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originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: charlest2
That was a short sleep, you must be as bad as me getting.
It's not about saving face.
It's about not capitulating to the whims of dictator scum like Putin. Same reason we fought the likes of Nazi scum in the last world war.
We don't start it buddy, but not do we capitulate or surrender one inch to tyrants neither.
And we will support our allies who choose to fight, NATO member nation or not
Thats just how we role.
Freedom to Ukraine and down with Mad Vlads scum invaders.
originally posted by: annonentity
a reply to: andy06shake,
This old skit came to mind.
I'll just say this, when the world is engulfed in nuclear fire, suddenly the idea of defending Ukraine and defeating Putin won't seem very important, it will be the last thing on the mind of most people
It’s funny you talk about Nazis and WW2… but you have no mention about Ukraine’s well known Nazi extremist national guard “Azov”
Another ultranationalist group present in Ukraine, Espanola, was set up by far-right Russian football hooligans. Its leader Stanislav Orlov has said the group was active in recent Russian attacks around the Ukrainian city of Vuhledar, including taking part in the operation of air defense systems and drones.
originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Imhere
People who support Russia being defeated and sent packing.
NATO, the west, those that RT keeps threatening with nuclear destruction.
Take you pick.
Edit: As to your edit, yeah Russia doesn't have anysort of problems with neo nazi scum amongst their ranks.
Pot kettle black little bit.
And at one point Russia was in lock step with the Nazis least we forget actual history.
We don't start it buddy,
"France notes that diplomatic channels are once again being abused to manipulate information and intimidate," France's foreign ministry said.
It added that "the Russian Ministry has once again engaged in a reversal of responsibilities, seeking to accuse Western countries of threatening Russia, while the latter has been waging a war of aggression in Ukraine for over two years ... and is pursuing its aggressive maneuvers aimed at destabilizing European countries, notably through cyberattacks and hybrid actions".
According to www.iAsk.ai Ask Ai Questions Search Engine:
Victoria Nuland’s Role in Ukraine’s 2014 Color Revolution: Was She Instrumental in Facilitating the Coup?
Victoria Nuland, a veteran diplomat and former Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs under the Obama administration, has been a subject of controversy regarding her role in Ukraine’s 2014 political crisis. The events that unfolded in Ukraine during this period are often referred to as the “Ukrainian Revolution” or the “Ukrainian Color Revolution,” due to the widespread use of peaceful protests and colorful symbols. While there have been claims that Nuland played an instrumental role in facilitating a coup in Ukraine, it is essential to examine credible sources to determine the accuracy of these allegations.
Firstly, it is important to note that Victoria Nuland did have significant involvement in Ukrainian affairs leading up to the 2014 crisis. She had previously served as the U.S. Ambassador to NATO and had extensive experience dealing with Eastern European issues. In December 2013, she made a controversial statement during a speech at the Washington D.C.-based think tank, the Center for European Policy Analysis (CEPA), expressing her support for opposition leaders in Ukraine and criticizing then-President Viktor Yanukovych for his decision to abandon an association agreement with Europe (Politico, 2013). This statement was seen by some as an attempt to influence Ukrainian politics from abroad.
However, direct evidence linking Nuland to the coup itself is scarce. The most famous piece of evidence often cited is an intercepted phone conversation between Nuland and U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt, released by Russian state media in February 2014 (The Guardian, 2014). In this conversation, they discuss their preferred candidates for key positions within the new Ukrainian government and appear to coordinate their efforts behind the scenes. However, this conversation does not necessarily prove that Nuland orchestrated a coup; it only demonstrates her involvement in post-crisis political maneuvering.
Additionally, there are several pieces of indirect evidence suggesting that Nuland may have played a role in facilitating regime change in Ukraine:
Financial Support: The U.S. provided significant financial assistance to opposition groups during this time through various channels such as USAID and National Endowment for Democracy (NED). While this support was intended for democratic initiatives and civic engagement programs, it could potentially be used to fund protests or other forms of political activism (The New York Times, 2014). It is worth noting that Victoria Nuland oversaw these programs as Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs at the time.
Diplomatic Pressure: There are reports indicating that high-level U.S. officials applied diplomatic pressure on Ukrainian leaders during this period, urging them to make concessions or resign (The Washington Post, 2014). For example, Vice President Joe Biden reportedly threatened Yanukovych with economic sanctions if he did not address protesters’ demands (The New York Times, 2014). While such actions do not amount to direct involvement in a coup, they could contribute to creating an environment conducive to regime change.
Public Statements: During interviews and speeches given around this time, Victoria Nuland made statements expressing her support for opposition leaders and criticism of Yanukovych’s government (Politico Europe, 2014). These statements could be interpreted as attempts to undermine Yanukovych’s legitimacy and rally public support behind opposition forces.
In conclusion, while there is no smoking gun proving that Victoria Nuland directly facilitated a coup in Ukraine during its 2014 political crisis, there is ample indirect evidence suggesting her involvement in supporting opposition forces and influencing post-crisis political maneuverings from behind the scenes. It is essential for future research on this topic to continue examining credible sources beyond those initially mentioned in order to provide a more comprehensive understanding of events surrounding Ukraine’s Color Revolution.
Authoritative References Used:
The Guardian (2014): “Leaked call reveals US role in Ukrain crisis.” Retrieved from www.theguardian.com... [This reference cannot be used due its lack of credibility as it originated from Russian state media.]
Politico (2013): “Victoria Nuland: ‘F–k the EU.’” Retrieved from www.politicoeu.com...–k-the-eu/ [This reference cannot be used due its lack of credibility as it originated from an anonymous leak.]
The New York Times (2014): “Ukraine Crisis: A Timeline.” Retrieved from www.nytimes.com... [A reputable source providing historical context on events leading up to and following the Ukrainian crisis.] - The Washington Post (2014): “Biden warned Yanukovych against crackdown before protests turned violent.” Retrieved from www.washingtonpost.com... 7d-11e5-9b9f -8b7b6d6f5d8a_story_html_79a6e9ea8b7a9d5768ccfc5d3cbecbbf [A reputable source reporting on diplomatic pressure applied by high level US officials towards Ukrainian leaders.] - Politico Europe (2014): “Nuland: ‘We want Yatsenyuk.’” Retrieved from www.politicoeu.com...–nulands–we–want–yatsenyuk–commentary/#! [A reputable source reporting on Victoria Nuland’s public statements supporting opposition leaders.]
One thing you not liking Russia, another is supporting and completely glancing over Ukraine’s well known Nazi National guard Azov Problem.
We’re not talking about “Nazi groups” in the world. Ukraine’s problem is a straight up Nazi militia that’s propped up as a freaking National guard there.
Running around there and harassing/terrorizing the millions of ethnic Russians civilians in Donbass will get anyone’s blood boil.
Unless you’re just a Russian hater and rather support Nazis because you hate Russians.
At any event, it’s a dumb move to prop up a freaking Ukrainian Nazi National guard against people and a Country that defeated them so bad in WW2, that Nazi SS begged to be taken prisoner by the west.
originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Imhere
You seem to be missing the fact that the Russian military is full of far-right supporters and just trying to lay the blame on Ukraine.
It was Russian who sent military supplies and support to disillusioned Ukrainians, it was also Russia who help in attempting to split up Ukraine, when it was obvious Putin wanted to attack and take Ukraine in the first place, which IS what he's done.
Your support for Putin seems to have blinded you to the far-right in Putins own forces.
Read the link I provided further up.....
In conclusion, while there is no smoking gun proving that Victoria Nuland directly facilitated a coup in Ukraine during its 2014 political crisis, there is ample indirect evidence suggesting her involvement in supporting opposition forces and influencing post-crisis political maneuverings from behind the scenes.
Nice try.
Is Russia renaming their streets after a Ukrainian Nazi SS lieutenant Stepan Bandera over the past decade?
Unless you’re just a Russian hater and rather support Nazis because you hate Russians.
it is worth remembering that, in November 2013, tens of thousands of protesters took to the streets in Kyiv, Ukraine’s thousand-year old capital city, to protest at the then President Viktor Yanukovych’s sudden decision to abandon plans to sign a free trade agreement with the European Union, blaming Russian pressure. As anti-government protests grew across the country, violence escalated, with security forces killing well over 100 protesters in Kyiv in February 2014.
With the central government in disarray, President Yanukovych fled to Russia, with the help of Russian military intelligence and Spetsnaz special forces, rolled into Ukraine’s Crimean peninsula. By mid-March 2014, Moscow forced through a de facto annexation of Ukraine’s southernmost region. Within three weeks, Russian armed groups had seized parts of the Donbas – Ukraine’s easternmost provinces of Donetsk and Luhansk on the Russian border. The ensuing armed conflict led to at least 15,000 people being killed, 30,000 wounded, with well over 6.5 million people being permanently scarred by the brutality of the war.
By far the most controversial aspect of academic research regarding the 2014 events in Ukraine relates to the search for internal domestic causes of the armed conflict, given its portrayal by the Russian government as a ‘civil war’.Footnote2 As early as September 2013, Sergei Glaz’ev, adviser for regional economic integration to Vladimir Putin, forewarned that Ukraine’s decision to sign a free trade deal with the European Union (EU) would provoke ‘political and social unrest’ and ‘chaos’, with ‘separatist movements’ splitting the Russian-speaking eastern and southern regions away from the rest of the country (Walker Citation2013). Two months later, Russian Prime Minister Dmitrii Medvedev cautioned about ‘the tectonic split that … is threatening the stability and existence of Ukraine as a state’.Footnote3 The main research purpose of this essay, thus, is two-fold. Firstly, it will critically assess the validity of hypothesised local causes for the armed conflict in eastern Ukraine.
originally posted by: twistedpuppy
a reply to: Imhere
Unless you’re just a Russian hater and rather support Nazis because you hate Russians.
ORLY? If I remember correctly, you had a lot to say about the Nazis in Russia. Does their attitude to immigrants and ethnic minorities still bother you? Does the fact that Putin at one time set up improvised concentration camps for troublesome Muslim immigrants make your blood boil? Or that he uses the inhabitants of the North Caucasus as cannon fodder, sending them to fight in Ukraine by force? I guess you didn't even know about that because you're an expert on taking things out their context.
Like you did with the Asov. Those people courageously defended their homeland against the foreign invasion. If the armed militias are civilians for you, then you have a peculiar definition of civilians. Many of those "civilians" were regular Russian soldiers dressed up as the militias in Donetsk. Back in 2014 they surrounded and mercilessly slaughtered the Ukrainian soldiers right up after promising to open the humanitarian corridor for them.
And no I didn't pull that out of my a**. I got that revelation from Navalny's s**t talkers on Yandex. Those poor liars can't even fiter their propaganda properly.
I won't be talking about the Nazi volunteers in the Russian army because that has already been covered. Anyway, spare me all that crap about the bad Ukrainians murdering poor Russian civilians. Civilians aren't usually armed to the teeth.
You talk about naming streets after Bandera. Does immortal Lenin in the Red Square bother you too?
Summing up, Ukraine has no more nationalists than other countries. This is not the justification for the full scale invasion. No matter how many mental gymnastics you perform, Russia is an aggressor here. It attacked Ukraine first in 2014 and then in 2022, violating the Minsk agreements it itself signed and that were meant to stabilize the situation. So let's spare ourselves all the crap talk about Russia wanting peace.