1955 Flying Saucer shot down by RED WING pilots over The Bull of the Woods central Oregon

The main problem I see with a large portion of the UFO community is their fixation on physical craft and general almost intentional ignorance of science and physics. That, and the fixation that E.T. is going to have a form-factor like humans (i.e. a head, torso, 2 arms and 2 legs). If UFO's weren't already rare enough, then UFO's bearing those characteristics are probably the unicorns of the UFO world! They'd even be like hen's teeth to E.T. himself, very rare.

Only recently has there been some potential 'evidence' of what a real UFO might look like. Given the distances involved in interstellar space travel, the chances of a physical craft like a "flying saucer" is about zero. A 'real' UFO is probably going to manifest itself as a point of energy, or some other zero-mass type construct. It's not going to be something humans can readily comprehend, and they will start out as just completely unexplainable phenomenon.

I've always felt most of the UFO community was just a bunch of hucksters who camped on the idea that "aliens" will look like us. I think they believe that more people will believe them if they make aliens out to be similar to humans. This way people might be more willing to accept them. These assumptions, IMO, are way off base.

Aliens and craft from another planet in the universe don't have to follow our rules. There ARE no rules. Our perception of aliens as a single autonomous being like a human are probably WAY off. An alien life form is more likely to be something like a cloud of increased energy, or a 'borg'-like collective intelligence form. It's not going to be individual 'beings' who go hop in their spaceship like a car and drive to 7-11. It's just not like that...or won't be like that.

For all we know, extra-terrestrial life could be among us all the time. It could have existed throughout human history and lived right in the middle of us without knowing it since the dawn of time. Possibly even more than one type, thousands or even millions of different types, from different places, even...and we just don't recognize it. They could be traveling to and from their 'home' on a regular basis and we don't even know it. They could even exist inside our bodies or the bodies of other animals in some kind of a symbiotic existence with our physiology.

Our perception is E.T. comes from a 'planet'. Who says E.T. has to come from a planet, who made that rule? We humans come from a planet, but E.T. doesn't have to. These are all preconceptions made up by humans. E.T. could come from a star, or simply from the void of space. People naturally believe that E.T. needs resources (hence a planet) to build their 'space car' to come visit us. It won't be anything like that. E.T. may not be like an individual life form at all, but rather some form of intelligence which exists independent of a physical form.

The problem is...that E.T. and his associated craft are just "no fun". They don't get shot down by antiquated jet fighters from secret fighter squadrons and taken to Area 51, 52 and 53. Bummer! That's no fun at all, now is it?

This is the problem as I see it with the whole UFO and aliens discussion.

edit - If the point of the UFO discussion is to have fun science fiction and fantasy debates, this is fine, but accept it as that. On the other hand, if people are serious about actually discovering extra-terrestrial life forms then we need to look at things far more scientifically, and that may be more tedious than fun. Grainy alleged 1955 pictures of flying saucers and toy army men, along with deathbed confessions from 'some guy' supporting the validity of these stories is not helping the discovery of real UFOs, UAP's and extra-terrestrial life forms, only hurting it.

originally posted by: pianopraze

originally posted by: Encia22
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Ok, we have a sort of timeline, too.

That Tamiya kit was first released in 1984, so the hoax couldn’t have been done before that year.

The kit is not available anymore on Tamiya’s website, but there are many kits still available worldwide on the second-hand market.

Going even further, it’s obvious that the hoaxed photo was made after the release of Wayne Sturgill’s book, “Ominous: The Nexus and Reality of Flying Saucers”, because it reproduces the artist’s impression drawing in the book.

The book was first published April 20, 2023…

So, the hoaxed photo was made between that date and when Ron James declares he met the person (in Oregon) who approached him with the 1955 story.

That could have been during the UFO Festival in McMinnville, Oregon, May 17–18, 2024.

I think the drawing in the book was literally shown to be made from tracing the photo.

So the photo had to be made before the book was released.

Ok, my bad, I see that now and it makes more sense.

Here's the overlay (from Twitter)

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

The thing is though that those apparently physical craft and ET forms are what is being reported and could be the appearance that some type of NHI is projecting, for whatever reason.

So until there is some form of real time data acquisition made publicly accessible the grainy pictures and witness reports are pretty much all there is - unless individuals embark on what are potentially dangerous paths.

originally posted by: ArMaP
a reply to: DaydreamerX

I'm surprised we haven't seen an UFO crash scene a flying UFO made with a 3D printer.

Old time hoaxers had to work harder to fool people.

I thought about that, too. I've scoured multiple repositories for 3D printer designs and couldn't find any matches.

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

That's an interesting take on what it could be.

The little nub does point to it being something molded or cast.

Whoever made the diorama did a decent enough job... at least enough to fool James & Co. into thinking we could be fooled, too.

I think that lighting effects and making the picture look old are more easily done with photo editing software, so that was probably the least of their worries.

a reply to: Encia22

Looks like a hubcap off a '49 Buick and some toy army men.

a reply to: pianopraze

Greatjob, thanks

Here's a pretty good debunking video.

This guy does a lot of debunking and it's pretty good.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

deathbed confessions from 'some guy' supporting the validity of these stories is not helping the discovery of real UFOs, UAP's and extra-terrestrial life forms, only hurting it.

Deathbed confessions are funny sometimes…..of course worthy of their own thread..…but to sidebar just one of them, ‘Boyd Bushman’ only because the 1955 hoaxed photo came in association with a “deathbed” confession as well. The original deathbed confession of ‘Boyd Bushman’ is out there somewhere in the WWW…….but here’s a debunk video in a nutshell….

A classic example how a viewer would take the Alien photograph literally at face value…because someone is dying…and has to clear their conscience before departing their own existence.

Even liars die with lies……tall tales for the elderly generation…..perhaps the last laugh.

Debunk vid uploaded to YouTube about 9 yrs ago…


It could be that unscrupulous video producer’s targets and fools the elderly near death to say things and present props of such things…..perhaps producers promising that the dying persons, still living loved ones, will receive money for doing the video.

👽☕️🍩

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1

When I look at the drawing….against the craft itself in the photograph…I see an eye that has been cut off a latex rubber mask and laid horizontally……I’ve removed the soldiers….and rotated the eye craft vertically to make my point….

Of course for diorama purposes the artist/modeler blend the eye into the crash scene…taking care of any rough cut rubber latex edges…and then there’s the lighting added for the darkish camera effects.

Hmmm

👽🤔🤓🥃

Looks about right to me.

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1

Deathbed confessions are funny sometimes…..of course worthy of their own thread..…but to sidebar just one of them, ‘Boyd Bushman’ only because the 1955 hoaxed photo came in association with a “deathbed” confession as well. The original deathbed confession of ‘Boyd Bushman’ is out there somewhere in the WWW…….but here’s a debunk video in
👽☕️🍩

That is not this case.

I take your point but it will add confusion to this case/thread.



99% of UFOlogy is crap.

Yet I think there is real craft flying in our skies. Don’t know if they’re ours or some sort of other.

I especially believe the recent military whistleblowers I’ve been highlighting in other threads.

This one is more and more... suspect. Waiting on the deathbed info to come out before final judgment.

a reply to: pianopraze

Gotcha …I take your point as well

Moving forward….Imo….this case is wrap. Ron James doesn’t have a leg to stand on. In the court of public opinion….he looses.

👽🍻

originally posted by: baddmove
Here's a pretty good debunking video.

This guy does a lot of debunking and it's pretty good.

"I didn’t watch it myself"

This is another problem in UFOlogy. The "debunkers" are just as bad as believers… often worse.

They refuse to put in any effort and stand like gods on mountains making vast proclamations.



UFO Twitter took this case, watched all the info, found all the original photos, posted them, found the soldiers used to make the photos, posted them.

This is real, honest way to go about it.

a reply to: baddmove

👍🏼🍻

👽☕️🍩

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I agree,
however there is another possibility: UFOs could be a hoax, objects created specifically to make us believe something.

The main problem I see with a large portion of the UFO community is their fixation on physical craft and general almost intentional ignorance of science and physics.

In this case I can't believe that Ron James is in bad faith, he would be too stupid. I think the desire to make money is clouding people's minds: too many people hope to make money from this disclosure process.
This is very disappointing ... they are not interested in understanding and therefore do not realize the gravity of the situation.

Right then, The Black Vault has a new interview on the 1955 case.

John Greenewald, Jr. talks with Ron James about the possible hoax.

James shows a new photo of the UFO in a storage area and immediately I had the same feeling as with the other pic. Without going crazy searching, I went to The Black Vault Twitter page and found a clip of the interview on Twitter.

Again, another Tamiya figurine pops up from avid researchers. And the UFO appears to be sat on what look like dominoes. See all the images below.


UFO:



Tamiya Tank:


Figurine:


Dominoes:


Full Youtube video (I haven't watched yet)


Go to 00:44:35 for the section in the Twitter clip.

Sorry for the hit & run post, but I'm headed out the door...

a reply to: Encia22

Did a bit of digging and found a German Army Tank Crew 1:35 kit (Cod: TA35001) Tamiya makes for their tanks.



The middle figurine seems to be the best match. Although, in the UFO picture, it looks like the 'person' is standing on a soap box.

a reply to: Encia22

Isn’t all of Ufology a soapbox! … opera that is 😄

Greenwald vid….

Ron James is lazy….he doesn’t want to do his own Due Diligence…..plain and simple….he’s using the Ufology community to do his work for him.

Despite lazy people in this world…..here’s my two cent’s

First off the bat…..the background looks like cardboard and painted or glued diorama plastic girder truss pieces similar to this…..and they are just freely placed without any structural continuation of connecting truss pieces to make any type of framing…..plus no anchoring pieces on the ends of the trusses.



Most striking is what look like common string (not steel cabling) and string knots and string tail end… on some lever looking plastic end of something.

The end of the string behind the ufo is attached to something indicative of the tartness of the string.



Looks like another diorama to me…..I’m leaning that the white blocks may indeed be dominoes

Ron James…..this is getting ridiculous…..wake up and smell the coffee ☕️

👽🤓🍺

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Yep, I agree. It looks like another diorama.

Here are some girders made specifically for models... very similar to the photo.



From: jaysmodels.com.au...

a reply to: Encia22

I’m going to suspect…..that when hubcaps weren’t used to hoax UFO’s……retro vintage metal lampshades were used instead ….just take two…put them opposite each other…a ring of material sandwiched between them.. for that classic look….Viola! a UFO.

Example of styles from many others…


👽

a reply to: pianopraze

Now I'm no expert and freely admit I'm only speculating here so please correct me if I'm wrong, but.....a 1955 fighter jet would struggle to shoot down a modern day fighter jet. So do we really think its plausible they'd be able to shoot down a craft that's capable who knows what type of travel and with technology far in advance of ours, even today?