why ukraine should not be innocent

What does Wuhan have anything to do with Ukraine?

a reply to: Xtrozero
Really?
Its obvious.

In fact, the similarities between the “Ukraine biolabs” story and the theory that SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19) emerged from the Wuhan Institute of Virology are remarkable.

When our government says they have biolabs to prevent the spread of biological weapons you can bet your ass they are making biological weapons, you know, to "learn" and "prevent" the use of them.

A Washington Post article from 2005 opens with this statement: “The United States and Ukraine agreed yesterday to work jointly to prevent the spread of biological weapons, signing a pact that clears the way for Ukraine’s government to receive U.S. aid to improve security at facilities where dangerous microbes are kept.” The two U.S. senators spearheading that initiative were Richard Lugar, a Republican from Indiana, and Barack Obama, then a Democratic senator from Illinois.

here is a nice analysis
Do you believe Anthony Fauci and Victoria Nulan? Do you think the biolabs in Ukraine are peaceful reaseach?
We don't have to continue this back and forth. You can believe what you want to believe.

originally posted by: fringeofthefringe
In fact, the similarities between the “Ukraine biolabs” story and the theory that SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19) emerged from the Wuhan Institute of Virology are remarkable.

No, it isn't remarkable. We have in China a virus leak and in Ukraine we have nothing but a made up story.

When our government says they have biolabs to prevent the spread of biological weapons you can bet your ass they are making biological weapons, you know, to "learn" and "prevent" the use of them.

That there is what we call an assumption, no actual facts are connected.

A Washington Post article from 2005 opens with this statement: “The United States and Ukraine agreed yesterday to work jointly to prevent the spread of biological weapons, signing a pact that clears the way for Ukraine’s government to receive U.S. aid to improve security at facilities where dangerous microbes are kept.” The two U.S. senators spearheading that initiative were Richard Lugar, a Republican from Indiana, and Barack Obama, then a Democratic senator from Illinois.

Let's continue the article...

One lab to receive funding is the I.I. Mechnikov Antiplague Scientific and Research Institute, in the Black Sea port city of Odessa. The institute was part of a Cold War network of “antiplague” stations that supplied highly lethal pathogens to Soviet bioweapons factories.

“This agreement will allow us to begin addressing the problems faced by the Odessa antiplague institute and places like it,” said Mark Helmke, a staff member for the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, which Lugar chairs. Under the pact, the United States will fund security upgrades at key Ukrainian biological institutes and support peaceful research by Ukrainian scientists to fight the spread of natural diseases, Helmke said. The amount of funding has not been determined.

The problem was not that we were looking for places for bioweapon research. As I said we do not need to do that as we have many places already under our full control with no risks from a place in China or a corrupt state like Ukraine.

The problem has been that when the USSR fell it put things like nukes and bioweapon labs in the hands of people with zero control or oversight. In both areas, the US worked with these countries to get control and security of these dangerous places/items. Others like yourself want to expand those points into "US bioweapon labs in Ukraine and China", pretty damn close to the two worse places to do that...lol

Do you believe Anthony Fauci and Victoria Nulan? Do you think the biolabs in Ukraine are peaceful research?
We don't have to continue this back and forth. You can believe what you want to believe.

They are now, thanks to us. You also seem to believe what you want to believe. You have a set narrative that cannot be changed. BTW Russia didn't find anything in these labs, and boy oh boy they would have loved to find something... That is your first hint your story is false. It's a story of some basic truths and facts but re-engineered into a false narrative.

It is said the best lie has some truths within.

No, it isn't remarkable. We have in China a virus leak and in Ukraine we have nothing but a made up story.

a reply to: Xtrozero
It was never proven to be a "leak". It could have been intentional, we do not know and will probably never know for certain. Those who prevented an investigation of the covid origins are now saying it could have/most likely was "leaked" from the lab. There is more to the story than an accidental leak, that is just another lie in my opinion.

That there is what we call an assumption, no actual facts are connected.

The assumption would be to believe what our government tells you is 100% true. My opinion is based on both observable evidence and patterns of lies, deceit and corruption.

Did you believe our government when they said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction? Or that invading Iraq and Afghanistan was the best course of action after 9/11? Did you believe wearing a mask and keeping 6ft away was based on science? You sound like you believe that the covid vaccine is safe and effective, did you get vaccinated?
How many boosters did you get before you realized you were being lied to? I choose not to believe the government when they say the biological weapons work being done in Ukraine is for peaceful purposes. Its not like my opinion is not plausible, I believe it, you can choose not to believe it but to dismiss it seems irrational.

originally posted by: fringeofthefringe
It was never proven to be a "leak". It could have been intentional, we do not know and will probably never know for certain. Those who prevented an investigation of the covid origins are now saying it could have/most likely was "leaked" from the lab. There is more to the story than an accidental leak, that is just another lie in my opinion.

Well at least we both agree it came from the lab...

Releasing it on purpose doesn't make sense for two reasons.
1. Why would they release it right there if it was on purpose? That is most likely the biggest reason it was a lab leak
2. It ended up being a weaker virus than first expected, so why release it in the first place? What would be the reason to release a weak virus on their own people?

If you could explain why releasing it right at the lab on purpose I may follow your logic on that.

Did you believe our government when they said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction? Or that invading Iraq and Afghanistan was the best course of action after 9/11?

Well, I was there in both places for 20+ years. I saw in Iraq where the chemical weapons were kept and those places were still hot. The weapons were moved out to Syria, so it was basically a half-lie. Yes, they had them, but they moved them, but Bush didn't care and still attacked on that premise.


I don't think we should have invaded either...

Did you believe wearing a mask and keeping 6ft away was based on science? You sound like you believe that the covid vaccine is safe and effective, did you get vaccinated?

I knew the mask didn't do crap, and the vaccine was great for high-risk only. Why are you going off in many directions here? Yes, Fauci is a POS, what is new? The whole pandemic was one big virtue-signaling event for the left.

How many boosters did you get before you realized you were being lied to?

Lied about what was here exactly. I'm 64 so I got the shot and one booster because I went to EU and was required by them to be current. My bout with COVID lasted 2 days, a good number of my workers who didn't get the vaccine were sick for 2 weeks and still had long COVID issues well after. Where the liberals F'ed up was to mandate the vaccine and so many people who had low risk to the virus ended up with extra risk to the vaccine.

The actual virus is no joke for many, but that didn't mean everyone needed the vaccine.

I choose not to believe the government when they say the biological weapons work being mious. done in Ukraine is for peaceful purposes. Its not like my opinion is not plausible, I believe it, you can choose not to believe it but to dismiss it seems irrational.

You believe in a lot of fringe things, are they all true?

Releasing it on purpose doesn't make sense for two reasons.
1. Why would they release it right there if it was on purpose? That is most likely the biggest reason it was a lab leak
2. It ended up being a weaker virus than first expected, so why release it in the first place? What would be the reason to release a weak virus on their own people?

If you could explain why releasing it right at the lab on purpose I may follow your logic on that.

a reply to: Xtrozero
Let us star here. Timing is everything...

the first U.S. case of the 2019 novel coronavirus, which causes a disease known as COVID-19, is confirmed in a man from Washington State on January 20, 2020. 

here is a piece to the puzzle

The United States and China signed an historic and enforceable agreement on a Phase One trade deal on January 15, 2020. The agreement requires structural reforms and other changes to China’s economic and trade regime.

here is another piece to the puzzle, notice the timing?

Just to repeat your question here...

It ended up being a weaker virus than first expected, so why release it in the first place? 

The covid was just part of the psyop. They sent out bogus projections of death rates to scare the public from statisticians out of the Univ. of Washington right after they put assisted living seniors together with a covid patient and they all got sick and 39 died which spiked the numbers, they later repeated this in other states notabley New York, Pennsylvania and Michigan. This led to the lockdowns, closing of a very robust economy, schools and ultimately opened the door to civil chaos and mail-in balloting. I could put a timeline together but you lived through it so you know its there.
Some more excerpts from first link...

the Seattle area became the epicenter of an early U.S. outbreak. 39 residents of Life Care Center, a nursing home in Kirkland, died from complications from the virus in one four-week span. In some cases, people who died from COVID-19 in January 2020, but didn’t know it at the time, had their death certificate amended to show they died from the virus.

As the virus quickly marched across the country, businesses, schools and social gatherings were largely shut down, while, by May, unemployment rates reached their highest levels since the Great Depression.

edit on 6-7-2024 by fringeofthefringe because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: fringeofthefringe
the Seattle area became the epicenter of an early U.S. outbreak. 39 residents of Life Care Center, a nursing home in Kirkland, died from complications from the virus in one four-week span. In some cases, people who died from COVID-19 in January 2020, but didn’t know it at the time, had their death certificate amended to show they died from the virus.
As the virus quickly marched across the country, businesses, schools and social gatherings were largely shut down, while, by May, unemployment rates reached their highest levels since the Great Depression.

It didn't start there. Think about how far advanced COVID was already in Washington state before it finally made its way to the nursing home. I was in Washington State for it all, and we were talking about how starting in Oct of 2019 people were coming down with a really bad flu/cold. It put people out for a week then they had coughs for months afterward, so who knows what that was, most likely COVID.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Me and Mrs C were working in Salisbury and to get in and out of the office had to push thru loads of Chinese tourist going to see the Cathedral.

We both got really bad flu and Mrs C has long COVID. Lost her sense of taste and smell, still has.

That was October 2019.

Thanks, Wuhan.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2

That was October 2019.

Thanks, Wuhan.

I think the Chinese ignored it for a good while and then kept it secret until it finally was out in the open with Chinese traveling all over the place.

Stay on topic people.

Back to how Ukraine is currently being utilized as a bullet sponge

with an ex 40 million population by NATO.

Buh buh “russah invadeds”

a reply to: Imhere

Russia did invade there is no two ways about it.

I mean if you are going to deny the reality of the situation..........

a reply to: Imhere

Buh...buh...they did invade. Hence why we are discussing this War.

a reply to: Imhere

The topic of this thread is not about a "bullet sponge".

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2

The topic of this thread is not about a "bullet sponge".

Speaking of bullet sponges, I read today that 1 in 250 Russian males (.4%) have been killed in Ukraine. If we put this in the US terms it would be 660,000 people dead.

What makes it worse is we would be talking only ages 18 to 50 and that means instead of 165 million total males in the US, it is only 70 million males within that age group. What this means is if you are in that age group 18 to 50 instead of .4% of total males it would be close to 1% of that age group population. Doing the same in Russia it also came out that 1% of 18 to 50 were killed in Ukraine. This doesn't take life-long wounded that could be 10 times the death rates.

Ukraine says corrupt officials stole $40 million meant to buy arms for the war with Russia

Security officials say that the current investigation dates back to August 2022, when officials signed a contract for artillery shells worth 1.5 billion hryvnias ($39.6 million) with arms firm Lviv Arsenal.

After receiving payment, company employees were supposed to transfer the funds to a business registered abroad, which would then deliver the ammunition to Ukraine.

However, the goods were never delivered and the money was instead sent to various accounts in Ukraine and the Balkans, investigators said.

apnews.com...

One of many scandals there. Being taken from western aid.

Amid Zelensky recently lowering the military conscription age from 27 to 25 in an effort to replenish its depleted ranks.

a reply to: Imhere

"One of many scandals there" but I somehow haven't noticed those other scandals being discussed, just this one a dozen times.

Since you repeat yourself all the time, I will repeat myself one more time too.

There's no evidence that it was the money from the Western aid. The perpetrators were caught and arrested and the money was regained. That Ukraine is corrupted that is the truth. But corruption has been a problem of all post Soviet republics. It's the heritage of communism. But this case also shows that Zelensky fights with corruption and that he doesn't tolerate it.

Amid Zelensky recently lowering the military conscription age from 27 to 25 in an effort to replenish its depleted ranks.

And? What's wrong with that? Do you think that 25-year-old males shouldn't serve in the army during the war or what? Sorry but I don't follow your peculiar line of thinking here.

a reply to: Imhere

As explained before; there is oversight on the aid provided to Ukraine.
Of course there is a certain amount of corruption and attempted fraud, I don't think anyone has denied that.
But it isn't just ignored and accepted as the norm as it is elsewhere in Eastern Europe - Russia being by far the most corruption riddled nation in the region - as is obviously evident by the very fact that the money has been retrieved and that the case has been widely reported.

Zelensky isn't perfect - who is? - and there's no doubt that corruption and fraud still occur in Ukraine....but Zelensky is trying to address it.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Imhere

As explained before; there is oversight on the aid provided to Ukraine.
Of course there is a certain amount of corruption and attempted fraud, I don't think anyone has denied that.
But it isn't just ignored and accepted as the norm as it is elsewhere in Eastern Europe - Russia being by far the most corruption riddled nation in the region - as is obviously evident by the very fact that the money has been retrieved and that the case has been widely reported.

Zelensky isn't perfect - who is? - and there's no doubt that corruption and fraud still occur in Ukraine....but Zelensky is trying to address it.

THere is a problem of Zelensky...he has the same name of Putin...coincidence?
I have a clue that people around them are managing this war because the real war should be around Moldavia/Hungary/Romania

a reply to: joy36k

THere is a problem of Zelensky...he has the same name of Putin...coincidence?

Hahaha. So we shouldn't be so harsh with poor Biden that he can't tell the difference between those two.