are you guys religious?

Yes I 'm a religious person. I'm a practising Catholic. Yes Muslims believe in hell and heaven.

Let us examined what has been said:
1. CyberGhost asks a question - are you guys religious
2. jagdflieger responds - yes, there are Christians, Muslims, maybe some Hindus. Go to Religion & Spirituality to get ideas. By the way I am Calvinist Christian.
3. joshter asks what is Calvinism.
4. jagdflieger responds.
5. Thomas Crowne states well I don't agree with Calvinism - At this point everything is cool.
6. Illmatic67 jumps in with a statement about Calvinism.
7. jagdflieger states just why are you concerned about Christian doctrine, it is not your belief. How would you feel if a Christian jumped on you for some Islamic doctrine of yours or gets involved in a doctrinal dispute among muslims?
8. maynardsthirdeye jumps in with a statement that which seem to indicate that he is ignorant of the issues.
9. jagdflieger makes comment - you have shown ignorance of the subject (why no relevant comment was apparently made). Comment arguments among Christian doctrine should only be made by Christians - unless you believe the Bible, how can you make a stand on one side or the other. jagdflieger makes point - he stays out doctrinal disputes among Muslims - he is not qualified. Comment this action tends to make you look ignorant (notice the word tends).
10. In short I make point that Christians should not enter into doctrinal disputes of Muslims, Buddists, Hindus, Etc. Muslims should not enter into doctrinal disputes of Christians, Buddists, Hindus, etc. Buddists should not enter in doctrinal dispuctes of Christians, Muslims, Hindus, etc. Hindus should not enter into doctrinal disputes of Christians, Muslims, or Buddists.

Point 10.... Disagree completely, all discussions be they whatever system of belief are open to any input by any member who is prepared to offer insight from there perspective.



[Edited on 4-8-2003 by Toltec]

Originally posted by Toltec
Point 10.... Disagree completely, all discussions be they whatever system of belief are open to any input by any member who is prepared to offer insight from there perspective.



[Edited on 4-8-2003 by Toltec]

Oh for golly sakes!!

Jagd was not saying a member can not comment thusly, he was saying that if you are ignorant, you should not comment on anothers belief system without studying..............jeez. Put the Badge away for a minute.

blah,blah...

Quote from Toltec
Point 10.... Disagree completely, all discussions be they whatever system of belief are open to any input buy any member who is prepared to offer insight from there perspective.

Well no can stop you, but be prepared for a rebuff from either side with a statement on the order, "What is it to you? It is not your belief system. Are you a (......)? And what difference it makes to you?" Fill in (.....) with any of the following: Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Buddist, Zoarasterian, etc. As for me, I would not generally enter into a dispute between members of the same religion over matters of doctrine internal to that religion with the possible exception to politely question what the issues are involved so that I could better understand what the dispute is about. However, I would never make a statement which would be construed as supporting one side of the dispute or the other. I am not qualified to make such judgements (as to matters of belief to other than my own (i. e., Muslims, Hindus, Buddists, etc.).

Terrific whatever.....

I felt what I needed to be said I said that is my right.

just as you felt what you needed to say was your right

That is my point

That you feel what I said was what you thought I said from the point you presented it is not my problem.

While you are entitled to you opinion as to what I said.

What I said, its relationship to why I said it has nothing to do with me (this in respect to what you think).

I am not someone you know and neither am I like someone you know.



Perhaps you should put you insecurities in your pocket during your next response.

Because from my point of view it sounds like you are overreacting and as well seemingly very sensitive

Any thoughts?



[Edited on 4-8-2003 by Toltec]

Originally posted by CyberGhost
i mean there are ghost, there is OBE, there are lots of things, so there must be Heaven and Hell, aren't you afraid that you'll go to hell and get tortured forever

[Edited on 3-8-2003 by CyberGhost]

I'm very religious, but I have to point out that ghosts and OBEs do not prove heaven or hell, and that not all religions believe in such things.

Originally posted by Illmatic67
Don't even come with that "this is a christian family dispute" because that's nothing but BS.

Christians always argue with themselves. Your the little slut for saying what you did. I used to be a Christian so trust me I know a thing or two about the religion and your Calvinist religion is Christianity in the negative sense.

Don't take this the wrong way, friend, but you saying that you were Christian holds no water with me. You k=may have gone to a Christian church, but your knowledge of the belief is pretty rusty. Also, had you been a Christian, filled with the Holy Ghost, you wouldn't be NOI now.

While I can't see how one can believe that only those God chooses will be saved and at the same time fullfill the Great Commission is beyond me, were I to believe the first, I wouldn't bother with the second. But that is beside the point, That would be between two Christians to figure out, and in a brotherly, knowledge-seeking way as the Bible warns us not to argue the Bible in such a manner that could easily happen in such topics.

Right on Thomas. The other guys (Muslims, Hindus - if there are any here, Buddists, etc) would probably be mightily p*ssed if a Christian were to jump into one of their disputes over doctrine by taking sides.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne

Originally posted by Illmatic67
Don't even come with that "this is a christian family dispute" because that's nothing but BS.

Christians always argue with themselves. Your the little slut for saying what you did. I used to be a Christian so trust me I know a thing or two about the religion and your Calvinist religion is Christianity in the negative sense.

Don't take this the wrong way, friend, but you saying that you were Christian holds no water with me. You k=may have gone to a Christian church, but your knowledge of the belief is pretty rusty. Also, had you been a Christian, filled with the Holy Ghost, you wouldn't be NOI now.

While I can't see how one can believe that only those God chooses will be saved and at the same time fullfill the Great Commission is beyond me, were I to believe the first, I wouldn't bother with the second. But that is beside the point, That would be between two Christians to figure out, and in a brotherly, knowledge-seeking way as the Bible warns us not to argue the Bible in such a manner that could easily happen in such topics.

What does NOI mean?

NOI = Nation of Islam

With respect to the various systems of relgions this is a good link.....

www.religioustolerance.org...

Toltec I have gotten better results by using google and entering the appropriate term (Krishna, Sakya Buddha, Hindu, etc.). This normally gets you into a more extensive number of sites to investigate (budda.net, hindu.net etc).

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne

Originally posted by Illmatic67
Don't even come with that "this is a christian family dispute" because that's nothing but BS.

Christians always argue with themselves. Your the little slut for saying what you did. I used to be a Christian so trust me I know a thing or two about the religion and your Calvinist religion is Christianity in the negative sense.

Don't take this the wrong way, friend, but you saying that you were Christian holds no water with me. You k=may have gone to a Christian church, but your knowledge of the belief is pretty rusty. Also, had you been a Christian, filled with the Holy Ghost, you wouldn't be NOI now.

While I can't see how one can believe that only those God chooses will be saved and at the same time fullfill the Great Commission is beyond me, were I to believe the first, I wouldn't bother with the second. But that is beside the point, That would be between two Christians to figure out, and in a brotherly, knowledge-seeking way as the Bible warns us not to argue the Bible in such a manner that could easily happen in such topics.

Well I'm not so sure Thomas. If he found Christianity not to his liking, I don't know if it would be difficult to change. But I don't know. It is just my opinion.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne

Don't take this the wrong way, friend, but you saying that you were Christian holds no water with me. You k=may have gone to a Christian church, but your knowledge of the belief is pretty rusty. Also, had you been a Christian, filled with the Holy Ghost, you wouldn't be NOI now.

While I can't see how one can believe that only those God chooses will be saved and at the same time fullfill the Great Commission is beyond me, were I to believe the first, I wouldn't bother with the second. But that is beside the point, That would be between two Christians to figure out, and in a brotherly, knowledge-seeking way as the Bible warns us not to argue the Bible in such a manner that could easily happen in such topics.

Thomas, again, you seem to prove to me that your suffering from memory lapse. How many times do I have to tell you that I'm not with the Nation. That comes to show you how much you know about the Islamic faith because if you knew anything, you'd know the Nation contradicts Orthodox Islam.

And trust me, I don't know just a little bit about Christianity, I know a lot, seeing that I used to be one. And I didnt go to a Christian church once, I went every Saturday like most other Christians.

Many Christians, inluding missionaries and pastors, have converted to Islam. I don't seem to know the problem.

Islam is not for everyone
Christianity is not for everyone
Judaism is not for everyone.

I use Webferret as well as Google. Jag this site is one I had for quite some time I find it to be a good quick reference which allows the reader the opportunity to get more than just the basics. But not so much it does not overcome them in respect to learning about all the various faiths it covers.

Enjoy it, its a really good site in that respect.

some of the posters in this thread and their views are just one of many reasons why i am not religious.

i am spiritual but i do not practice nor prescribe to any religion. i share some religious type beliefs but does this make me religious? i think not but some could argue otherwise.

of course its all a matter of perception. isnt it?




and in reference to some people who think others should basically mind their own business when it comes to religions they dont practice....how else can others learn and accept other religions and those who practice them if noone talks about such things? this "stick to what you know" mindset is what has continued to divide people and keep them from getting a long.

religion is for everyone and can be discussed by everyone. noone has the right to tell others what they can and cant talk about.

the best thing that can be done is to discuss religion freely with an open mind. not to tell others to basically mind their own business and to shut their trap.

and i have found some who practice religion who are more than happy to discuss their religion with those who do not practice it and even debate it.


someone used the term ignorant slut earlier in this thread. how can people not be ignorant if you tell them not to talk about what they are trying to learn?

you cant learn if there is no communication. instead of telling people to shut up try being more open to teaching others what you know.

sure beats calling them ignorant sluts.

Well Toltec, I have copied the site you listed into my files for future reference. Will look into it more in the future, but right now I up to my eyebrows with Buddhist, Hindu, and Krishna literature - I don't have time to study anyone else except the major players (and of course study of the Bible).

Sorry, '67, if you've corrected me in the past as I didn't see the correction, its just that many examples of your positions are more in line with NOI instead of any orthodox "denomination".
As far as your being a knowledgeable Christian, you may have been, but there is no proof of that now, not by what you claim of Christianity since I've had the pleasure of speaking with you here at this board. Also, the true and correct religion is for everyone. The true and correct God is for everyone. To say that the true and correct system of belief is not for everyone is like saying air isn't for everyone.

I am not religious i do go to church at xmas but that is the only time i go.