Why Donald J Trump is a threat to Democracy and Normal Feedoms

1.www.washingtonpost.com... l

Hillary denying the election

2. apnews.com...
comrade K calling to take away trumps privileges and rights.

3. What exactly is free and independent about massive media conglomerates? Plus all he did was hold them accountable for actual fake news. “News media” is far more propaganda then factual goings on of the day. Always has been. It’s not like he was jailing journalists or calling for entire platforms to be censored….

4. Joe Biden extorting Ukraine www.wsj.com...

Obama illegal surveillance www.washingtonpost.com...

5.other posters have mentioned the literal plethora of calls to violence by media. Like an insane staggering amount.

6. As a none American looking in the only thing I can say is the sheer level of effort put into trying to dehumanize Trump is a sight to behold. It’s really like nothing before in any political arena I’ve seen.

7. What in the actual F are you talking about here. You’re so far off, so completely detached from reality I have no rebuttal for this. I cannot even begin to stoop to your level of fantasy so I can’t comment.

a reply to: rigel4

"Normal Feedoms"!?


What exactly are "normal" freedoms?

And by extension; which freedoms do you think are not normal?

a reply to: rigel4

I had to look up "Feedoms" because I didn't know how they could be threatened if I didn't know what they were.

So it seems to be people growing their own food in community gardens.

I don't know how normal people's minds work, but I'm a bit of an air head, easily reminded of other things in my past. So I remembered a short story that I had read in Jr. High about a rural kid who moved to a city. After plugging key words into Google, I found it: Antaeus by Borden Deal

Then I thought of Haitians moving to Springfield Ohio because of situation similar to that of T.J.'s folks in the Antaeus story.

I can't think of where Trump has mentioned urban gardens at all, but he does seem to say many negative things about workers moving in to where they are needed.

Maybe there is a place in Harris' Opportunity Economy for urban gardens.

It’s a spiritual war that’s already been won..which is why there is a second death. Really wake up

youtube.com...

Completely illogical arguments. I'll just take the first three.

1. This what North Korea and China do - they jail people for questioning the Government. From financial statements to politics, a system which allows people to question the integrity without fear, actually makes that system stronger not weaker.

2. But Trump did transfer power. Yes, there were riots during 2020 but the left was much more violent. Kamala is the one who said the riots should continue until after the election.

3. Are you kidding me? Saying you don't like what the press said is very different from wanting to fine or jail people. You think just politely putting people in jail or forcing their removal from social media sites is less of a threat?

a reply to: Dapaga

I get that Dap. That is why when he first hit the debates I liked what he had to say. Believe it or not. However, it only took me a debate or two to realize he was just a showman, a fraud. My constant posting against him reflects my inability to understand how so many can either not understand this or do and are willing to turn the country over to him

a reply to: rigel4

1. Undermining Trust in Democratic Institutions

If our Democratic Institutions were trustworthy, there would be no way to undermine that trust. Of course, we know they are not entirely trustworthy. Our government likes to spy on every aspect of our lives imaginable, but they cloak their actions under broad euphemisms like National Security and non-disclosure agreements. They make it legal to lie to us, but illegal to lie to them. The lack of trust in our "Democratic Institutions" is well deserved. They've earned that lack of trust long before Trump entered the political scene, and we'll still have it long after he's gone. You can't blame Trump for the lack of trust in our government, all he did was say out loud what many of us already knew.

2. Encouragement of Authoritarianism

Trump is not a career politician. He's a CEO. He has made his fortune by issuing directives to try to benefit his companies, and insuring that those directives are followed. His success or failure depended on his judgement. Contrast that with someone like Biden or Obama. They made their fortunes through backroom deals, selling influence, kowtowing to lobbyists and special interests, and insider trading. All the while pandering to their constituents to stay in "public service."

As for praising potential adversaries, that's just common sense. It's hard to negotiate mutually beneficial arrangements with someone after you tell the world that they are the scum of the Earth. North Korea is a good example. During Trump's presidency, the war mongers and media were telling us that NK was just days or weeks away from nuking Hawaii. A little public buttering up of Kim Jong-un, a little direct communication, and Trump diffused the whole situation. Much to the chagrin of the war mongers and the press.

3. Attacks on the Press

Trump didn't attack the press. He exposed them for what they are. Yes, a free press is essential to a free society, but we don't have that, do we? We have propaganda outlets. You can pick your flavor, but they are still feeding you the same swill.

Enemy of the People? Well, people who lie to you are not your friends. Fake news? Yeah, they are. Real journalists that expose government crimes are fired, maligned, and prosecuted. Real whistleblowers are imprisoned. Again, all we can blame Trump for is saying out loud what many of us already knew.

4. Subversion of Rule of Law

I don't believe Trump is as guilty of this more than any other President. Certainly to a lesser degree than any President since Regan or Carter. Of course, it's a pretty low bar when you're talking about the Bushes, Clinton, Obama, and Biden. But you can't say that Trump personally profited from it. Trump lost a lot of money due to his Presidency. A corrupt justice system and a biased media saw to that.

5. Incitement of Political Violence

Just straight up bull, there. I have never seen or heard Donald Trump say or do anything that incited me to political violence. If someone did commit a violent act it was because they chose to do so. The responsibility is theirs. I can only guess that if someone commits and act of violence because of what someone else said, then that person is probably weak minded and prone to violence anyway.

Unless, of course, you're talking about the military. Committing acts of violence because of what someone said is pretty much their job.

6. Polarization and Division

That wasn't Trump's doing. He wasn't going on TV and calling people who didn't vote for him a basket of deplorables. He wasn't saying anyone who wants to make America great was racist. Nobody saw Trump as a polarizing figure until he dared to beat the ordained Clinton. Before that he was just a billionaire, and everybody was happy to get a piece of him. When he was campaigning, he was just a rich eccentric buffoon, not to be taken seriously. After he beat Clinton, he was literally Hitler.

You can thank our "news" outlets for the polarization and division. Give credit where it is due. They've worked very hard and sacrificed nearly all their credibility to create and maintain this division.

7. Disregard for Norms and Traditions

While not all political norms are legally binding, they are essential for the smooth functioning of democracy. Trump's frequent disregard for norms—such as refusing to release his tax returns, challenging the independence of federal agencies, and pressuring state officials to overturn election results—alarmed many who see these as critical safeguards for democracy.

You think our current "democracy" is functioning smoothly?

Well, I suppose three areas where it is functioning smoothly are government overreach, graft, and corruption. We may have a threatened Shutdown every six months or so over the budget. But that doesn't hurt Congress's sex crime slush fund. We can't track millions of illegal immigrants coming into the country, but we can keep track of the ownership of hundreds of millions of guns in private hands. They can't do much about increasing poverty and homelessness in the US, but we can smoothly send tens of billions of dollars overseas.

This may be smoothly functioning, but it certainly isn't a democracy because I didn't vote for any of that. And if these "Norms" and "Traditions" facilitate this smoothly functioning government overreach, graft, and corruption, then I'm all for a little shake-up. Kick the stones and see what crawls out.

originally posted by: BingoMcGoof
a reply to: Dapaga

I get that Dap. That is why when he first hit the debates I liked what he had to say. Believe it or not. However, it only took me a debate or two to realize he was just a showman, a fraud. My constant posting against him reflects my inability to understand how so many can either not understand this or do and are willing to turn the country over to him

in that same light, it baffles me why those who oppose him so vehemently, don't seem to remember he was in the office for 4 years already, did a good job, and when it came time for him to leave, or barricade himself in the oval office bathroom, he left. He had no new wars, and was in the edge of bringing peace to a section of the middle east. Those of us who don't like war, like that.

originally posted by: rigel4
"Trump has repeatedly cast doubt on the legitimacy of democratic institutions like the electoral system, the judiciary, and the media. One notable example is his baseless claims of widespread"

Ironic thread title while you're getting content warnings from the tech arm of the censorship industrial complex.



"Are they trusted on this topic?"

Lol

This threat to your normal feedoms, is it in the thread with us right now?

The things KH is calling for and promising to do are far more authoritarian than anything Trump has proposed.

Democrats and republicans play nice with other western leaders because there's money and power involved to enrich themselves with. The corruption of the WHO, UN, NATO, EU and all the other interrnational organizations have been exposed repeatedly, yet they get full support and protection from western world leaders.

Trump is a threat to the status quo of corruption that enriches a few at the top as they push every day citizens ever deeper into poverty.

If we're going to vote on a personality contest-which it looks like we are- we have only two choices. One who is as phoney as a three dollar bill that comes off as lower than average IQ or one who is an open book that sugarcoats nothing. Both have offensive personalities; one has a record of sucessfully getting things done, the other not so much.

a reply to: nugget1

I'll be blunt with you here nug. As you have mentioned before, we do see things in a very similar fashion while disagreeing on many particulars. As I see it, the task that Harris proposes is to keep the current trajectory of the world power structure in tact and moving right along, all progressing to that promised bright future we have all been fed now for ages. To that I say hogwash. I think we agree here.

However, the task that Trump has promised to fulfill is to route the buggers and re-direct the entire course of human empire and establish a purer, non-corrupt environment for free thinking individuals to thrive and develop their own best selves. What a promise and again I agree. Sounds lovely. If it's promises I want to believe in, this one is much better than what Harris can offer.

But I don't buy promises. Harris's promise is going to be difficult to deliver on. The pressures of modern civilization are beyond our capacity to control them. Sooner or later this is all going to crumble. Trump's promise is much more idealistic than hers and at the same time not just difficult but as I understand the world IMPOSSIBLE. The whole idea of tearing it all down and replacing it is unimaginable to me, it just cannot be done. He claimed to know the best people but has proven over and over that he does not.

Again, I don't buy promises. I believe the bigger the promise the bigger the lie.

Glad you all posted - it baffles me that people can’t remember that he WAS President and did a good job. Then Covid came and derailed his accomplishments, and people blamed him for it. Yes, he trusted the wrong sources, but hindsight is 20/20.

This thread doesn’t really matter anymore. The guy got his feelers hurt and left. He probably hasn’t read anything posted, because he just doesn’t want to know the other side.

originally posted by: LollieK3
Glad you all posted - it baffles me that people can’t remember that he WAS President and did a good job. Then Covid came and derailed his accomplishments, and people blamed him for it. Yes, he trusted the wrong sources, but hindsight is 20/20.

This thread doesn’t really matter anymore. The guy got his feelers hurt and left. He probably hasn’t read anything posted, because he just doesn’t want to know the other side.

I am sure he's been back to read the posts.

He is waiting to hear from his superiors on how to respond to all the facts that have been dumped on his head.

They get confused when you use the truth and real facts to counter their nonsense.

a reply to: RazorV66

Or.....or, they've realized their lines of BS doesn't stand up to scrutiny so they now are in a holding pattern until the next absurd talking point emerges.

a reply to: BingoMcGoof

However, the task that Trump has promised to fulfill is to route the buggers and re-direct the entire course of human empire and establish a purer, non-corrupt environment for free thinking individuals to thrive and develop their own best selves. What a promise and again I agree. Sounds lovely. If it's promises I want to believe in, this one is much better than what Harris can offer.

I don't disagree, I just see it in a different light.

Trump can't change the generations of corrupt status quo; he can just offer some temporary relief and maybe clean up and/or eliminate some of the government bloat and money wasting branches. Who knows; maybe he'd even start a new movement in DC where other politicians join in with clearing out the systemic corruption?

On the other hand, Harris and Walz both are loose cananons who advocate for authoritarian strong arm tactics.

I have watched the country devole (IMHO) since I was 16 and struck with how very similar the path our country was walking was doing exactly what Hitler did, only in slow motion.

Taking over MSM has been great for conving people they want ever increasing government oversight and I honestly believe this will be our last free election and the end to America and what little freedoms are left if the Democrats remain in power. IF H & K (there's a pun in there...lol) are elected then will never, ever be another election by the people.

We can have four more years for a chance at a little properity, food on the table and just maybe a shift from government control of the people to people once again being in control of their governors.

Our leaders, and all western leaders seem to be on the same page; socialism for all. We're not that far away and anybody who thinks America can't and won't be disarmed is fooling themselves.
It won't happen overnight; the government has been taking baby steps for many decades and the reprogramming of our youth tells me we're closer than ever to the final blow.

I don't understand how anybody can look back on the entire political history of America for the last 100 years and not see the path we're on. Hell, just look at RINO bush' Patriot Act and how ultimate total control has been progressing at warp speed ever since.

I don't think Trump is; at least not to America (I think he'd try and hand half Ukraine to Putin and doesn't quite grasp what the obvious outfall of such a deal would be going off his foreign affairs record, in paticular the one sided Taliban deal that handed them power and gave them the green light to attack Afghan government and army and abandoning allies when evacuating Syria causing 1000s of ISIS to be released and Turkey to commit mass war crimes against Kurds as everyone had warned would happen.

Vance on the other hand seems mental and hellbent on forcing hyper-authoritarian Evangelicalism if he gained power and openly admits to making up false stories to try and get his own way instead of going off the merits of the policy. Trump and Kamala seem statesmanlike and worthy of the Office compared to him.

originally posted by: nugget1
a reply to: BingoMcGoof

However, the task that Trump has promised to fulfill is to route the buggers and re-direct the entire course of human empire and establish a purer, non-corrupt environment for free thinking individuals to thrive and develop their own best selves. What a promise and again I agree. Sounds lovely. If it's promises I want to believe in, this one is much better than what Harris can offer.

I don't disagree, I just see it in a different light.

Trump can't change the generations of corrupt status quo; he can just offer some temporary relief and maybe clean up and/or eliminate some of the government bloat and money wasting branches. Who knows; maybe he'd even start a new movement in DC where other politicians join in with clearing out the systemic corruption?

On the other hand, Harris and Walz both are loose cananons who advocate for authoritarian strong arm tactics.

I have watched the country devole (IMHO) since I was 16 and struck with how very similar the path our country was walking was doing exactly what Hitler did, only in slow motion.

Taking over MSM has been great for conving people they want ever increasing government oversight and I honestly believe this will be our last free election and the end to America and what little freedoms are left if the Democrats remain in power. IF H & K (there's a pun in there...lol) are elected then will never, ever be another election by the people.

We can have four more years for a chance at a little properity, food on the table and just maybe a shift from government control of the people to people once again being in control of their governors.

Our leaders, and all western leaders seem to be on the same page; socialism for all. We're not that far away and anybody who thinks America can't and won't be disarmed is fooling themselves.
It won't happen overnight; the government has been taking baby steps for many decades and the reprogramming of our youth tells me we're closer than ever to the final blow.

I don't understand how anybody can look back on the entire political history of America for the last 100 years and not see the path we're on. Hell, just look at RINO bush' Patriot Act and how ultimate total control has been progressing at warp speed ever since.

Where to start, where to start. The Patriot Act. Nug. I watched those towers get hit. I went to work and everyone wanted to ask me about who did I think had done it because they knew that I was politically oriented. My reply to everyone was it did not matter who did it. It did not matter because what was really important was WHO WAS GOING TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT. And we found out, so I agree with you, it was a moment, a few weeks and the bear trap jaws ratcheted up several
notches.

I have watched the country devole (IMHO) since I was 16 and struck with how very similar the path our country was walking was doing exactly what Hitler did, only in slow motion.

For me, I was about 20, that was in 70. The course we were on as a free society was on a collision course with authoritarianism. In that time I recognized the control the government was exerting. My question though was how was government being controlled. I focused on where those in government were getting money and that pointed straight to rich people and more, rich people from corporate America. ''Pork Barrel'' . I found it in my city and state, I found it all over the place. MrX wants to own a pro sports team in town, gives money to enough councilmen who vote to allow it and start a bond issue to pay for the building of a stadium at tax payer expense then turn it over to the team owner and he makes bank. Government is their tool, not ours. Focusing on the tool, the feather or the hammer means little to me, it's who is yielding it that matters.

a reply to: BingoMcGoof

Focusing on the tool, the feather or the hammer means little to me, it's who is yielding it that matters.

And that is why I'm willing to roll the dice and go for broke. H&K are a known that will continue us on the same path only in hyper speed. Not sure why things are ramping up, but there are; like a deadline must be met and total control implemented.

I'm not feeling super lucky, but I have zero hope in H&K leading us to a more prosperous future. I've watched too many of their past speeches and researched their records, which are totally oposite of what they pretend to support know.

This was an eye-opener for me:

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: nugget1

I'm not feeling super lucky, but I have zero hope in H&K leading us to a more prosperous future.

Nor do I. Well, make that little hope. Zero for Trump. So, can we still be friends?

originally posted by: BingoMcGoof
a reply to: nugget1

I'm not feeling super lucky, but I have zero hope in H&K leading us to a more prosperous future.

Nor do I. Well, make that little hope. Zero for Trump. So, can we still be friends?

Of course! Fifty years from now it won't matter to either of us!

No matter who wins we can be there to help each other through the fallout.