are you guys religious?

i mean there are ghost, there is OBE, there are lots of things, so there must be Heaven and Hell, aren't you afraid that you'll go to hell and get tortured forever

[Edited on 3-8-2003 by CyberGhost]

We'll my Religion does not believe in hell, and nor do alot of religions.
We dont beleive in heaven either, correct me if im wrong but those are beliefs of christians only, im not sure if islam believes in it aswell.
Deep

Some of us are Christians, some are Muslims, there might be a couple on Hindus, quite a few atheists. If you want a sampling of religious beliefs at ATS, go to the Religion & Spirituality forum. As for me, most everybody here hates my guts because I am a Calvinist Christian.

Originally posted by CyberGhost
i mean there are ghost, there is OBE, there are lots of things, so there must be Heaven and Hell, aren't you afraid that you'll go to hell and get tortured forever

[Edited on 3-8-2003 by CyberGhost]

No, since I don't think that a just and loving God would allow people to go to Hell don't you think?

And jagdflieger, no one hates you because you are a Calvinist. They just don't agree with some theories.

I've never heard of it before... what in the world is a Calvinist Christian?

John Calvin was a Christian theologian would was contempary with Martin Luther. Calvin advocated a theology based on the concept of what is called predestination - that God "elects" those He choses to save and then reveals himself to that person in such a manner that he becomes a believer. The basics of Calvinism can be summed up with the word "TULIP".
T - Totally depraved. Man can do nothing for his own spritual good including the acceptance of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Unconditional election - God choses whom He wishes to save
Limited atonement - Jesus died only for the sins of those who will be saved.
Irresistible Grace - When God calls his elect into salvation, they cannot resist.
Perseverance of the Saints - once saved, always saved.

I kind of like the idea of that, I'm going to learn more about it right now.

I can't quite agree with that position as it ignores warnings in the Bible that would not be necessary if that were the case, but I certainly do not hate your guts, you old fart!

Personally, I am religious about many things (taking vitamins and having a beer a day, for examples) but what you might call a religion is to me a relationship with a God that sacrificed Himself so that I may be saved.

Calvinist Christianity is nothing Christianity. It contradicts the very belief of Christianity- Salvation for all.

The idea that God only elects whoever He wants for salvation is ridiculous. Then are the rest just walking zombies with no point of living?

Remember Jesus on the cross when he told the sinner and they would both be in paradise.

T - Totally depraved. Man can do nothing for his own spritual good including the acceptance of the Lord Jesus Christ

Ridiculous. Christianity is all about the love for Jesus Christ and his salvation for all mankind, not just a select few. Have you Calvinists read the NT?

I don't mean to bash your religion, but I can understand why people will 'hate your guts'.

Well Thomas, I did not include you as one of those who hates my guts and if you do not want to agree with me then that is a matter of doctrine differences between Christian brothers. Any argument or disagreement over the subject is a family fight and maybe should be kept private. But my attitude is "Give me that old time religion, that old time religion - If it was good enough for Calvin, then it's good enough for me".

Illmatic67 who are you to be concerned with matters of Christian doctrine? Why would you become involved in a belief system to which you do not subscribe? How would you feel if a Christian jumped into a middle of a doctrine argument of Muslims. This is a family fight among Christians.

Maybe it is better to have a Moslem's opinion. We could have an opinion that isn't biased towards Christianity.

maynardsthirdeye you have just shown TOTAL IGNORANCE of the subject matter of Calvinism. John Calvin was a CHRISTIAN theologian contemporay to Martin Luther who developed a theology called Lutherism. The question of Calvinism vs Lutherism or any other Christian theology is a mater dealing with Christian doctrines which are internal to the Christian Faith. Such discussion or arguments dealing with such doctrinal stances are of concern to Christians only. Unless you profess Lord Jesus Christ as you personal savior then you ARE NOT QUALIFIED to make judgements on Christian doctrine. Just as I would not become involved in a doctrinal dispute among Muslims unless the results of such a dispute could pose a clear and present danger to me or others, then non-Christians should not become involved in Christian doctrinal disputes. When people outside the Christian faith become involved in Christian doctrinal disputes, they tend to show themselves as being ingnorant sluts.

Jag your a Calvinist I was actually confirmed Lutheran.

No one hate's you here Jag as far as opinions with respect to Christianity, just because a person does not accept Jesus as savior does not mean he or she is educated enough to respond or converse on the topic.

To imply otherwise can be construed as a discriminatory assumption religious wise.

As far as family ATS is a family despite creed, color, religious affiliation or orientation or for that matter race, disability or even type of computer.

Yes, am religious and with respect to Jesus Christ my tribe acknowledges the existence of Jesus Christ due to his presence in the Western Hemisphere after his death and resurrection.

He was incredible, so much so he was made first emperor of the Toltec empire.

So many questions answered, he was acclaimed as one who returned to us the most ancient of way's.

Any thoughts?

[Edited on 3-8-2003 by Toltec]

Originally posted by jagdflieger
maynardsthirdeye you have just shown TOTAL IGNORANCE of the subject matter of Calvinism. John Calvin was a CHRISTIAN theologian contemporay to Martin Luther who developed a theology called Lutherism. The question of Calvinism vs Lutherism or any other Christian theology is a mater dealing with Christian doctrines which are internal to the Christian Faith. Such discussion or arguments dealing with such doctrinal stances are of concern to Christians only. Unless you profess Lord Jesus Christ as you personal savior then you ARE NOT QUALIFIED to make judgements on Christian doctrine. Just as I would not become involved in a doctrinal dispute among Muslims unless the results of such a dispute could pose a clear and present danger to me or others, then non-Christians should not become involved in Christian doctrinal disputes. When people outside the Christian faith become involved in Christian doctrinal disputes, they tend to show themselves as being ingnorant sluts.

You call people ignorant sluts and yet you wonder why others don't like you.

I do not become involved in argument among Muslims on matters of Muslim doctrine because I am not a Muslim; I do not become involved in matters of Hindu practice among Hindus because I am not a Hindu, etc. Certain questions and arguments on matters of belief should only be argued by those who practice that belief.
Yes Toltec, you may be have been raised a Luthern, but unless you are a currently practicing Christian, they you are no longer qualified to enter into an argument of doctrine among Christians. How can a person who does not profess Jesus Christ and who does not believe in the Bible make a judgement of doctrines based on the Bilble and the teachings of Jesus Christ. Also here again, I called no one an ignorant slut. You have misread my posting. Just who did I call an ignorant slut. Futhermore two people who I presume from their previous postings jumped into a discussion between two Christians over matters of doctrine. I simply pointed out that since they were not Christians then they should not join in an argument between Christians over matters of faith.

1.) I am more spiritual than I am religious, but because my faith is based on the doctrine of the christian religion I will answer this YES, I am religious.

2.) No, see 1.) above.

Don't even come with that "this is a christian family dispute" because that's nothing but BS.

Christians always argue with themselves. Your the little slut for saying what you did. I used to be a Christian so trust me I know a thing or two about the religion and your Calvinist religion is Christianity in the negative sense.

Jag what you seem to misunderstand is that as far as what I know and have been taught I am a practicing Christian, that you feel differently is not something I concern myself over.

You seem to fail to see the reality of the situation Jesus Christ was a man the bible is a book they are not the same.

My qualifications are not subject to you personal interpretation and neither is the life of Jesus or for
that matter his intent.

That you feel otherwise is irrelevant and for the record I was raised with respect to several vocations; Toltec, Buddhist, Shinto, Judaic, Catholic and Lutheran (in that order).

I have actually been to the Vatican and seen what is behind there closed doors.

When one says the lords prayer Jag its important to remember it is in the Talmud.

My qualifications include the fact I minored in religion in regard to a Bachelors in Arts, as well as an extensive background in respect to several vocations which relate to the subject of religion (I was also part of a team which was involved in an exorcism).

Any thoughts?

The only religion is to oneself. I call it selfism!
All the other 'isms' in the world are there to trap, manipulate and divide mankind for the benefit of THEM.

FREE YOUR MIND, AND THE REST WILL FOLLOW - Soul II Soul.