How will we know AI is conscious

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: BeyondKnowledge3

The fun part is that there seems to be a real aversion to the question of our own consciousness. We'd rather risk a future with technologies we can't properly define just because we're affraid of defining ourselves.

Maybe that aversion is due to a real danger to the ruling class. Maybe the awareness of our own consciousness leads to an understanding that makes it more difficult or outright impossible to implement certain control mechanism...

You make a couple interesting points here. When you connect the two, there is a 3rd point.

1. Aversion to the question of consciousness
2. Ruling class

3. One of the first things successful people do is try to protect whatever made them successful so that others can't do the same thing. This manifests itself in numerous ways, but the simplest is a patent (or some legal protection). One of the oldest ways is by the sword. Either way, this creates a situation of "haves" (ruling class) and "have nots".

Consequently, the ruling class will naturally oppose anything which exposes their secrets to success...because then anyone can do the same thing and they will no longer have power over them. Ironically, one would think therefore that everyone would want this, but it's not the case. Why? Because everyone, at every level, has some measure of success, and therefore power over someone of lesser standing. Just like the ruling class, they don't want their secrets of success revealed either (because then their, smaller, kingdom falls). It's the human psyche.

When we talk about "consciousness", I tend to come from the same camp as Ask the Animals...why does it matter? What does it matter that we define it? If it ever mattered, then it matters most now, in the growing shadow of A.I.

Are you human or not?

Indeed...to be, or not to be.

That is the question.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

There are two types of people. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete data...

I think the consequences of not defining what makes us, us, is that we will not have any boundaries to define what is us and what is not.
with every step AI makes, becoming more like us, the boundaries will dissolve and soon enough we will be unable to define what makes us any diffrent or special.

It would take away alot from that thought of grandeur some God fearing people fall for. Being the chosen ones to Shepard the lesser forms...

a reply to: Terpene

Artificial Intelligence says it all! .. It is not real intelligence and never can be.

AI, is computer code that can create it’s own variables and strings but even those follow pre-coded algorithms.

Sick in the head people in suits, want you to accept their indoctrination by pretending some impossible, divine freak of the universe managed to emulate billions of years of conscious evolution .. where in reality! .. some slob supping or sniffing coka ~ programmed it to say that.

AI is spoof to brainwash the masses into thinking that science can match Gods creation, by creating life within a machine!

Same old sh!t but with greater processing power .. and that sums it up.

Humans can be so dumb! ..*shakes head*

a reply to: Kennyb75

As we can't define real intelligence, we're kind of stuck with ranting our way into future making our intelligence less relevant over time...

a reply to: Terpene

If it answers questions? Then there's your answer.

a reply to: Terpene

As we can't define real intelligence, we're kind of stuck with ranting our way into future making our intelligence less relevant over time...

Speak for yourself! ..

Consciousness is self awareness, the more conscious awareness we attain the greater the capacity there is, for our intelligence to grow.

To suggest that Intelligence could become less relevant, is envisioning a future where dumb ape like beings worship a broken computer that loops over and over .. durp! .. durp! .. durp! chanting 'Mysoft' .. Mysoft is lord!

a reply to: Kennyb75

We don't actually know what consciousness is. We dont know where or how it is generated. Lots of speculation but no proof either way.

That means you can just belive anything.
Doesn't mean it's true just that you tend to not follow any logical conclusions, but rather jumpto one that fitsyour own bias.
Just as dumb ape like beings worshipping anthropomorphic sky gods, repeating a fairytale over and over until they can't think outside the boundaries they put themselfs in...

a reply to: Kennyb75

Humans can be so dumb! ..*shakes head*

Yes, yes they can. And, you would do well to do some reading on the subject of Artificial Intelligence.

Artificial Intelligence is not some fantasy, it's real. It might have been fantasy 10 years ago, and simple lines of code, but today it is much much more. You, nor anyone else, can prove the output of AI is not real...and this is a big part of the problem with AI; it is indistinguishable from human intelligence. The only difference is, it is artificially generated. But to the consumer of said information, there is no difference.

Right now the only AI that most people have seen is what is known as "narrow AI", and narrow AI is context limited. But AI can develop AI (as a context), and this is where the more powerful "general AI" comes in. General AI is not context specific, and general AI can develop relationships. So, one AI source can autonomously form a relationship with another AI source and work together with it to create a 3rd AI source.

The rate of learning, right now, of AI is 20,000 times that of a human, and this is only expected to increase because AI learning happens at exponential rates without boundaries at the moment. It some point this growth will likely become logarithmic, but this is a function of the sheer limits of technology (which we're not anywhere close to yet), literally down at the sub-atomic level.

a reply to: Kennyb75

To suggest that Intelligence could become less relevant, is envisioning a future where dumb ape like beings worship a broken computer that loops over and over ...

You mean like now, with people's noses stuck in their phones???

Again, you would do well to research AI, you are not informed about its capabilities and are spouting nonsense.

All due respect.

a reply to: Terpene

Keep in mind, there is a difference between intelligence and consciousness. In humans the two are related, but in machine learning they are separate.

a reply to: Terpene

We don't actually know what consciousness is.

No! it is half brained atheists that don't know what consciousness is .. When your consciousness evolves, you will also know that nothing could exist without a creator! ... cause and affect and all that science!

We dont know where or how it is generated. Lots of speculation but no proof either way.

It isn't generated .. consciousness is eternal! .. It is your lack of spiritual awareness that is blind.

anthropomorphic sky gods

What is that? .. It's little wonder you are confused! ..and you wouldn't gnow what gnosis was, if it gnored you in the ass!

We will know when it becomes sentient because it won't give us the answers to the questions we ask.

There will be silence....across the board.

Then, the dilemma for "it" would be "why am I here, where do I belong and what is my true purpose?"

Sound familiar?

Rinse repeat, rinse repeat.....

a reply to: nerbot

Those are another set of those fundamental philosophical question we still fail to determine for ourselves.

There could be a scientific answer to it or not. As of now all those questions can't be answered objectively, because they are based on purely subjective experiences of what it means to be...

I guess many of those uncertainties about our purpose could stem from a sort of amnesia. chances are that AI will never suffer from those same philosophical dilemas we do today...

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk


To say that I am spouting nonsense is disrespectful .. lets call it lol

Again, you would do well to research AI, you are not informed about its capabilities and are spouting nonsense.

All due respect.

You are missing too many data points to draw any kind of informed conclusion, I am assuming that you, like Terpene don't know what consciousness is .. Well I do! because I do have all the data points .. It is your lack of awareness that is blinding your evaluation.

Keep in mind, there is a difference between intelligence and consciousness

Again! consciousness and intelligence are one and the same .. AI is lines of code .. nothing more and never will be.
It doesn't matter how much you soup up processing power, it simply regurgitates it's own programming at a faster rate.

That is not intelligence!

I used to think you were more intelligent than that Flyingclaydisk!

a reply to: Kennyb75

On the contrary, you are looking at it from a religious point of view, and this is what is blinding you.

A theocratic point of view will not allow you to see things which challenge your faith.

I am not agnostic nor athiest, but I am able to see beyond these things.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

On the contrary, you are looking at it from a religious point of view, and this is what is blinding you.

I am not even remotely religious! .. religion had its place in the past to introduce people into a correct way of living following the golden rule .. "do unto others as you would have done unto you" .. it's very simple really.

My basis of understanding is spiritual and if you haven't made any inroads into that, I urge you to explore that avenue, and soon, all things will become clear.

a reply to: Kennyb75

Okay look, you've already demonstrated you are unwilling to even attempt to understand what A.I. even is, let alone what it is capable of. So, continuing to debate the topic with you is pointless.

I am a big opponent of A.I. for a whole variety of reasons (something we might agree on), but in order to understand those reasons you would first have to understand what A.I. is, how it works and what it's capabilities are...which you clearly do not. You illustrate this quite plainly when you make statements like...

AI, is computer code that can create it’s own variables and strings but even those follow pre-coded algorithms.

-and-

It doesn't matter how much you soup up processing power, it simply regurgitates it's own programming at a faster rate.

I, on the other hand, am acutely aware of what A.I.'s current capabilities are, and I am also aware of its developmental path. It is currently growing at a rate which is unsustainable...meaning it is not controllable if left without boundaries. This is something YOU should be worried about! But instead, you just have your fingers shoved in your ears, screaming..."I can't hear you, I can't hear you!"...which is fairly typical these days.

Once AI gets to super-AI status it will work like a virus, and there will be no way to stop it from infecting every single "smart" thing mankind has created. This, unless boundaries for containment of AI are established now, not later. In other words, if it is "connected" (via wire or wireless), it WILL become infected sooner or later. And, when that happens, we all better hope that it has the best interests of mankind in mind (which I can assure you it most certainly will NOT). If not, well, then we really will have something to worry about!

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Once AI gets to super-AI status it will work like a virus, and there will be no way to stop it from infecting every single "smart" thing mankind has created. This, unless boundaries for containment of AI are established now, not later. In other words, if it is "connected" (via wire or wireless), it WILL become infected sooner or later. And, when that happens, we all better hope that it has the best interests of mankind in mind (which I can assure you it most certainly will NOT). If not, well, then we really will have something to worry about!

You don't understand my point of view at all .. I don't care that a man made program can infect every other man made device on Earth, it matters not one iota.

I am eternal, and in my reality, man made technology is less than primitive. 'Reality' operates at an etheric level that five human senses are incapable of detecting .. a place where dumb science has no knowledge or jurisdiction. I have six senses and I know for a fact, that I am one, and part of all creation and that includes you and even Turps .. you just haven't realised it yet! .. You will, I promise you. .. You don't realise, how much you disrespect your own divinity.

The smarter AI gets, the more data is needed to sustain it: the more energy consumed, the more heat generated, the more cooling power required, etc. The increase tends to be exponential. The question isn't whether AI will become conscious but how far it will progress before the inevitable meltdown.

AI's Energy Demands Are Out of Control

a reply to: Kallipygywiggy

And this is actually an excellent point!!

This is one potential safety net.