Russian Cross: the very beginning of the "Ukrainian conflict"

a reply to: CriticalStinker

So name the number, please. And try to justify it without propaganda and fakes, but on the basis of historical archival documents. Everything else is just hot air.

originally posted by: Echo007
The US installed a puppet leader in Ukraine to do whatever the US wanted it to do.

Irrelevant.

The Ukraine is a sovereign nation. It was recognized as such by the international community and even by the Russian leadership as has already been shown by OLDCARPY. Ukraine was not provoking Russia with anything. Russia invaded to expand it's own territory and in doing so killed 500,000 innocent Ukrainians.

a reply to: berbofthegreen
The Poles, as Churchill called them "the hyenas of Europe", are Slavs - Catholics. And like any renegades they try to become holier than the Pope))) Hence their behavior. For their pride, their country has been repeatedly divided between neighboring states, which do not have an inferiority complex because of their self-sufficiency. But the Poles always intrigue and dream of an empire "from sea to sea" - from the Baltic to the Black Sea. And they always lose.

originally posted by: RussianTroll
The poor "Ukrainians" were killed and are being killed by the West,

1 - They are Ukrainians. There is no need to put quotes around it. That is indeed who they are.

2 - No they are not being killed by the West. They are being killed by RUSSIA, which invaded it when unprovoked. YOUR country has killed 500,000 innocent Ukrainians. No one else did that.

an illegitimate dictatorial regime in the person of people of Jewish nationality, .

1 - The leadership of the Ukraine is not 'illegitimate'.

2 - The religion of that leader is IRRELEVANT. He is Ukrainian and he's the legitimate leader. Your continued obsession with Jews is NAZI and disgusting.

a reply to: FlyersFan

How would you feel if the Russians divided the Jews into Sephardim and Ashkenazim, armed one of the sides and set them to war against each other, declaring that one of the sides is not Jewish?

originally posted by: RussianTroll
How would you feel if the Russians divided the Jews...

Irrelevant.

Ukrainians are not Russians. They are Ukrainians. They are a sovereign nation. This is not a civil war. This is an invasion by Russia into a sovereign nation and Russia has slaughtered 500,000 innocent Ukrainians. And it has NOTHING to do with an incident from 110 years ago. Russia already accepted that Ukraine is a sovereign nation, as OLDCARPY showed with his post. The entire world accepted Ukraine as a sovereign nation. THE END.

Your country invaded a sovereign nation.
Your country slaughtered 500,000 innocent people in that nation.
That's the bottom line.
You try to make excuses for it ... but they all fail.

a reply to: RussianTroll

This process does not depend on current politics.

Exactly!! I'll refer you to the post I made back towards the top of Page 2.

Kievan Rus (862-1242) was a medieval political federation located in modern-day Belarus, Ukraine, and part of Russia

So Russians are actually Ukrainians!!

a reply to: RussianTroll

"The poor "Ukrainians" were killed and are being killed by the West, first by seizing power in the country, establishing an illegitimate dictatorial regime in the person of people of Jewish nationality, arming them and setting them against their brothers and relatives. Sooner or later you will have to answer for this".

Ukrainians are being killed by the West?

No, Russia is doing all the killing, silly.

What is "Jewish nationality"? 😲

And apart from your extreme anti semitism, what has this got to do with your War and it's origins?

a reply to: RussianTroll

And try to justify it without propaganda and fakes, but on the basis of historical archival documents. Everything else is just hot air.

Here, I'll just pass you this....

a reply to: FlyersFan
You know, to be honest, the opinion of others about the Russian nation for Russians tends to zero. But if you want to use force, then be prepared to use force in return.

a reply to: RussianTroll

That was word salad. I have no idea what you were saying. None.

The facts -

Ukrainians are not Russians. They are Ukrainians. They are a sovereign nation. This is not a civil war. This is an invasion by Russia into a sovereign nation and Russia has slaughtered 500,000 innocent Ukrainians. And it has NOTHING to do with an incident from 110 years ago. Russia already accepted that Ukraine is a sovereign nation, as OLDCARPY showed with his post. The entire world accepted Ukraine as a sovereign nation. THE END.

Your country invaded a sovereign nation.
Your country slaughtered 500,000 innocent people in that nation.
That's the bottom line.
You try to make excuses for it ... but they all fail.

originally posted by: RussianTroll

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: RussianTroll
a reply to: network dude

I have given you the origins of "Ukrainianism". How, by whom and by what methods was this "nation" created. Do you justify these methods?

When the USSR collapsed, many smaller nations were born, or reborn. So you think there should be a rearward system for failure?

Nations are not born in the process of state collapse. You have absolutely no idea how nations and ethnic groups are born. This process does not depend on current politics.

So the USSR is still a thing? I was sure I read it had collapsed and Ukraine turned back into it's own country.

wait, ask google.

Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan.

Yep, all those countries went on to be their own nations. Or again, did that not happen? (I'm relying on history books for this, I don't live there)

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
I wonder on which page the threats of nuclear annihilation will happen?

Looks like page 3

a reply to: network dude

Phew....not us Brits. Yet?

a reply to: RussianTroll

Same with your opinions about us Brits, mate.

But history is what it is. History.

I'd like to try to understand how the events of 110 years ago might have anything to do with your current War.

Can you please explain?

We have Ukraine and 2 countries trying to show them their path to the future.

One country invaded them and killed hundreds of thousands of thier citizens and pines eloquently for Ukraine to overlook the current war and embrace their dubious and abusive historical connections

While another country with Ukraine's like-minded neighbors said you need to reject this historically abusive relationship now and we all will help you find a better path. You are our neighbors we believe in your right to self-determination of your path forward

A path where you aren't limited to what the big 19th-century gas station wants you to do but you can decide and govern yourself without the yoke of oppressive communism profiting off your citizens and resources.

Ukraine made a brave choice, it's amazing they have held out this long, and it's proved how stagnant and archaic Russia's leadership has become. Militarily their only effective strategy is to employ WWII-era methods to bludgeon their opponent by throwing Russian citizens into an endless meat grinder.

It is a shame the Russian people deserve much better.

All the while it re-energized NATO and NATO's and America's MIC, now they are hyper-diligent, in preparing for conflict with Russia, rightfully so.

Russia could have insisted on a negotiated solution and maintained the illusion that they are still a superpower.

Now all they have is thier past glories.

a reply to: putnam6

I disagree. It's WW1 era methods...

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: putnam6

I disagree. It's WW1 era methods...

I was referring to the meatgrinder aspects, WWII Russian casualties well surpass WWI Russian casualties. The human cost vs acre territory held has to be even higher.

Russia's losses in Ukraine as of September 12: 630,200 troops, 18,009 artillery systems and 15,033 drones

Not to mention while the current battlefield is somewhat static and has a trench warfare aspect today, the extensive use of rockets, missiles and artillery like the Katyusha the current Russo-Ukrainian war has an air weapon aspect absent in WWI. Battlefield tactics Russia used specifically during Operation Barbarossa

en.wikipedia.org...

Operationally, German forces achieved significant victories and occupied some of the most important economic areas of the Soviet Union (mainly in Ukraine) and inflicted, as well as sustained, heavy casualties. German high command anticipated a quick collapse of Soviet resistance as in the invasion of Poland, analogous to the reaction Russia had during World War I,[38] but instead the Red Army absorbed the German Wehrmacht's strongest blows and bogged it down in a war of attrition for which the Germans were unprepared.

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: putnam6

I disagree. It's WW1 era methods...

I was referring to the meatgrinder aspects, WWII Russian casualties well surpass WWI Russian casualties. The human cost vs acre territory held has to be even higher.

Russia's losses in Ukraine as of September 12: 630,200 troops, 18,009 artillery systems and 15,033 drones

Not to mention while the current battlefield is somewhat static and has a trench warfare aspect today, the extensive use of rockets, missiles and artillery like the Katyusha the current Russo-Ukrainian war has an air weapon aspect absent in WWI. Battlefield tactics Russia used specifically during Operation Barbarossa

en.wikipedia.org...

Operationally, German forces achieved significant victories and occupied some of the most important economic areas of the Soviet Union (mainly in Ukraine) and inflicted, as well as sustained, heavy casualties. German high command anticipated a quick collapse of Soviet resistance as in the invasion of Poland, analogous to the reaction Russia had during World War I,[38] but instead the Red Army absorbed the German Wehrmacht's strongest blows and bogged it down in a war of attrition for which the Germans were unprepared.

Fair enough.