Crop Circles 2005

Originally posted by HowardRoark
They are also works of vandalism, akin to spray painting your name on the side of a building, only worse since they are costing the farmers revenue from lost crops.

And yes, AFAIAC, they are all fake.

....

Well since there are a number of people that have admitted making them, yes, they are hoax's

Damn pranksters and their plank of wood and string and ability to constently create these astonishing works of art and examples of advanced geometry in just a few hours at night time without ever being caught in the act. When will the youth of today get a real hobby?? I blame the parents personally, how about you Howard?










Here's some real hoaxes.






Howard "Where's the proof" Roak has spoken people and he's even linked to a website. Case closed, nothing to see here, move along, think of the poor farmers, there's no greater cause than a laugh by some evil genius prankster. It's just petty graffiti.





[edit on 7-8-2005 by TheShroudOfMemphis]

How do you know it only takes a few hours?

Have you ever wondered who "finds" these things anyways?

And yes, AFAIAC, they are all fake.

Howard please inform yourself before saying so much crap. Some of these crop circles are not man made. One of the signatures of the genuine crop circles are the anomalies of nodes which are bent/elongated or exploded. Scientific studies have concluded that this is due to an extreme heat and this is consistent with the tons of reports of strange balls of light seen above these crop circles.

If you are informed as well about crop circles as about 9/11 i understand now why you believe the official story...

[edit on 7/8/2005 by Musclor]

Originally posted by HowardRoark
How do you know it only takes a few hours?

Have you ever wondered who "finds" these things anyways?

Howard, you don't have to be frightened of the unknown.
It's OK to believe there is a power greater than yourself at work here.

Why don't you use your powers of deduction to try and work out the message being delivered instead of assuming it's pranksters with wood and string because deep down you know no human could make some of these during the night undetected.

Be the one who cracks the code, there's a challange for you - one much more exciting than a boring brush off because theres no logical explaination which doesn't point to the stars - liven up your world man, walk out on a branch for once and feel the breeze. Take a look at some sites which have ventured into the maths behind some of these designs, your into maths aren't you? Imagine being the one who works out the message! Much more interesting than being the one who constantly refuses to think out side his own limitations. What are you scared to find out?

From your questions, it seems like you haven't done much research into Crop Circles. It is a very interesting topic, one that goes well beyond a hoax if you focus on the right areas of research.




[edit on 7-8-2005 by TheShroudOfMemphis]

Originally posted by whaaa
I think some crop graphics are computer graphics executed from satelittes with microwave beams.

Microwave beams from space pose problems:
To work sufficiently fast, they would have to burn (and yield some dead birds and insects), of which we have no notice.
To work sufficiently slow, they would take days and the plants would not be so perfectly matted. And probably this would result in drying, not bending.
And the result of burning or simple temperature increase is more chaotic, not ordered.

Not counting the dubious idea that we have at this moment satellites in space capable of transmitting microwaves.

As to the theory of hoaxers, it simply does not make sense:
Too many drawings.
Drawings too perfect.
Drawings close to well-visited places.
Drawings appearing overnight or over a few nights.
Hoaxers never found.
Explanation of hoaxing procedure insufficient.

"Microwaves", or "ball lightning", or "hoaxers" won't do because they are just partial explanations.

Whatever it is, it is able to manipulate matter in complex and meaningful ways and at close distance.

Ya some of those simple designs I bet are human but man there are some very intricit and complex ones that suggest otherwise. And not to mention american nuclear physicists found radioactive isotopes in the soil in genuine crop cricles. Link....

www.lovely.clara.net...

There are indeed hoaxes & there may be a scientific reason behind these formations but to dismiss them all as elaborate hoaxes is just ignorance IMO.
Not everything unknown is of extraterestrial origin but it's up to us to find conclusive answers to these unknown mysteries of our planet. It doesn't help when you get people like Howard unwilling to open their minds to the alternative theories other than his own.
At the end of the day were all wanting the same thing, to know the truth & to understand that which is unknown to us.
Back on topic..
The evidence that the researchers have been investigating in the "Real" crop circles seems to point at some sort of ultrasound/microwave emission but it's unknown whether perhaps it is a natural occuring phenomenon or whether it's been caused by a device of unknown origin.
I think there could be a link between stone circles/ ley lines etc. to this phenomenon but we need more serious research into it.

After subjecting a number of seed and soil samples to rigorous lab analysis, their main discovery was that the soil in genuine formations contained no less than four, short-lived radioactive isotopes- vanadium, europium, tellurium, and ytterbium.

"these isotopes are not known to be produced in nature, nor are they known to be emissions from atomic tests, nuclear power plants or Chernobyl."

We carefully considered a variety of other mundane causes: natural radionuclides, cosmogenetic radionuclides, sample jar contamination, airport X-ray detectors, thermal neutron activators, and contamination with hospital waste by hoaxers. None of them held up as valid sources.

"Many of these probable sources were ruled out by the fact that many of the isotopes had half-lives of about two weeks, which indicated that they had been formed when the crop circle itself was."

This evidence presents hoax theorists with their most serious difficulty.

Quote's taken from www.lovely.clara.net...

[edit on 7-8-2005 by DarkCyrus]

[edit on 7-8-2005 by DarkCyrus]

Originally posted by DarkCyrus

After subjecting a number of seed and soil samples to rigorous lab analysis, their main discovery was that the soil in genuine formations contained no less than four, short-lived radioactive isotopes- vanadium, europium, tellurium, and ytterbium.

"these isotopes are not known to be produced in nature, nor are they known to be emissions from atomic tests, nuclear power plants or Chernobyl."

We carefully considered a variety of other mundane causes: natural radionuclides, cosmogenetic radionuclides, sample jar contamination, airport X-ray detectors, thermal neutron activators, and contamination with hospital waste by hoaxers. None of them held up as valid sources.

"Many of these probable sources were ruled out by the fact that many of the isotopes had half-lives of about two weeks, which indicated that they had been formed when the crop circle itself was."

This evidence presents hoax theorists with their most serious difficulty.

Now that's the kind of research I like to see. It is a terrible shame that the debukers with the assistance of hoaxers managed such a thorough job on this subject. The majority of people now just brush off all circles as hoaxed. I'm still on the fence, but the more serious research I read like that the more I will be swayed. I don't doubt that a large number of circles are hoaxed, especially after visiting circlemakers.org because those guys are artists, but even they make reference to 'genuine' circlemakers. They also make reference to other teams across the world who are professional hoaxers. Time will tell. And to Howard......Deny Ignorance.

A lot of crop circles from what I heard are also maps to some other solar systems.And also some are notes to the cosmos as far as supervision of other species.Maybe a direct letter saying, that we are watching you and know what you are up to.These being obtrusive aliens.I find these crop circles very interesting indeed.

If you are informed as well about crop circles as about 9/11 i understand now why you believe the official story...

What? I'm ok with a little conspiracy such as the roswell crash or that presented in the disclosure project, but are you insisting that 9/11 was some sort of cover-up? If you do, I'd have to say you are gullable. If you insist that believing 9/11 was staged or whatever, would you mind providing me with evidence, either here or prefferably in a private message so we don't go too off topic.

On topic:

I'm not going to hold any certain position here. It is apparent to me that many crop circles are faked, and that humans are capable of making very elaborate crop circle designs, meaning it is possible for humans to have created all the crop circles out there. But I don't neccessarily believe one way or the other because I do recognize that there is some evidence that the crops have undergone molecular change in the alledged "genuine" circles; but I have also heard from other sources that the evidence for "bent nodes" is faulty. Would someone please enlighten me more on the subject?

[edit on 7-8-2005 by DaTerminator]

Originally posted by menguard
A lot of crop circles from what I heard are also maps to some other solar systems.And also some are notes to the cosmos as far as supervision of other species.Maybe a direct letter saying, that we are watching you and know what you are up to.These being obtrusive aliens.I find these crop circles very interesting indeed.

So a race capable of traveling interstellar distances leaves maps by stomping them in fields of wheat?

What a technological breakthrough!

I don't know the fake really look fake as far as symmetry and geometric shapes.I would like to take a look at some that are perfect circles and other geometric shapes that are fake.

[edit on 7-8-2005 by menguard]

Originally posted by Musclor

And yes, AFAIAC, they are all fake.

Howard please inform yourself before saying so much crap. Some of these crop circles are not man made. One of the signatures of the genuine crop circles are the anomalies of nodes which are bent/elongated or exploded. Scientific studies have concluded that this is due to an extreme heat and this is consistent with the tons of reports of strange balls of light seen above these crop circles.

If you are informed as well about crop circles as about 9/11 i understand now why you believe the official story...

[edit on 7/8/2005 by Musclor]

node nonsense

Let me ask you one simple question.

What is your estimate of the percentage of crop circles that are not hoaxes?

What is that based on?

I think putting the hoaxes aside and focusing on the REAL ones which contain REAL messages, there is something here that we need to catch on too.
I always wondered why scientists assume that life forms in the Universe would instantly understand our messages, for example the Voyager Golden Record we sent out. To me, it looks like a message made up of symbols and information similar to how crop circles are presented to us and only because we are familiar with that technology does it make sense.


Gold Disc Explained Here

So upon recieving something like this, we are in return given symbols which to "them" probably make all the sense in the world also. What we need to do is work out where the message is in these symbols. Is it in the mathematics? Are crop circles all part of a collective equation? Is this why there are frauds, so the decoding is made harder by researchers?

There's something in these that we can learn from.

This one has always reminded me of a galaxy. The turning on a centre reminds me of the way a galaxy is born, or a blackhole is formed. Spinning mass faster and faster and closer and closer to a centered point, creates massive amounts of energy and light as seen in galaxies, with a theory being blackholes are actually intense ranges of light which look like nothingness to us because its range is well beyond our detectable abilities. Is this symbol a part of their explaination how they travel using light/energy/mass based of the spiral galaxy principle? Do they use Blackholes as worm holes to punch through the universe? Are they able to make mini-worm holes at their will because they understand the means needed to manipulate light?





There's something to these messages. Are they fed up with being blocked by the worlds governments? Are they trying to let the world know without being invasive and intrusive knowing full well that a sudden introduction of an advanced species on a lesser species can equal disaster?

Maybe these are the test? When we've cracked the code, they'll feel confident enough that we could understand their intentions without feeling threatened?

Who knows? But i can only laugh at people that think it's 'doug & dave' with their block of wood and string.




[edit on 7-8-2005 by TheShroudOfMemphis]

Lets look at this one from the point of view of the "CircleMakers", the team that publically make crop circles for commercial reasons and the only (known) group to be able to reproduce any kind of quality looking design.
Yet, even they know when they are beat, they can still acknowledge when a force greater than man makes designs.



17 August 2001: Awe inspiring, jaw dropping, mind warping, incomprehensible, bloody huge, are a few phrases that come to mind when viewing this years "finale" formation which was discovered on top of Milk Hill in Wiltshire above the White Horse on 13th August. It's difficult to take on board the sheer scale and complexity of this formation it spans ten tram lines and if you walked from one side of the formation to the other you would have covered approaching 1500ft! Compare that to the average diameter of formations this year which is approx 200ft.

Here's something to ponder, if this formation was man made allowing for time to get into and out of the field under cover of darkness the construction time left should be around four hours. Given that there are over 400 circles some of which span approx 70ft in diameter that would mean that one of those circles would need to be created every 30 seconds and that's not even allowing any time for the surveying, purely flattening, this formation pushes the envelope and that's a MASSIVE understatement... my brain hurts!



To give you some idea of the scale of the formation pictured above is an enlarged detail of the above photo showing just the center of the formation, we've ringed the area to indicate where someone is standing, you can barely see them, now can you see how massive the formation is!!!

www.circlemakers.org...







[edit on 7-8-2005 by TheShroudOfMemphis]

What is your estimate of the percentage of crop circles that are not hoaxes?

I think there is about 30% of genuine crop circles. But the number is not important. Even if it is 1% it means the same thing : some are genuine.

[edit on 8/8/2005 by Musclor]

See ATS Crop Circle, Debunkers (Insulters without Proof), are out and about today. Research never seems to be in their Debunkers resume (laugh).

Dallas

this is surely one phenomenon for debunkers to choke on

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis
Here's something to ponder, if this formation was man made allowing for time to get into and out of the field under cover of darkness the construction time left should be around four hours. Given that there are over 400 circles some of which span approx 70ft in diameter that would mean that one of those circles would need to be created every 30 seconds and that's not even allowing any time for the surveying, purely flattening, this formation pushes the envelope and that's a MASSIVE understatement... my brain hurts!

You are making a number of assumptions that you have not proven.

Assumption No. 1) You are assuming that this was all done in one shot.
Can you prove this? Do you have aerial photos from the day before they were discovered? At the very least, the “artists” could have easily completed the layout days (or nights) before the actual circles would have been made. All you would need is a GPS, some and some stakes to mark the centers of the circles. Who would know that they were there?

Assumption 2: I takes a long time to stomp out a circle in wheat.
I think it has been proven time and time again, that this is not true.

Assumption 3: this was all done at night.
Again, like assumption 1, you have no definite proof of this. I take it that these fields are out n the middle of nowhere. Who’s out there to notice anything?

Assumption 4: There was only one or two people involved.
What if there were more? The preponderance of these complex designs suggests that there is an organized group perpetrating this hoax.

Assumption No. 5: This design was created in 4 hours.
Again, what proof do you have? What if it took 9 hours? (from 9:00 pm to 6:00am) if 8 people participated, that would average 10 minutes per circle. Since most of the circles are in fact very small. That is more than enough time.