US Special Forces Operator Kills Undocumented Chechen Outside Home in North Carolina

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: Irishhaf

I live in Key West, not too long we had a Chinese national arrested for taking pictures of one of our Navy bases around here.

My understanding is they found some strong evidence he was doing some sort of esponisge for China.

There’s really not much at the NAS there, however on Fleming key, at the far end is the Army special forces underwater training center. Known area to the locals but not really known by the non locals. Maybe the Chinaman was there pretending to fish?

If I were to speculate about what likely happened in this case, I'd probably be willing to put money on this scenario...

Public utility companies are known to retain subcontractors to do all sorts of different tasks. Keeping track of the condition of the utility's infrastructure is one of these tasks. These same companies will often choose the lowest bidder for many of these tasks, and at the same time these companies, being public utilities, also have DEI compliance requirements. So, it's quite possible an out of state utility management firm hired some mom & pop minority company to photograph the utility's infrastructure (i.e. lines, poles, transformers, etc.). This company, in turn, hired the cheapest employees they could find (to maximize their profits). This is all too common in many sectors. The employees in question just happened to be foreign nationals. So, this might explain who these people were, and why they were where they were.

So, some guy sees some other dudes poking around on his property with cameras photographing things. He jumps to conclusions and confronts the workers. But, because of a language barrier (which there clearly was, because even the Sheriff's office had to bring in translators) the situation escalates. Maybe the workers were hot-heads, or maybe they felt threatened, we don't know, but one thing led to another and a shooting took place.

This seems like the most likely scenario for what happened. No big conspiracy here, just a giant misunderstanding which lead to someone's death. Hard to say who was in the wrong here just by the information provided to date, but I'm pretty confident it will get sorted out shortly.

One other point of note, and I've actually had this experience personally on our property. Some of these subcontractors hired by utility companies are often these freelance outfits. They drive their own vehicles, and they don't have any uniforms or company logos. I had almost the exact same experience once (the guys weren't Russian, but rather Mexican / Latino). Fortunately, I speak enough Spanish to functionally communicate and was able to get them to properly identify themselves (or, in my case, provide me with a number I could call to verify who they were and what they were doing). I will be honest here, I was none too happy about the situation, and I let the power company know this. It's like...don't hire these people whom nobody knows who they are, and then send them, unannounced, out to people's property and expect things to go well!! One day things might not go so well...and I think what we're seeing in this case is an example of exactly that. In my case they were surveying what model of power meter was on the service entrance which put them literally behind my house between my garage and main quarters, INSIDE my fence, when I found them. And I blew a gasket, like WTF are you doing and who TF are you???

Anyway, I'd be willing to bet what I've described above is likely at the root of the incident.

On just a side note...don't be surprised when (not if) you read about this same exact type of thing happening to an Amazon delivery person. Amazon is now hiring these companies who send out drivers in their own personal vehicles, with no uniform or other ID, to deliver packages.

I've had it happen, and it was 12:30am in the morning when it happened! Seriously! Some dude drove up in the middle of the night. The dogs went nuts and I honestly thought it was someone coming to break in and rob the place. Dude didn't speak a lick of English when I confronted him. His eyes were as big as dinner plates when I came rolling around the corner of the garage with two dogs who were under control, but more than ready to start 'snacking' on this dude! All he could do was hold the package out in front of him, and mumble some middle eastern stuff. If it hadn't been for the Amazon logo on the package I wouldn't have known who the hell the guy was!

Our neighbor down the road had a similar thing happen, but his story is even weirder. One evening after dark he saw some taillights out by his dumpster, and some guy throwing stuff out of his van into the dumpster. He thought it was just some contractor trying to dump construction debris for free. So he went out to chase the guy off, but before he could get there the dude hopped in his van and sped off. So, my neighbor goes over to the dumpster to look what's inside. When he shines his light in the dumpster he's shocked to find it loaded right to the top with Amazon packages! Yep, the dude just pulled up and unloaded a whole van full of random Amazon packages into his dumpster. He's got the whole thing on video too! He had a night vision camera focused on the end of his driveway, and this is where his dumpster is.

He called me when he saw that several of the packages in his dumpster were addressed to me and the wife. He showed me the video. It was an old beat up Dodge van. Not a single logo or identification on it. But he got a clear shot of the license plate. I called Amazon and raised hell over this (so did he). Amazon said it was one of their contractors. I found out later that this practice is actually quite common in rural areas. These contractors get paid by the load, so they load up their vehicle and go dump the contents somewhere, then take the money and run. Amazon said they fired the firm who held the contract, but could provide no assurances it wouldn't happen again with a different company.

One of these days...sh** like this is going to result in something really bad happening somewhere. One of these days...

Edit...when I went over to the neighbor's house to get our packages (and see the video), I walked in thinking my neighbor was exaggerating about what had happened. He wasn't. His entire living room floor was covered from wall to wall with unopened Amazon packages. He was sorting through them trying to find out who they belonged to so he could contact people and have them come get their packages. (Personally, I would have just called Amazon and told them to come get their sh**, but he's nicer than I am).

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Yes, all of this sounds very plausible indeed. And I actually thought about that. If the company decided to send this guy out to people's property to do these repairs, they should bear some responsibility. They compromised worker safety. When my local power company sends guys out to do repairs or upgrades to power equipment, they send out notices and alerts to people letting them know their people are going to be in the area, and might in some cases need access to property. But they notify the people in the area so no one gets freaked out. This guy was working for a subcontractor, and like you pointed out, subcontractors arent exactly the best or most rigid in their practices. He barely spoke English, and its possible he was just sent out and told to fix something, and wasnt instructed to notify the property owner or people in the area, and the colonel had never been informed that people would be on his property, and it all went south from there. Thats why Im waiting to see what comes of this investigation, but I could see the details you have described as being factors in this case.

Ive experienced similar problems with other types of work. It boils down to poor communication from the company to its employees and customers.

originally posted by: Daughter2v2

Don't use the "I'm protecting my family" bit for people able to use your gun on people you don't like.
People like you make it hard for responsible gun owners.

I never said I was going to be aggressive. I said if two men came at me, I'm not going to fight them. That is a world of difference between talking and even arguing. Shooting people you don't like is not part of the situation, I also said if someone(s) came into my house, I would shoot them. I'm not playing around there.

So, let me ask you...two guys come at you to beat you up, or worse what are you going to do? You hear your door crash in at 2 AM two guys come into your house what are you going to do?

originally posted by: burritocat

Ive experienced similar problems with other types of work. It boils down to poor communication from the company to its employees and customers.

If it is true that he had just a camera and a telephoto lens, I'm not sure what job that would be for. Power companies use drones a good deal now too, so I think if he was operating a drone that would be more plausible.

I am not sure how much of this story is true...

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk

One of these days...sh** like this is going to result in something really bad happening somewhere. One of these days...

I see that too in people delivering in their personal cars. Kind of strange and it seems Amazon has a night shift too. Kind of makes sense as we assume deliveries can only be done between 0600 and like 2000. There is a whole 9 more hours that can be used. I do find it amazing I can order a bag of golf tees and they are in my pouch the next day.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
And I blew a gasket, like WTF are you doing and who TF are you???

Anyway, I'd be willing to bet what I've described above is likely at the root of the incident.

Do you have an easement or a right of way on your property? I don't think anyone can come onto your property without one of those, or they need to call the owner and ask for permission. If an owner does have one, then they should know about it.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: burritocat

Ive experienced similar problems with other types of work. It boils down to poor communication from the company to its employees and customers.

If it is true that he had just a camera and a telephoto lens, I'm not sure what job that would be for. Power companies use drones a good deal now too, so I think if he was operating a drone that would be more plausible.

I am not sure how much of this story is true...

Drones? Where? Where I live, they still use phones and cameras for all the repairs Ive seen them do. Ive never seen them use a drone. It would also make no sense if the object repaired was something close to the ground where its just easier to whip out the phone or camera.

originally posted by: burritocat
Drones? Where? Where I live, they still use phones and cameras for all the repairs Ive seen them do. Ive never seen them use a drone. It would also make no sense if the object repaired was something close to the ground where its just easier to whip out the phone or camera.

I'm in the drone business, so they do use them a lot. In this case, he wasn't close to what he was looking at if he was using a telephoto lens. Much better pictures too if you are trying to look at high-power lines and equipment with a drone. If it is close to the ground why would you use a drone? If it is also in rough terrain to hike, a drone can go up to a mile legally, which saves a lot of footsteps.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Well, just playing the devil's advocate here, there is a big push underway currently by power companies (regulated utilities) to upgrade their infrastructure, specifically transformers and such. This is in response to two things, 'green' regulatory initiatives as well as a variety of different kinds of lawsuits by consumers over solar arrays and utility metering and accounting practices. Just last week the power company was out in our area switching out the 'smart' monitoring on all the pole mounted transformers. They systematically hit every home in the County. In this case it was not the actual power company but a subcontractor doing the work. Just so happened I know the electrical subcontractor because of what I do for a living, and they were all more than forthcoming with both ID as well as informing everyone what was going on.

However, before any of this can happen, they have to send out survey crews to figure out what locations require the work and part of this can involve photography.

And yes, you are correct that some companies use drones for some of this work. We also have a 345kV line which crosses an adjacent plot of land south of our property. They fly that line with helicopters performing thermal scans of the insulators about once a month, plus also after any major storms in the area. They also use helicopters to perform hot-work on the line as well (which is quite a sight to watch, if you've never seen that kind of stuff before. Guys actually climb out of the helicopters onto the energized conductors and then move up and down the conductors performing various maintenance tasks. When complete, the helicopters come back and pick them up. Crazy stuff to watch, especially when they bring the helicopter to the same electrical potential as the conductors (i.e. 345,000 volts). They have this Harry Potter looking grounding rod they reach over and touch the conductor with. Before they make contact there's an electric arc about 8 feet long between the helicopter and the wire. Some of the best helicopter pilots on Earth doing this crazy-dangerous work!).

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk

And yes, you are correct that some companies use drones for some of this work. We also have a 345kV line which crosses an adjacent plot of land south of our property. They fly that line with helicopters performing thermal scans of the insulators about once a month, plus also after any major storms in the area. They also use helicopters to perform hot-work on the line as well (which is quite a sight to watch, if you've never seen that kind of stuff before. Guys actually climb out of the helicopters onto the energized conductors and then move up and down the conductors performing various maintenance tasks. When complete, the helicopters come back and pick them up. Crazy stuff to watch, especially when they bring the helicopter to the same electrical potential as the conductors (i.e. 345,000 volts). They have this Harry Potter looking grounding rod they reach over and touch the conductor with. Before they make contact there's an electric arc about 8 feet long between the helicopter and the wire).

I have two friends who used to fly that. The funny part is it really doesn't pay well for the pilot. Helos in general are not great paying jobs. We will see drones more and more. In the next 5 years, companies like Grubhub will be out of business, and you will see Amazon drones bringing packages to your door.

originally posted by: RussianTroll
I wonder what kind of howl there would be in the Western press if a similar incident happened in Russia.)))))
Killing a man over a photo... hmm. Is this democracy?

Our liberal media is so deeply owned by outside Deep State money that is the story they let us read and see their theatrical responses to influence us to just accept these things at face value because they said it was so. We have Communist Times news now. Our RT that you likely grew up with Troll.
ETA

Chechenians are Islamic terrorist in Russia IIRC. Lots of data over the years revealed that Obama has had a history of helping them get back at our Military in a treasonous manner that is yet to be delt with by our Military as of today. Unless, Q is real and there are white hats working. It might mean we don't know crap about Russians and Chinese to have an opinion on what the hell is going on at all really. Whatever is coming, even the prepared don't want to see it I am sure.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: burritocat
Drones? Where? Where I live, they still use phones and cameras for all the repairs Ive seen them do. Ive never seen them use a drone. It would also make no sense if the object repaired was something close to the ground where its just easier to whip out the phone or camera.

I'm in the drone business, so they do use them a lot. In this case, he wasn't close to what he was looking at if he was using a telephoto lens. Much better pictures too if you are trying to look at high-power lines and equipment with a drone. If it is close to the ground why would you use a drone? If it is also in rough terrain to hike, a drone can go up to a mile legally, which saves a lot of footsteps.

Sure, but this dude wasnt out in the middle of nowhere, he was on another dudes property in a civilian neighborhood near a military base. While its not exactly the big city, its not remote wilderness. Sure, I could see using drones if you are dealing with powerlines in the mountains and those tall electrical pylons, but not in suburban transformers and substations. And while some companies do use them, not all do. The guy who was doing the work was working for a subcontractor, and not a power company directly, so who knows how they run things, and maybe they dont use drones. Who knows.

Its why Im waiting for more information from the investigation to get a better picture. A number of important facts are missing from the case at this point to come to a conclusion either way, but where it stands the information could really point anywhere. There are factors that could certainly point to either tragic accident and miscommunication, or perhaps something nefarious. Wont know until we get a better picture.

a reply to: burritocat

Why did this trained soldier fear for his life and respond?

That is one big one to get to some answers.

a reply to: Xtrozero

But those helo pilots are some crazy-talented pilots, hovering that close suspended cables and towers like that (regardless of their energized status).

I guess I always figured they were pretty well paid. If not, there must be a whole bunch of helicopter pilots out there looking for work.

I've been following drone tech very closely as it has been evolving, specifically as it relates to deliveries. As you may know, I work in aviation, and I'm not convinced that whole concept is going to work out as smoothly as people think it will. Technically, the capability is there, but the liability side of this equation is off the charts (when you consider who all will jump on that as an unmanned, headcount reduction, option). Then what happens is the regulated aerodrome starts to drop down to treetop level which complicates a whole plethora of things in aviation, not the least of which is VFR aircraft flight. Things wind up becoming unmanageable in short order. VFR then becomes IFR, and General Aviation becomes a extinct. This is trillions of dollars in tax revenues and millions of jobs on the line.

And...then there's the legal side of all this in terms of privacy. If one drone can overfly your house at low level, then how are you going to regulate / prevent another (unwanted) drone from doing the exact same thing but for more nefarious purposes? Answer - you can't.

I can easily picture "all" drone flight to move into the regulated sphere. The FAA and FCC are already headed in this direction with ever increasing regulation on both size, range and altitudes for drone flight. Then what...it's illegal to fly a kite? Plus, the increased safety regulations will cause drones to grow in size when drone ACAS becomes a requirement (Airborne Collision Avoidance System(s)). And the list goes on.

originally posted by: burritocat
Its why Im waiting for more information from the investigation to get a better picture. A number of important facts are missing from the case at this point to come to a conclusion either way, but where it stands the information could really point anywhere. There are factors that could certainly point to either tragic accident and miscommunication, or perhaps something nefarious. Wont know until we get a better picture.

I guess my point was just out there with a telephoto lens to me seems strange. I just said that if he had a drone then I would think he was actually doing something with utilities. It was just my personal view on it all. I also don't think he was near the base, and no clue as to how much land he had or what kind of neighborhood it was if any. I thought the guy was a good distance from his house and he went over to him to see what he was doing, and it ended up with him shooting the guy.

a reply to: Justoneman

Chechens are wonderful people. I have been to Chechnya several times and stayed in their houses. Great kind people.
I want to tell you one case. In 1991, I bought a Volkswagen Jetta in the Belarusian city of Pinsk and drove it to Baku. We were traveling together with a friend. This is almost 3 thousand kilometers. It so happened that we passed through Chechnya at night. After Grozny we reached the road junction (Argun circle). It was dark and we mistakenly turned onto the road that went into the mountains. She led us to the village of Vedeno. This is the ancestral village of the main Wahhabi terrorist Shamil Basayev. I felt scared. It was completely dark, but in the headlights I saw a UAZ police patrol car. I stopped near them, approached them, greeted them according to Muslim custom, and asked for directions to Baku. They treated me friendly and laughing. They told me that I should turn back, return to the Argun circle and take the next turn. They also offered food and a house to stay for the night. I thanked them, said goodbye according to custom and went back. A year later, fierce battles were already taking place there.
Chechens are wonderful people and treat everyone well if you follow and respect their customs.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
I'm not convinced that whole concept is going to work out as smoothly as people think it will.

It will and is already in many states.

Technically, the capability is there, but the liability side of this equation is off the charts (when you consider who all will jump on that as an unmanned, headcount reduction, option).

Not sure what you mean here, but you need to be Part 107 and Part 135 is coming soon for drone with Part 108 a couple of year still away. Delivery drones' cost like 50k each so it isn't some garage-type scenario. They also need a contract with the companies they will deliver for, so it is big companies that will do it.

Then what happens is the regulated aerodrome starts to drop down to treetop level which complicates a whole plethora of things in aviation, not the least of which is VFR aircraft flight. Things wind up becoming unmanageable in short order. VFR then becomes IFR, and General Aviation becomes a extinct. This is trillions of dollars in tax revenues and millions of jobs on the line.

Once again, not sure what you are talking about. Drones are limited mainly to 400 feet and 200 feet is more than enough. Outside of military helos, no one is below 500 feet. Drones will also have transponders and detect and avoid systems. What this means even with a military helo the drone will hover and move away or descend. The Helo will also see the traffic. Just a different way to think about it all.

And...then there's the legal side of all this in terms of privacy. If one drone can overfly your house at low level, then how are you going to regulate / prevent another (unwanted) drone from doing the exact same thing but for more nefarious purposes? Answer - you can't.

Not really, The FAA owns the airspace, so shoot down a drone and you are in a world of trouble. If someone is doing something illegal that is on them. A delivery drone is flying along with a box under it/in it at 50 MPH and up to 100 MPH, so we are talking seconds as you see it pass by at 200 or so feet. These are not small either like what we see with the quadcopters. It will become a norm very quickly, especially if you can get your Chick-fil-A delivered to your door in 10 mins from the time you ordered it on an app.

I can easily picture "all" drone flight to move into the regulated sphere. The FAA and FCC are already headed in this direction with ever increasing regulation on both size, range and altitudes for drone flight. Then what...it's illegal to fly a kite? Plus, the increased safety regulations will cause drones to grow in size when drone ACAS becomes a requirement (Airborne Collision Avoidance System(s)). And the list goes on.

Well buckle up buckaroo when Part 135 is awarded we are talking drones that can be upward of 1350 lbs, right now they are limited to 55 lbs.

a reply to: Justoneman

The fact that he was a "trained soldier" is kind of irrelevant here. If anything, a 'trained soldier' is trained to survive above all else, regardless of how he accomplishes this objective. This nullifies the trained soldier argument before it gets out of the gate. Now, that's not to say it might not have traction with some of the crazy juries out there today, but otherwise it has little logical or legal standing.

Furthermore, there's already legal precedent around some of these 'trained' persons. The case of State of Wyoming v. Cantrell and Rosa v. Cantrell back in 1979 proved that Cantrell, a 'trained' law enforcement officer killed Rosa (also a law enforcement officer) in the back seat of a patrol car even though Rosa never drew his weapon or fired. The jury's conclusion was that Cantrell drew his firearm and fired so fast that Rosa never had a chance to draw his weapon, but what prompted Cantrell's actions was the threat that he was in fear of grave bodily harm and/or death. It was his 'training' which justified his defense. The defense lawyer in this case was none other than Jerry Spence, the famed western lawyer who went on to write the best selling non-fiction book "Gunning for Justice" and who defended other clients such as Randy Weaver (of Ruby Ridge fame) and Jeffrey Fieger (the lawyer for 'Dr. death', Jack Kevorkian),