On UFO Secrecy and your right to know

Why do you think you have the RIGHT to UFO data?

Who or what gave you this right? God? There are those who think we have God-given rights. The US Declaration of Independence says so: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.- In Congress, July 4, 1776 The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

Notice there is no mention of knowledge there. The rights given by God are ethereal like equality and liberty. The U.S. Constitution proper says nothing about rights, and the Bill of Rights itself has nothing to do with education, knowledge, or secrets. Neither does any subsequent amendment.

The Code of Federal Regulations has many provisions about classification, including Title 32 on National Defense. The Big Elephant in the Room is, of course, the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) which is often cited as the basic portal through which to dislodge government secrets and has been around since 1967. As you might expect, there are numerous exceptions, the biggest one of which is national defense. If the government decides that whatever information you are asking for would compromise national defense, then it is exempt from disclosure. This even includes “sources and methods.” For example, if you are seeking a video on a UFO sighting, and giving it to you would expose a secret camera the US has developed, you won't get the video.

If we move on the the Rights of Taxpayers, which are often asserted to bolster the idea that the government owes us knowledge, all you see is taxpayer rights for appeals, resolutions, and fair treatment. Nothing about being a taxpayer, THEREFORE the government owes you.

The United States does not have a British-style Official Secrets Act. Instead, several laws protect classified information, including the Espionage Act of 1917, the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 and the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982. (Wikipedia) Reading through these acts can get pretty dense, These acts have a whole lot to do with keeping information FROM people rather than releasing information TO people. In other words, it is obvious they ensure some so-called “rights” are taken away from you, not provided to you.

The bottom line here is that you do not have the “rights” you think you have. That some program was funded by taxpayer money does not grant you access to that information. In fact, that argument is laughable. It's just silly. You can argue about this all you want, but it still won't work.

Who is arguing that we have a right to know?

ATS used to be about calling out the BS and trying to find out what the phenomenon is.

There is more than enough circumstantial evidence that our government, military, and MIC hide behind "it's Classified" and its probably to cover thier asses instead of protecting the public from harm.

What right would any government have to keep from the people of Earth the fact that we are not alone, that we are in contact with aliens? This is something which belongs to us all and not just a select greedy and corrupt few. What right do they have to control such information and withhold it from us?

originally posted by: ARM19688
What right would any government have to keep from the people of Earth the fact that we are not alone, that we are in contact with aliens? This is something which belongs to us all and not just a select greedy and corrupt few. What right do they have to control such information and withhold it from us?

What is this "right" based upon? Just your opinion. You have a "right" to an opinion, of course. It's a First Amendment issue. But your opinion doesn't give you any rights by itself. It's not codified anywhere. But classified information is. If you were to sue the government to release information, the governnment could present a copious amount of laws and regulations bolstering their case, including the big one: national security. You would have nothing at all. All you've got is that you don't like it.

a reply to: schuyler2

The real matter is control. They write themselves laws to make that possible, and they do a pretty damned good job of it. Nothing is more important to them than the control issue, and those tentacles of control reach everywhere.

That is especially the case when it seems evident that we are being bothered by sorties from far superior intelligent life from elsewhere. In this instance, control equates to denial which is partially due to the helpless position we find ourselves in, (governments and all), and the other part is that governments must control things, or they eventually are out of business. The current issue can break either way. Don't expect any grace in the long run. They know what they must do, win or bust.

originally posted by: putnam6
Who is arguing that we have a right to know?

ATS used to be about calling out the BS and trying to find out what the phenomenon is.

Nearly everyone who is for "disclosure." It is a most common refrain. ATS has been rather ineffectual about finding out what the phenomenon is. Raising your fist at "The Man" and claiming a right to know hasn't really workd very well.

a reply to: schuyler2

IF I have a "right" to life, do I not, therefore have a "right" to knowledge which may affect that life, up to, and inclusive of, knowledge regarding other lifeforms (and/or their agents, biological, mechanical, or "other") which might potentially restrict, harm, or terminate said life?

a reply to: schuyler2

The U.S. Federal Government (our government) has already admitted the UFO's exist and are mysterious. IMO - Any further information will come to all of us at the same time, if one crashes in a populated area, or reveals itself by landing or hovering over a populated area.

I have a right to not wait for the group think of the US government beholden to corporate interests before engaging my brain. I have a right to accept or dismiss any comment or information release made by anyone or any group. I have a right to make mistakes in forming my own world view and my place in it. I have a right to change my mind, acknowledge my mistakes, adapt, grow, do my own homework and form my own conclusions with all of the complicated topics that surround my existence.

With the level of secrets that continue around the UFO topic, I have a right a right to remain guarded and skeptical that the national interest is in conflict with an individuals interest.

originally posted by: schuyler2

originally posted by: ARM19688
What right would any government have to keep from the people of Earth the fact that we are not alone, that we are in contact with aliens? This is something which belongs to us all and not just a select greedy and corrupt few. What right do they have to control such information and withhold it from us?

What is this "right" based upon? Just your opinion. You have a "right" to an opinion, of course. It's a First Amendment issue. But your opinion doesn't give you any rights by itself. It's not codified anywhere. But classified information is. If you were to sue the government to release information, the governnment could present a copious amount of laws and regulations bolstering their case, including the big one: national security. You would have nothing at all. All you've got is that you don't like it.

Your entire thinking is wrong friend. Classified information? WHO decides that? Why should it be. I’m not thinking personally but as the human collective. Alien life is so huge it is a humanity sized issue and should be shared with humanity, not ‘classified’ by parasites and fools.

a reply to: schuyler2

Liberty: the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views:

One could argue that our right to Liberty is being compromised by our lack of knowledge on the subject. By not giving us UAP information, they are restricting our right to Liberty, and that sounds unconstitutional.

They can claim National Security all day long, but that's THEIR claim, not ours. We can't make a claim because we don't have the information needed. We are figuratively blindfolded, and gagged, and those are literal oppressive restrictions that deny us Liberty.

We can argue all day long, but there is one fact that everyone can agree on: There isn't a damn thing you, I or anyone else can do about it.

originally posted by: Mantiss2021
a reply to: schuyler2

IF I have a "right" to life, do I not, therefore have a "right" to knowledge which may affect that life, up to, and inclusive of, knowledge regarding other lifeforms (and/or their agents, biological, mechanical, or "other") which might potentially restrict, harm, or terminate said life?

You DO have a right to life (liberty, and the pursuit of happiness) According to the Declaration of Independence, this is a "God-given" right, not something "granted" by those in power. But "therefore have a "right" to knowledge" is not logical. It doesn't follow. It's like saying, "I have a right to life, therefore I have a right to education.

No, you don't.

originally posted by: kwaka
I have a right to not wait for the group think of the US government beholden to corporate interests before engaging my brain. I have a right to accept or dismiss any comment or information release made by anyone or any group.

Those rights are made up by you. They are certainly not "God given" and just where can you find a delineation of those rights except from yourself? There is no basis for these rights that you claim; they are just your opinion. From a legal perspective, they don't exist at all.

originally posted by: ARM19688

originally posted by: schuyler2

originally posted by: ARM19688
What right would any government have to keep from the people of Earth the fact that we are not alone, that we are in contact with aliens? This is something which belongs to us all and not just a select greedy and corrupt few. What right do they have to control such information and withhold it from us?

What is this "right" based upon? Just your opinion. You have a "right" to an opinion, of course. It's a First Amendment issue. But your opinion doesn't give you any rights by itself. It's not codified anywhere. But classified information is. If you were to sue the government to release information, the governnment could present a copious amount of laws and regulations bolstering their case, including the big one: national security. You would have nothing at all. All you've got is that you don't like it.

Your entire thinking is wrong friend. Classified information? WHO decides that? Why should it be. I’m not thinking personally but as the human collective. Alien life is so huge it is a humanity sized issue and should be shared with humanity, not ‘classified’ by parasites and fools.

TPTB decide what is classified and what is not. This is codified in dozens of laws and statutes which can be used to prosecute you for violating them. Your issue is that "it's so huge" that is "should be shared." That's a philosophical issue that cannot be found in any law book. You are just expressing an opinion of who is a parasite and a fool. Those same people may very well think that definition applies to you.

a reply to: schuyler2

Those rights are made up by you. They are certainly not "God given"

God made me. You want those rights, come and take them.

originally posted by: TaupinDesciple
a reply to: schuyler2

We can argue all day long, but there is one fact that everyone can agree on: There isn't a damn thing you, I or anyone else can do about it.

Exactly, because you don't have a "right" to the knowledge, no way to bring legal action against the secrecy. All anyone here has done so far is declare, "You are wrong!" and then present an opinion that these things ought not to be secret. But there is an extensive body of law that says it is legal to have secrets and legal to enforce them. So exactly what "right" supercedes this body of law? The response of government for the last 70 or more years has been,

"Go pound sand."

originally posted by: kwaka
a reply to: schuyler2

Those rights are made up by you. They are certainly not "God given"

God made me. You want those rights, come and take them.

If you say so, dude. Tough talk. You can't take away something you don't have in the first place.

a reply to: schuyler2

You can't take away something you don't have in the first place.

So are you saying I don't have a right to self determination? What has your government done to you?

a reply to: ARM19688

This is something which belongs to us all and not just a select greedy and corrupt few.

I think the OP is based on a legalistic and somewhat narrow interpretation of rights. Rights are not automatic or intrinsic but even so, a humanistic (or even a merely humane) philosophy must concede certain fundamental rights to all persons: the right to life is an obvious one, and I'm sure you can think of others.

But the right to know? How did you ever conclude that? For my part, I should find it far easier to argue for a right to keep other people from knowing -- the right to privacy, a right to keep certain things to myself.

Neither you, nor I, nor anyone else has a right to any knowledge about another person’s life apart for those facts which we, for reasons of utility, have agreed to maintain as matters of public record. Even about these, there is a great deal of doubt and controversy. Should your credit rating, for instance, be public? I bet not everyone here agrees that it should.

Governments, in particular, have no automatic obligation to share information with their citizens. The right to inspect public records, and to demand information from the state in the interest of the public weal, are rights that have been established, like all other citizenship rights, by the consent of a majority. At least that's how it works in democratically governed countries.

On the subject of visitors from outer space, or wherever it is they're supposed to be coming from, governments have absolutely no obligation to make what they know public. Quite probably they have good reasons for keeping it secret. My advice is to be careful what you ask for; you may not like what you get.

a reply to: kwaka

So are you saying I don't have a right to self determination?

Drifting off topic but still answerable, I think. You do, but that does not give you a right to other people's knowledge. Never has, never will.