The Consequences of a TRUMP win will be disastrous to world peace

a reply to: crayzeed

All you BSters going on about Trump talks to Putin, Trump talks to Ping, think on those pictures in WW2 of Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin.

I think those photos reminded me more of Chamberlain talking to Hitler in Munich than anything else.

originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: theatreboy

There wasn't any world peace under Trump. US airstrikes and civillian deaths in paticular sky rocketed to more than double the ammount during Obama's eight years as President.

Warhawk John Bolton was in charge and the US was engaged in a number of new wars across Africa targetting Jihadi groups and massively expanded use of private military contractors to keep the new conflicts off the books and avoid the usual oversight and transparency requirements.

Bureau Investigative Journalism Report

US Shadow Wars 2010 - 2020

Ummm…precisely…Trump is a warmonger…just listen to him beating that Israeli war drum…

He’s a liar and a sellout to the MIC and the deep state…instead of cleaning out the swamp…he dove in head first and is currently doing the backstroke reach around…

He’s just another two faced politician speaking out of both sides of his flap trap…






YouSir

a reply to: DUNE2

Oh yes and it will be an awesome ending to the Asshats running this planet into the ground trying to de populate so they can have it all to themselves. They believe "they know better for humanity". I believe they are sick and need to hang by the neck and the pedos executed should be left for the Vultures, but that might be too hard on children later.

originally posted by: DUNE2

My prediction for Ukraine is that early in the new year when Trump has just been sworn in, Russia will use tactical nuclear weapons to bring Ukraine to its knees, knowing Trump hasn't got the stomach to respond in kind, this then leads Russia to go

So, you are talking about a guy that killed a top Iranian official in Iraq, a guy that was the first to authorize the use of a MOAB in combat, told the Taliban leader if an American dies he will kill him and his family, and showed pictures of the guy's house to him.

If Trump wins the war will be over and Ukraine will need to give up the Donbass area most likely.

a reply to: Xtrozero

If Trump wins the war will be over and Ukraine will need to give up the Donbass area most likely.

Just like we gave the Sudetenland to Hitler?

a reply to: DUNE2

I doubt that Putin will use tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine, especially now that the Russians are advancing in Donbas. If such was his intention, he would have done that earlier during the Ukrainian counter-offensive. However, Putin may hope that if Trump wins, he will cut the funding for Ukraine.

Not sure about Taiwan. Xi wants it very much and it seems the Chinese are planning an invasion. I don't think it matters here who wins the US elections.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Xtrozero

If Trump wins the war will be over and Ukraine will need to give up the Donbass area most likely.

Just like we gave the Sudetenland to Hitler?

Ummm…no…not like that at all…


More like how we gave self determination to Kosovo…then recognized it as it’s own country…

Your country and my country…along with the other NATO vassal states carved Kosovo…because of persecution and ethnic cleansing…out of Serbia and called it the worlds newest country…

So Russia does the same thing to eastern Ukraine…and the people in Donetsk…Lugansk…Zaporozhye and Kherson…because of persecution and ethnic cleansing…vote separate themselves from Ukraine…and become Russia…

Yet somehow in your mind…that’s different…because…Russia…Russia…Russia…

Disconnect…anyone…?



YouSir

Yeah so Ukraine has fought Russia to stand still but now the US is going to abandon Taiwan? That makes zero sense.

#2 The use of even small tactical nukes would enflame the rest of the world Russia and Putin would be even more of a pariah than it is now.

#3 America is tired of Europe's paranoia and anxiety if after 70 years of NATO UK and Europe can't handle Russia, it is hardly Trump's fault. In any likely settlement, Ukraine will keep Donetsk and Lughantz while Russia keeps Crimea. It's not ideal but unless there is a big stink thats how it ends. Russia wants sanctions removed and has pretty much pounded those 2 oblast into the mud so they have a buffer zone for a while.

#4 Nothing has changed in our military stance on Taiwan the US will defend against a Chinese invasion of Taiwan. China does not have to run an amphibious assault on Taiwan, they have robust artillery defenses. China taking Taiwan militarily isn't a foregone conclusion, some indicators that China knows their positives for taking Taiwan are drowned out by the negatives.

Taiwan will resist with or without help but it's highly likely they will have American help, American military doctrine keeps China occupied in the Pacific and has been around for decades

Anything else is just paranoia because you live next door, perhaps start a fake dossier on Putin and see if you can change the Russian Elections?

The reality is Russia wants the sanctions to end and to be able to resume commerce with the rest of the world, they have tamped down their "NAZI threat" from Ukraine and could benefit from the time to rebuild and remold its military.

No doubt the SMO has been a rude awakening, Russia now has Europe/UK MIC fully engaged, they would have serious trouble with Poland, Germany, France, and the UK, and again as for NATO Trump has said repeatedly all he wanted was for the UK/Europe to pay thier fair share of the expense. THE AMERICAN REALITY for the likely Trump voters

FWIW, this is just some raw data from early voting, the election is going to be close all indications are the Rust Belt 3 Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan must be won by Harris to have any chance.

FWIW America MSM is pushing your narrative to the hilt, it's the obvious Harris/Walz narrative but it doesn't resonate with the American voter.
www.pbs.org...

Also FWIW

www.foreignaffairs.com... › ukraine › what-us-election-means-ukraine
What the U.S. Election Means for Ukraine: A Trump Win Would Cause a ...
Sep 25, 2024Even if Trump wins and cuts off U.S. support before an offensive can begin, the continued development of Ukraine's industrial base and drone production facilities, improved maintenance capabilities for Western-provided weapons and equipment, and the training and

OSZ
@OpenSourceZone
Orange County, California early vote, 2020 vs 2024

2020
🔵34,185
🔴19,933
🟡16,325
TOTAL: 70,443, +14,252

2024
🔴27,812
🔵26,588
🟡16,815
TOTAL 71,215, +1,224

California is almost-all VBM state now, with 86.72% voting by mail in 2020, 88.64% in 2022
OSZ
@OpenSourceZone


OSZ
@OpenSourceZone
Nevada Mail voting update
Total ballots returned: 6,304

🔴 Republican 43.1% | 2,720 votes (+512)
⚪️ Other 29.3% | 1,847 votes (+291)
🔵 Democratic 27.6% | 1,737 votes (+299)

Clark Now included
Virginia Early vote Return 2020 vs 2024 (Projection)

2020
🔵60% (+28 )
🔴32%
🟡 7%
TOTAL: 1,804,460

2024
🔵53% (+15)
🔴38%
🟡9%
TOTAL: 704,847

Illinois early vote Return 2020 vs 2024

2020
🔵63% (+33 )
🔴30%
🟡 7%
TOTAL: 3,235,705

2024
🔵51% (+10)
🔴41%
🟡8%
TOTAL: 236,981


OSZ
@OpenSourceZone
2020 PA MAIL IN REQUESTS TO THIS DATE:
🔵Dems: 73.6%
🔴GOP: 26.4%

2024 PA MAIL IN REQUESTS
🔵Dems: 69.3%
🔴GOP: 30.7% (+4.3%)

2020 PA MAIL IN BALLOT RETURNS
🔵Dems: 84.5%
🔴GOP: 15.5%

2024 PA MAIL IN BALLOT RETURNS
🔵Dems: 79.5%
🔴GOP: 20.5% (+5%)

How on Earth has it got this stage , its even more crazy to think this Trump Geezer is up for a third go

Thought i would check him out on Wiki ,en.wikipedia.org...
Bloody hell what a numbskull , and that's being polite
Now im really scared .
Are you guys really going to put him at the head or your country , are we all in a Simpsoms episode ?

a reply to: DUNE2

Hmmmmm. Old accounts with almost no post history coming out of the woodwork to fearmonger.


Apparently, the Democrats are running on fear and desperation.

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: DUNE2

Hmmmmm. Old accounts with almost no post history coming out of the woodwork to fearmonger.


Apparently, the Democrats are running on fear and desperation.

Yes I agree the OP'S premise is flawed and

originally posted by: DUNE2
How on Earth has it got this stage , its even more crazy to think this Trump Geezer is up for a third go

Thought i would check him out on Wiki ,en.wikipedia.org...
Bloody hell what a numbskull , and that's being polite
Now im really scared .
Are you guys really going to put him at the head or your country , are we all in a Simpsoms episode ?

Yeah, you got it bad, you may want to consider unplugging for a while.

No matter who is President the military and MIC aren't going to let Russia/China run roughshod over whoever they please, Trump wants to concentrate domestically, and he wants relative peace internationally so war resources can be used elsewhere in America. Russia's starting point in negotiating is suggesting they want the territories they occupy, they might settle for a lot less. End sanctions slow Ukraine's acceptance into the EU etc. a couple of miles of DMZ buffer in the east and Crimea

a reply to: DAVID64

Apparently, the Democrats are running on fear and desperation.

That's all they have especially when they trot out such a piss poor candidate like Harris.

a reply to: DUNE2

The major flaw in your premise is that Trump WAS president for 4 years and Putin did NOT invade Ukraine.

Putin ONLY did when Biden/Harris were in office.

QED

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: DUNE2

Hmmmmm. Old accounts with almost no post history coming out of the woodwork to fearmonger.


Apparently, the Democrats are running on fear and desperation.

You forgot Hate!

They are using hate and calling the folks challenging their lies "the haters"... We can't make this stuff up fast enough to keep up with their "stupid is as stupid does" routine.

originally posted by: KrustyKrab
a reply to: DUNE2

No one would launch a retaliatory nuclear attack against Russia if they launched a nuke against Ukraine. I’ve said this many times here.

....

That's probably true, but you probably haven't thought through the consequences of that fact.

There are only two countries on the planet that have what could be called a nuclear war fighting capability--Russia and the US. Both countries have negotiated themselves down from possessing around 30,000 nuclear warheads each, at the peak of the Cold War to about 5,500 each, today. All other nuclear powers possess less than 1,000 nuclear warheads each. In most cases, it's only a few hundred, each.

Owning a few hundred nuclear warheads is enough for a country to deter another nuclear armed country from attacking, but it's not enough to go out looking to contemplate a war fighting nuclear exchange. For example, Russia could hypothetically conduct a first strike on either France or the UK with a mathematical probability of taking out all their nuclear armed airbases, fixed command and control centers, radars, etc. and still have plenty warheads left over to threaten French or British population centers with annihilation. However, the French and British nuclear submarines are presumably survivable and have enough warheads to take out all significant Russian population centers.

So if Russia used a nuclear weapon or weapons in Ukraine, neither France nor the UK would be in a position to launch a nuclear strike in retaliation. But neither would Russia be in any better position to threaten France or the UK than they are now.

And, since France and the UK are the only two nuclear powers in Europe, no other European country would be in a position to launch any kind of retaliatory strike against Russian territory, since those countries would then be subject to nuclear blackmail by Russia.

The fact is that the US is the only country on the planet that is in a position to deter Russia from a tactical nuclear attack on Ukraine (or any other country, for that matter) because we are the only country that could reply to a tactical nuclear attack with an entirely conventional and devastating counterattack on Russian forces while still deterring them from exerting nuclear blackmail on us. If we don't do it, no one else can.

And, according to multiple reporters with good track records and lots of informants in the US government, that's exactly what Biden told Putin that the US would do in the fall of 2022. At that point in time, the US intel community had been picking up communications from within the Kremlin that Putin was very seriously considering use of a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine. The DOD gamed out various responses and the Biden administration ended up telling Putin that if he did use a nuclear weapon, the US could not and would not let it slide--there would have to be a response. The plan was that if Russia used a nuclear weapon in Ukraine, the US would respond by taking out all Russian naval assets that could be reached with conventional weapons, without attacking the Russian homeland. The US and Russia would still be in a position of deterring each other from a direct nuclear exchange, but Russia would not be in a position of responding against the US with a similar conventional counterattack, because they do not have the global reach that we do. If Putin attacked a NATO country, that would be considered an attack on the US, by article 5 of the NATO treaty, and Putin himself would be considered a legitimate military target and would be targeted personally for extermination in the opening salvos of the counterattack.

The reason we are in that unique position is because we have systematically built it up through 80 years of treaties that give us the forward bases to be able to project military power any place on the planet. We've done that by convincing other countries NOT to develop nuclear weapons for themselves (because that is very much in our self-interest) and to give us basing rights in return for our promise to protect them with our nuclear umbrella. This is why WWIII has been avoided for 80 years even though there have been plenty of conventional wars and skirmishes around the world in those same 80 years.

For the US to unilaterally walk away from all that with zero thought as to what happens next is dangerously, pathologically stupid. Just the kind of thing Trump would do.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: DUNE2

The major flaw in your premise is that Trump WAS president for 4 years and Putin did NOT invade Ukraine.

Putin ONLY did when Biden/Harris were in office.

QED

Russia invaded Ukraine in Feb 2014 when Obama was in office by annexing Crimea and the conflict continued throughout Trump's Presidency, hence him selling weapons to Ukraine.

They switched to wearing Russian uniform instead of civillian clothes when Biden was President but all arms, tanks, generals, FSB/GRU, and 80% of troops were Russian who invaded mainland Ukraine in Aug 2014 onwards under the guise of 'humanitarian convoy' and Russian troops were 'on holiday' in DPR/LPR.

Oh gosh, I KNOW! I mean, look at all the wars and fighting that broke out while Donald Trump was at the helm! Think of last time but on STEROIDS! I don't even want to IMAGINE peace on steroids!