12; Ephesians 5:8)

6. By taking the Masonic oath, the Christian is guilty of taking the name of the Lord is vain, because he has sworn unlawfully to things God has forbidden him to swear to. God says He will not leave such a person unpunished (Exodus 20:7)

7. The Christian falsely swears that the God of the Bible is equally present in all religions (1 Timothy 2:5-6)

8. The Christian falsely swears to the teaching that true worship can be offered in to Lodge to God without the mediatorship of Jesus (Hebrews 9:14)

9. By swearing the Masonic oath, Christians are perpetuating a false gospel to other Lodge members who look only to the gospel of Masonry to get them to Heaven (Galatians 1:6-8)

10. The Christian's spirit, mind and body are the temple of the Holy Spirit, "bought with a price" (1 Corinthians 6:19-20). By taking the Masonic obligations he could be agreeing to allow the polution of his mind and spirit by pagan religion or even occult practices.
Source: John Ankerberg and John Weldon, Encyclopedia of Cults and New Religions Harvest House Publishers, Eugene, Or. 1999, P. 255-256
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www.apologeticsindex.org...

Theologically, Masonry may be classified as a cult from the perspective of biblical revelation. If we define a cult as a religious group which claims compatibility with Christian faith but deviates seriously from orthodox Christianity in doctrine and practice, Masonry qualifies.

www.ankerberg.com...




Web Results 1 - 10 of about 13,800 for cults - freemasons.

As you can see freemasons are a Cult . I find it hard that you being upstanding citizens would blast one who is telling everyone here the deception of your teaching. But I know of no true masons who has blasted me face to face as we agree to dis-agree. But your child like blasting of me is telling me and even one who reads these post that you are immature and need to get a hold of a leadership program. For if one can not lead he/she must follow.
Other Masons who read your post replies see that as well. While you in your own mind see fit to attack , mature masons use wisdom and knowledge you do not possess.

Many blessings ..

Originally posted by zman
As you can see freemasons are a Cult

zman,

Sorry. I've been a VERY active one for 16 years and I can't see it. I'm also a very devout Trinitarian Christian and have NO problem being both.

Sorry you feel that way about us. It's a free country (at least THIS one is anyway) so think what you'd like about us, say what you'd like about us and we'll continue to defend our good name.

Regards

Originally posted by zman
Freemasons ... Highly secretive male-only group

Originally posted by zman
... with evil female Freemason, mother of the New Age Movement and Hitler's spiritual guide, Helena Petrovna Blavatsky.

Bit of a contradiction there, wouldn't you say?

Originally posted by JustMe74

Originally posted by zman
Freemasons ... Highly secretive male-only group

Originally posted by zman
... with evil female Freemason, mother of the New Age Movement and Hitler's spiritual guide, Helena Petrovna Blavatsky.

Bit of a contradiction there, wouldn't you say?

Sure is JM74,

But that's how these Mason-haters work. Whatever info suits their own needs. Forget the facts. Forget logic. There's no reasoning with them . . . and no reason to in the first place.

Regards

Originally posted by zman

www.cults.co.nz...

From the same site:

Potter, Harry. Harry Potter is a fictional character in an on-going series of books (and more recently movies) written by J K Rowling. Much has been said for and against the books (and the movies) with some parents swearing by them, claiming that their children were not interested in reading before coming across the books. However, a great many people have strong concerns about the books' questionable morals and implementation of discipline, and the way they promote a pro-occult worldview and encourage children to play with the occult. From an excellent essay by Steven D Greydanus: "Sometimes Harry is legitimately driven by necessity to break a rule; other times it's only because he feels like it. Sometimes he is caught, sometimes not; sometimes he is punished, sometimes not... Yet closer examination reveals that Harry and his friends are only ever really punished for breaking rules when they're caught by one of the nasty authority figures... When it's one of the benevolent authority figures... there are no real consequences for breaking any number of rules, because Harry's heart is in the right place, or because he is a boy of destiny, or something like that." Especially good are the seven "hedges" explained in that article - each hedge being a literary characteristic that other authors (such as C S Lewis) use to separate the reader from directly identifying with occult activity and magic within the story. The hedges "have the net effect of limiting and restricting the role of magic in their fantasy worlds, essentially acting as barricades or hedges between magic and the reader, in effect saying: 'Magic is not for the likes of us.' ...Furthermore, none of these 'hedges' are found in ... the Harry Potter books. ... Consequently, greater parental guidance is required to avoid the pitfalls of the use of magic in the Harry Potter books..." Numerous articles exist on the Internet about the occult in Harry Potter.

NEWS FLASH: It's FICTION people!!!

Good grief, next thing you know they'll be trying to round up the books for bonfires...

As you can see, zman cites ony the finest sources for his nonsense. I'm not even going to address all that narrow-minded fundamentalist crap about the oaths.

Are you seriously that bigoted? Some "Christians" really just make me sick.

Dude, you need to get out more.

[edit on 5/25/05 by The Axeman]

Again , You miss interput the message to your own misconception of what the message actualy refers too. You asked me for explainations concerning why Freemasons are a cult . I showed not only you , but everyone who reads these post. I again do not hate masons. But you repeatedly inform me that I do when I do not. You call me what you will , but know that even though you list yourself as a 32 nd .. You have not shown me why you are not a cult. You can ban me but not the truth. For the truth as you know will set us free. I am not a member of any one religion. Yet you call me a christain mason basher. Where is the logic in your answers. Again being a 32nd you must again go though leadership skill training and use wisdom and knowledge with your answers to my post. I have , you have not. I see that on other post concerning Masons you bash and be critical of others. You my friend are not a mason , for if you where you would not bash or be critical , but be knowledgeable and use disernment to futher have discussions. So this tells me , if I did find out that Freemasons are a cult , Which I did , You would deny my findings. Which proves my finding that of why you and your fellow members ask why you get bashed and harassed. They give you no credibility and know that you are one minded , like a cult..
Which is why I posted what I did. My findings and your answers prove that. Ever wonder why alot of professional people who are learned and educated are not Masons. You say President Bush is a mason , he may well be but I have a skull and cross bones pin myself. Yet I do not bash other people who are not masons who disagree with me. Using learnings and knowledge and Wisdom is the key. I could bost and could tell you things about me , but you in your uneducated mind would still bash and dissect any and all meassage to suit your needs , just once I would like for you to not use your mouse to dissect and bash and come up with some learned wisdom from your teachings on freemasonary. For what you post and dissect is not what freemasonary is about , and you know I am right.

Many Blessings

Originally posted by zman
You asked me for explainations concerning why Freemasons are a cult . I showed not only you , but everyone who reads these post.

Actually, as a neutral observer, I don't think you've done that; in fact, I think by using sources that are less than credible and making wild claims without substantiating them, you have not helped your case at all. Honestly, I think you're making yourself look foolish and the Masons look sensible.

Do you have some credible sources you can cite? For example, if I were researching religious or quasi-religious organizations, one place I might start is:

University of Virginia Religious Movements Home Page: religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu...
(by the way, you might want to check out the article they have on that page titled "Conceptualizing 'Cult' and 'Sect'").

In a few years of lurking at this site, one thing I've noticed is that very few people here really understand proper research techniques and even fewer seem to be able to distinguish a reliable source from an unreliable one.