why ukraine should not be innocent

i'm not a fan of ukraine and russia ...i'm very neutral for this war but i believe in some conspiracies .
There are no real army teams only private teams that do the war in kerson for lot of problems
There are reasons to do this war in lot of countries
And those reasons are around building used for criminal purposes so zelensky is not cought because he knows this reality
and you? what do you believe?
Is only a question of field or there is more??
In the end kerson will be a neutral state and be tuned for the nuclear warfare that will finish the war

Methinks you gonna need a linky for this summation.

As sparse and frazzled as it is.

a reply to: joy36k

You don't seem to make a lot of sense?

a reply to: joy36k

That sounds like an opinion as opposed to the fact of the matter.

a reply to: joy36k

I don’t see anyone invading China over their treatment of the Uyghurs, or Myanmar with their Muslims, host of ME countries with the Kurds, Iran with Albanians ect ect.

Multicultural countries often have a disparity of power between majorities and minorities. Sometimes that contention can reach a breaking point.

Let’s just say that the Russians didn’t stir the pot on eastern Ukraine for arguments sake… they’re not unique in struggling with regions or ethnicities seeking autonomy. Many countries don’t capitulate to parts of their country breaking off. Many of those nations are still not invaded.

The Russians are however unique in the modern era for a major nation annexing land. Little bit different than going in to “liberate” then leaving.

Some would argue Russia has historic claims to this land. To which we could then evaluate Kaliningrad, Manchuria, Kuril Islands along with other territory that wasn’t theirs before WWII.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

How many US bases have been closed abroad Stinky?

Right or wrong, we the US, certainly shouldn't be the ones to say "Hey! You can't take that!"

Yet we may just stand the most to gain depending on where all that Blackrock revenue ends up.


Also, for the sake of argument I'm leaving out everything that lead up to this point.

a reply to: JinMI

Not every country benefits from those agreements, but a lot do.

Some countries don’t have militaries and get to live under the umbrella while we get forward operating bases.

Others are paying us back like Germany and Japan who are in the top ten economies despite their transgressions in WWII.

But again, I’d argue it’s a bit different than us just absorbing their countries. Some African countries are kicking us out and we’re leaving, doesn’t look like Ukraine gets the same luxury.

That said, we often don’t have the “authority” to tell someone you can’t do that. But in this rare case we did tell Ukraine we’d help them protect their sovereignty should it come under threat. Russia was a signatory to said agreement, so I’m surprised by their pikachu shocked face that we’re using the opportunity to butt into their regional interests.

What I understand, Ukraine was left in the too hard basket after WW2. The design was to be independent of EU/NATO and Russia. Biden broke that deal with his $1 Billion bribe, others in the US state department in on it too. Trump got one impeachment for making a phone call about it.

a reply to: kwaka

Trump was the first to provide them with lethal aid, so the issue has been bipartisan.

He also said in the months following the new invasion that Biden wasn’t doing enough, implying US drones should be directly involved.

Starts at about 1:45

a reply to: joy36k

Russia had more of a valid reason to invade Ukraine than the US had for invading Iraq.

There had been agreements for 30 years that NATO would not expand to countries that bordered Russia.

Then in Feb 2022 the VP of the US said that we would make Ukraine a NATO member.

This of course followed the 37 bio-weapons labs the DOD was operating in Ukraine.

And don't forget the US staged a coup in 2014 that installed a US puppet as the Ukrainian President.

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: joy36k

Russia had more of a valid reason to invade Ukraine than the US had for invading Iraq.

There had been agreements for 30 years that NATO would not expand to countries that bordered Russia.

Then in Feb 2022 the VP of the US said that we would make Ukraine a NATO member.

This of course followed the 37 bio-weapons labs the DOD was operating in Ukraine.

And don't forget the US staged a coup in 2014 that installed a US puppet as the Ukrainian President.

Good luck getting any traction with the truth here...watchitBurn...

The propaganda swallowers...are too invested in justifying their fact deprived stances to ever admit that it was their own team that purposely brought about this clash of civilizations...

Frankly...I'm just glad to see their team getting it's ass handed to it...daily...


Cue the sycophants in ...3...2...1...



YouSir

a reply to: joy36k
English not your first language? That's ok, I think I have the gist of what you are saying.

Lot's of criminal fingers in the Ukraine pie and not one of them give a damn about the Ukrainian people. I don't buy into the idea Russia bad and everyone else righteous. All war is evil and the people who want and support this war have no idea what the hidden hands are really up to. And that includes Zelensky, the useful idiot.

All just my opinion.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

He also said in the months following the new invasion that Biden wasn’t doing enough, implying US drones should be directly involved.

With what I have seen of Trump, he will blow stuff up. He gets to the point and stops the conflict inflaming. Not into perpetual conflict.

If a few drone strikes stopped the millions displaced and many dead?

a reply to: watchitburn

There had been agreements for 30 years that NATO would not expand to countries that bordered Russia.

there was nothing legally binding in the documents for that. if you think so produce one.
the only agreement was that no NATO forces wouldn't be stationed in East Germany.

just because gorbachev and his people misunderstood comments or what they thought were assurances made during the reunification talks while the USSR was still intact not broken up yet into former states yet doesn't make it true.

here from a interview with gorbachev in from 2014

RBTH: One of the key issues that has arisen in connection with the events in Ukraine is NATO expansion into the East. Do you get the feeling that your Western partners lied to you when they were developing their future plans in Eastern Europe? Why didn’t you insist that the promises made to you – particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East – be legally encoded? I will quote Baker: “NATO will not move one inch further east.”

M.G.: The topic of “NATO expansion” was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a singe Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn’t bring it up, either. Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces from the alliance would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement, mentioned in your question, was made in that context. Kohl and [German Vice Chancellor Hans-Dietrich] Genscher talked about it.
Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled. The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been observed all these years. So don’t portray Gorbachev and the then-Soviet authorities as naïve people who were wrapped around the West’s finger. If there was naïveté, it was later, when the issue arose. Russia at first did not object.
The decision for the U.S. and its allies to expand NATO into the east was decisively made in 1993. I called this a big mistake from the very beginning. It was definitely a violation of the spirit of the statements and assurances made to us in 1990. With regards to Germany, they were legally enshrined and are being observed.

Mikhail Gorbachev: I am against all walls

notice he said it was later when russia objected to it.

there was also no agreements that russia wouldn't try to expand, so why on earth would NATO countries agree to not allowing countries that wanted to join to help them protect themselves.

a reply to: watchitburn

There had been agreements for 30 years that NATO would not expand to countries that bordered Russia.

So russia has a beef with nato and invades ukraine... dont quite follow the logic.

That action then drove two other nations that never showed much interest in joining nato into joining nato afraid they would be next on the menu.

I would chalk this up to, cut your nose off to spite your face saying..

ETA: to the OP, I dont know anyone that ever said Ukraine was pure as the driven snow, of course they played a part in all this but at the end of the day they were invaded not russia.

a reply to: Irishhaf


Ummm…kinda like

Iraq…
Syria…
Libya…
Serbia…
Afghanistan…


How many countries is the US illegally occupying…as we speechify…?


Ain’t perspective a cunnin thing…






YouSir

a reply to: covent

I don't buy into the idea Russia bad and everyone else righteous.

I think they’re just misunderstood. Just because major countries stopped taking their neighbors lands almost a hundred years ago doesn’t mean you can’t. They’re fighting the globalist by not recognizing a countries sovereignty.

Plus, they’ve made defense agreements with North Korea and Iran who are also misunderstood.

It’s just so refreshing that those three countries along with China are willing to stand up to wokism, and their citizens are the real winners.

Putin, and the leaders in his coalition are champions of humanity.

a reply to: CriticalStinker


Ummm...I know...right...?

I mean...in the todays...all the west takes...is their resources...and then turns them all into debt slaves...just like us...

Can you give me an OOOH AHHHH...for the home team...


GOD...you sound more like a gubment stooge with every turn of the globe...

He so proud of the chaos Daddy.gov foists off on the rest of the planet...all in the name of..."Truth...Justice...and the American way"...

Can we all say...caricature...?








YouSir

a reply to: YouSir

That’s a good point. If must be why all the former USSR countries are just waiting in line to get back into the Russian sphere of influence.

They just didn’t know how good they had it until it was gone.

Ukraine almost made a bad decision by leaning west, luckily Russia won’t let them make an oopsie, so they’ll just get absorbed. I mean, how can they not see that they’re being liberated yet? All they have to do is look at the failure of Poland.

a reply to: YouSir

Not Afghanistan, for a start?