Russian Cross: the very beginning of the "Ukrainian conflict"

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Please state the figure.

a reply to: network dude

If someone has a massive chip on their shoulder and is full of hatred for other folks and wants them dead, there are no rules.

a reply to: network dude

I have given you the origins of "Ukrainianism". How, by whom and by what methods was this "nation" created. Do you justify these methods?

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
I suppose we’d have to take into account the number of Ukrainians who died under the USSR as well..

500,000 innocent Ukrainians have been slaughtered in their own country by Russia since February 2022.

Completely unprovoked attack by Russia upon a sovereign nation.

We can start with that.

originally posted by: RussianTroll
a reply to: network dude

I have given you the origins of "Ukrainianism". How, by whom and by what methods was this "nation" created. Do you justify these methods?

When the USSR collapsed, many smaller nations were born, or reborn. So you think there should be a rearward system for failure?

originally posted by: RussianTroll
I have given you the origins of "Ukrainianism".

There is no 'ukrainianism'.
No 'ISM' on the name of the sovereign nation of Ukraine.
What may or may not have happened 110 years ago is IRRELEVANT.
They are an independent sovereign nation and are recognized as
such by the international community.

Russia invaded a sovereign independent nation.
Russia butchered 500,000 innocent people in that nation.
And in the name of nationalism you support it.
That's really disgusting.

a reply to: RussianTroll

I already gave you this, but to answer your question:

www.britannica.com...

"The result of Stalin’s campaign was a catastrophe. In spring 1933 death rates in Ukraine spiked. Between 1931 and 1934 at least 5 million people perished of hunger all across the U.S.S.R. Among them, according to a study conducted by a team of Ukrainian demographers, were at least 3.9 million Ukrainians".

Quite a few Russians, too.

originally posted by: RussianTroll
a reply to: CriticalStinker

Please state the figure.

Eh, we both know we’re not going to agree on the figure. And let’s be honest, there wouldn’t be one that would satisfy anyone if it came to splitting hairs considering they were estimates done close to a hundred years ago.

But just the Holodomor has estimates in the millions for a 2 year period at the begging of the USSR.

We can argue what level of malice, or incompetence led to that, but at the end of the day it happened, and people don’t forget things like that.

Why on earth would Ukraine want to be subject to the same country who helped perpetuate that?

It’s madness.

It is odd to me that Americans (I am one) cannot stand for a second to hear a historical account from someone or something they think they oppose.
To me that is why America sucks now. Even though I personally dislike Putin, I know that it always takes two to tango. It seems to me that if you are in the west, your side is always the good side. Well hey adult people reading this; there is ALWAYS nuiance. There is always someone making a lie to protect their version of things. Have you not lived life to recognize this somehow? Instead of scoffing, read and see if it helps your idea of what the situation is. It will do you good.

Question for RussianTroll:
I know that Poles are sort of really behind that as they are eternally (and rightfully) butthurt by the loss of their empire which included most of the western Ukraine. Do you think that Polish folk are sort of fanning this fire in some odd way due to historical "agency"?

originally posted by: RussianTroll
a reply to: network dude

I have given you the origins of "Ukrainianism". How, by whom and by what methods was this "nation" created. Do you justify these methods?

I think you're looking in the wrong place RT, it was Kiev that created Russia not the other way around....
www.worldhistory.org...

Kievan Rus (862-1242) was a medieval political federation located in modern-day Belarus, Ukraine, and part of Russia (

a reply to: RussianTroll

en.m.wikipedia.org...

"From 2 December 1991 onwards, Ukraine was globally recognized by other countries as an independent state.[5][6][7] Also on 2 December, the President of the Russian SFSR Boris Yeltsin recognized Ukraine as independent.[8][9][10][11] In a telegram of congratulations Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev sent to Kravchuk soon after the referendum, Gorbachev included his hopes for close Ukrainian cooperation and understanding in "the formation of a union of sovereign states".[12]"

Surely, you know this?

a reply to: berbofthegreen

Perhaps you might like to read about the Holodomor?

originally posted by: berbofthegreen
It is odd to me that Americans (I am one) cannot stand for a second to hear a historical account from someone or something they think they oppose.

Accurate historical accounts are fine.

Propaganda being used to justify the slaughter of 500,000 innocent Ukrainians is not.

Claiming that an incident from 110 years ago is why the Russians invaded Ukraine in 2022 just doesn't fly.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: FlyersFan

Apparently it was all due to something that happened 110 years ago?

Exactly.
People are supposedly upset by actions that people did before they were born. No perpetrators or victims are still alive.

Using this logic, the native Americans in the United States are justified if they start bombing Chicago. 😂

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: RussianTroll
have absolutely no idea how the current conflict in Ukraine began.

Sure we do.

Ukraine was minding it's own business and wasn't provoking Russia at all.

Russia invaded the sovereign nation of Ukraine on February 24, 2022.

Russia butchered 500,000 Ukrainian citizens in their own country.

This invasion of the sovereign nation of Ukraine happened because Putin is an egomaniac and war monger.

And the Russians lap up the nationalist propaganda, buying into his mind numbing rhetoric, and they happily march off to Putins illegal war to die for him because their minds have been soaked in nationalistic lies. The Russian people can't think for themselves.

Yep ... we know exactly how it started and why it started and why it continues.

You failed to mention US promised Russia it wouldn't expend NATO east towards Russia border. The US installed a puppet leader in Ukraine to do whatever the US wanted it to do. US/NATO and Ukraine knew Russia wouldn't just sit by while the west placed US/NATO missiles in Ukraine. Russia will win the conflict in Ukraine. Only thing US/NATO doing is causing pointless deaths. All Russia wanted was to keep the current buffer zone free of US/NATO missile systems.

US is the war monger. Just look at how many military bases US has outside the US compared to Russia. I don't understand why US/NATO is so hell bend on placing offensive weapon systems in countries near Russia boarder. Russia doesn't have military bases or weapons system in Mexico, Canada or within 1,000 miles of lower 48 states.

US/NATO is playing with fire in Ukraine. If US/NATO goes ahead and gives Ukraine long range weapon system to strike targets in Russia. US/NATO better be ready for Russia and it's allies to armed enemies of US/NATO with similar weapons to strike US/NATO targets in Europe and middle east including Israel.

a reply to: Echo007

Probably had something to do with countries begging to enter NATO out of fear of Russia...🤣

a reply to: FlyersFan

The poor "Ukrainians" were killed and are being killed by the West, first by seizing power in the country, establishing an illegitimate dictatorial regime in the person of people of Jewish nationality, arming them and setting them against their brothers and relatives. Sooner or later you will have to answer for this.

a reply to: Bluntone22

And for Russia to use such declarations for justification exposes them to Finland and China doing the same for land Russia took.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: RussianTroll

en.m.wikipedia.org...

"From 2 December 1991 onwards, Ukraine was globally recognized by other countries as an independent state.[5][6][7] Also on 2 December, the President of the Russian SFSR Boris Yeltsin recognized Ukraine as independent.[8][9][10][11] In a telegram of congratulations Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev sent to Kravchuk soon after the referendum, Gorbachev included his hopes for close Ukrainian cooperation and understanding in "the formation of a union of sovereign states".[12]"

Quoting for the significance of it.

Both Yeltsin and Gorbachev recognized the Ukraine as a sovereign independent country and gave the country their best wishes. So obviously no incident from 110 years ago has anything to do with what Putin did in 2022. Nothing.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: RussianTroll
a reply to: network dude

I have given you the origins of "Ukrainianism". How, by whom and by what methods was this "nation" created. Do you justify these methods?

When the USSR collapsed, many smaller nations were born, or reborn. So you think there should be a rearward system for failure?

Nations are not born in the process of state collapse. You have absolutely no idea how nations and ethnic groups are born. This process does not depend on current politics.