Are the 'Abrahamic Religions' all Really the Worshipping the Same Abrahamic God?

a reply to: [post=27356673]FlyersFan[/

WHY do you keep deflecting back to trying to make this a conversation about who has the right religion

I’m not doing that though, I can knock Catholicism just as easily as I can Islam, but as you have kept going on and on about the holy trinity throughout this thread, I went for the former.

Are the 'Abrahamic Religions' all really worshipping the same Abrahamic God'.

Of course they are, they come from the same root and there is only one god. It doesn’t matter what you name it, people of different languages have different names for the sun, it still the sun. The trouble with these religions is they all have twisted what god is into a flawed interpretation. No true religion would commit atrocities in the name of god, and they all have. No person with understanding needs a holy book to know right from wrong. The Abrahamic religions have all been used as a means of manipulating people and deceiving them to suit the agendas of those in power. They take people’s natural intuition and spirituality and pervert it as a means of control. Claiming god ordained this or that. Claiming you will get this reward or that punishment if you do or don’t do as the guy with the funny costume dictates.
It’s BS.

That is the fact of the matter regardless of what you choose to believe.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
I know. It's your arbitrary judgement that all 3 religions MUST acknowledge the Trinity. But, as I've posted earlier, not even all Christians agree on the trinity.

The vast majority of the 2 billion Christians agree that God is the Trinity ... God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. It's the basic Christian belief. Anyone who claims to be Christian and doesn't believe in the Trinity is an aberration from the norm.

It seems to me that Trinity doctrine is actually inferior, as it leaves out a biblical facet of God's emanations. The name of the God of Judaism isn't Yahweh or Jehovah. It's YHVH, Yod Hey Vah Hey. The Tetragrammaton is 4 fold, like the emanation that Elijah saw.

You can believe what you want about the Trinity doctrine. That's not the topic. It doesn't matter. The basic Christian teaching of 2 billion Christians is that the Trinity is the Christian belief in God. And that's what the question in the premise of this thread is about.

I guess the real question is, "IS it possible for Christians to worship YHVH?"

I pretty much already said that ...

Are the Christians and Muslims worshipping the God of Judaism, Yahweh (spell it however you want)., the tribal god, one of many, that got elevated to 'the One God'. They'd have to be in order to be worshipping the same God. And I"m just not seeing that they do.

Are the Christians and Jews worshipping Allah, the tribal god, one of many, that got elevated to 'the One God' when Muhammad went on his terror campaign and forced conversions throughout the Middle East and Persia? They'd have to be in order to be worshipping the same God. And I'm just not seeing that they do.

Are the Muslims and Jews worshipping the Holy Trinity, which evolved from roots in the Jewish religion and was 'revealed' through Jesus? They'd have to be in order to be worshipping the same God. And I"m just not seeing that they do.

All three - Judaism, Christianity, Islam - claim their God is 'The God of Abraham' and there are those who say that they are indeed worshipping the same God. But unless they are willing to worship each others version of that God .. I say they don't really worship the same God.

That is the fact of the matter regardless of what you choose to believe.

a reply to: AllisVibration

Did you not even watch the short vid I just posted on the previous page?

You're absolutely wrong accordingly.

originally posted by: AllisVibration
, but as you have kept going on and on about the holy trinity throughout this thread, I went for the former.

The reason why the Trinity was being discussed is because a poster tried to claim it wasn't necessarily Christian even though the vast majority of the 2 billion Christians say it is. It's basic Christian doctrine ... both Protestant and Catholic. Any non-belief in the Holy Trinity by a self proclaimed Christian is an aberration of the norm.

You just threw in Catholicism and confession for ho-hos. It's irrelevant to the thread topic.

Of course they are, they come from the same root

No, they don't all come from the same root. Islam started out with Allah being a tribal pagan moon god, just one of many. As Muhammad took over, he elevated his tribal god in status, and attached the 'god of Abraham' claim to it in order to try to give it more credence. Abraham never worshipped a tribal moon god, yet Islam says that same tribal moon god was the God of Abraham. It doesn't work.

The God of Judaism started out as a tribal god as well and got elevated in status to be the 'one God' as the people who worshipped that god took over other tribes in conquest and in level of importance.

The God of Christianity is a Trinity God ... God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy spirit ... which evolved from the Jewish God.

Does a Muslim worship the Christian God Jesus, who was tortured and killed by Jews, as their God Allah who started out as a tribal moon god? No. Then they don't worship the same God.

Does a Jew worship the Christian God Jesus as their God Yahweh (however you want to spell it)? No. Then they don't worship the same God.

Does a Christian worship Jesus as Allah who started out as a tribal moon god? No. Then they don't worship the same God.

Do the Jews and Muslims worship the Holy Spirit as God, and accept that the Holy Spirit is the sanctifier giving gifts of speaking in tongues and other spiritual manifestations? No. Then they don't worship the same God.

There is no 'of course they are' about it.

Ask a Muslim in Afghanistan if he worships Jesus, who was tortured and killed by the Jews, as Allah his God. You'll get jumped and beaten up at the very least for even suggesting such a thing.

and there is only one god.

There may be only one REAL GOD .. but that doesn't mean they are worshipping Him. Just because a follower of a god says theirs is the 'one true God' doesn't make it so. There are plenty of demons and entities being worshipped as a god or as 'the true God', that are not the one REAL GOD.

a reply to: FlyersFan

You can believe what you want about the Trinity doctrine. That's not the topic.

Your belief is that if Judaism and Islam do not accept that Jesus is God, then they are not worshipping the same God as you, which you're not even sure is the same God that Abraham supposedly worshipped!

The vast majority of the 2 billion Christians agree that God is the Trinity ... God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. It's the basic Christian belief.

The Trinity a mandatory Catholic belief. It's not so important, and even denied when you get to Pentecostal, Four Square and Assembly of God evangelicals. 65% of evangelicals believe that Jesus is a created being, a servant of God.
One-Third of Evangelicals Say Jesus Was Not God, Poll Shows

You won't find any Jewish sect that denies YHVH.

Regardless of whether one believes that "God" is manifest in in 3 emanations or 4 emanations or that whatever emanation "God" chooses to show itself, all three Abrahamic religions all believe they worship the same God that Abraham did, as it was revealed through Moses. But you're not even sure that the Abraham story is accurate or that he even really existed.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I know that there are Christian theologians - both Catholic and Protestant - who say that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam worship the same God because they all claim the 'God of Abraham' title. I've read their information and the information from those who agree with them .. but I'm not seeing it. They each evolved differently and they each reject the others 'god' while still claiming the coveted 'God of Abraham' title. I don't see how they could really be worshipping the same God.

You probably don’t see it, as you are looking at it from a rose tinted Christian glasses perspective.

Any Christian, Jew or Muslim would all claim they are following the Abrahamic God correctly and that the other 2 faiths have it wrong etc…From an outside neutral perspective (i.e. non believer) though, it’s clear that they all believe in the same God but just in different ways.

I guess you could argue that because all three of those Abrahamic faiths are all following the God of Abraham in different ways…that it logically follows that only one of them is following God “correctly” … but that logic only works if at least one of the three Abrahamic faiths is completely true in its entirety…

Another possibility is that all three Abrahamic faiths might have some aspects of belief in God correct but also have some aspects incorrect. Which would ultimately mean that neither of the 3 faiths is following God correctly in its entirety, but only correct in certain parts.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

No, they don't all come from the same root. Islam started out with Allah being a tribal pagan moon god, just one of many.
Does a Muslim worship the Christian God Jesus, who was tortured and killed by Jews, as their God Allah who started out as a tribal moon god? No. Then they don't worship the same God.

Does a Jew worship the Christian God Jesus as their God Yahweh (however you want to spell it)? No. Then they don't worship the same God.

Does a Christian worship Jesus as Allah who started out as a tribal moon god? No. Then they don't worship the same God.

Do the Jews and Muslims worship the Holy Spirit as God, and accept that the Holy Spirit is the sanctifier giving gifts of speaking in tongues and other spiritual manifestations? No. Then they don't worship the same God.

There is no 'of course they are' about it.

here is the answer.
I'm baffled why some of you can't or won't comprehend this. forget the names and labels; Muslims do NOT worship the same God as Jews and Christians.

and please stop with the all-books-and-faiths-have-their-insights. The Bible is the true Word of God and all the other books are deceptions and imitations.

a reply to: FlyersFan

You can believe what you want about the Trinity doctrine. That's not the topic. It doesn't matter. The basic Christian teaching of 2 billion Christians is that the Trinity is the Christian belief in God

Trinity is not just a christain beleif. It is common to the original first time religions. It was taken by the abrhamic Larp and modified. Removing the mother goddess..

I don't even believe that Abraham made any "covenant" with the first and only primordial God. I don't even believe such a thing is possible, and it appears more as an insult to accuse the prime mover of being involved in any such trivial affairs with arrogant and naive creatures that populate this 'zoo' that we call Earth.

I would find it much more believable instead that he communicated with highly evolved beings or aliens that were primary or intermediary descendants of this first and only God. Either that or he was just nuts.

Amazingly I get what flyersfan is saying.
To some degree she's correct.
Eg. israeli idol worship of Nehushtan (snake)
which jews believed had powers to cure.
en.wikipedia.org...
Eg. Yahweh isms many g_dS
en.wikipedia.org...
Eg. Christian 'trinity'
Eg. Islam Muhammad The last Prophet

Maybe NOT so much as Abrahamic roots,
However THE ROOTS are from the same SOURCE :
Adam and Eve were the first human beings created,
according to traditional Christianity, Islam, and Judaism.
So What went wrong ?
Well, judiasm became exclusively nationalistic and twisted with racist views;
christianity fractured into many fractions;
Say what you will, but surprisingly
islam still see's a common denotion,
a common root in "people of the book" and has not diverted.

J.C. is said to be THE corner stone,
yet a stumbling stone for judiasm.
. . . says a lot
_____________________

originally posted by: ToneD
Amazingly I get what flyersfan is saying.
To some degree she's correct.
Eg. israeli idol worship of Nehushtan (snake)
which jews believed had powers to cure.
en.wikipedia.org...
Eg. Yahweh isms many g_dS
en.wikipedia.org...
Eg. Christian 'trinity'
Eg. Islam Muhammad The last Prophet

Maybe NOT so much as Abrahamic roots,
However THE ROOTS are from the same SOURCE :
Adam and Eve were the first human beings created,
according to traditional Christianity, Islam, and Judaism.
So What went wrong ?
Well, judiasm became exclusively nationalistic and twisted with racist views;
christianity fractured into many fractions;
Say what you will, but surprisingly
islam still see's a common denotion,
a common root in "people of the book" and has not diverted.

J.C. is said to be THE corner stone,
yet a stumbling stone for judiasm.
. . . says a lot
_____________________

But the god of th bold testament is the same for all three religions.

originally posted by: Consvoli
. . . the same for all three religions.

The God of Adam and Eve story, is the same;
. . but humans have changed.
Narratives twisted, stories embellished,
definitions changed.
Greed, 'pure' race complex, fascism,
colonial domination . . . are to blame.

People have 'forgotten' conveniently, the
concept of ONE monotheistic God,
A monotheistic God has no use for consorts, or colleagues.
Priests, rabbi, just as politicians and rulers want to power grab.
Jesus said, we humans are ALL ONE,
the Quran says, people of the books are ALL ONE,
yet, some still stumble on that 'stone'


_____________________________

Total confusion, do what you think is right.

Dudette, find where the trinity is mentioned in the bible.

It isn’t.

Therefore it’s nothing to do with Abrahams God and not biblically correct.

I’m fairly certain you haven’t picked the brains of 2 billion people.

Try stepping out from amongst the crowd, your not their spokesperson, speak for yourself. Or in the very least seperate doctrine from biblical truths.

a reply to: FlyersFan

a reply to: FlyersFan

I suppose its a complex question that depends on perspective really.

But from a purely historical and theological standpoint, the answer would appear to be yes.

The Abrahamic religions share a common origin, but they have evolved in different directions with unique doctrines and beliefs.

originally posted by: Dalamax
Dudette, find where the trinity is mentioned in the bible.

It isn’t.

This thread isn't about if the Holy Trinity is in the bible or not. It's about if the Abrahamic religions all worship the same God or not. But since you want biblical proof of the Trinity .. Yeah, it's in there. Haven't you ever read the bible. It clearly states that there is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

Genesis 1 Verse 26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: ....
US ... OUR ....

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 8:58
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”

John 20:28
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

Colossians 2:9
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

Titus 2:13
Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

John 1:3
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Colossians 2:9-10
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.

John 10:33
The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”

2 Corinthians 13:14
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

John 14:16-17
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—
17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

Romans 14:17-18
17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,
18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

Luke 3:21-22
21 When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened
22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”

1 Peter 1:1-2
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,
2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

1 Corinthians 12:4-6
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them.
5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord.
6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.

Ephesians 4:4-6
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.

John 14:8-9
Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father.

Muhammad may have learned a little about Christianity, perhaps from one of his wives, and used his knowledge of the justice of God to bring peace to formerly warring pagan tribes but granted them license to continue to live in their rapport-seeking ways.

Even within one religion the rules are not always the same. The rule normally is "thou shall not kill" but if your life is in imminent danger, then it's considered the lesser of two evils to kill your attacker.

Many adherents to Islam seem to think they won't make it without spiritual rapport with other people, to provide help in their day-to-day lives.

They may think God gives them license to use other people because of extreme need but they may have learned to respect the God of the other Abrahamic religions and even use a knowledge of God to bring peace to their lives. It is said Muhammad's point was to bring peace to formerly warring tribes.

It is claimed the Barbary pirates would not attack a ship crewed by devout Christians or people of the book.

Genesis 19:4-5 shows they used to seek rapport in more violent ways than willful submission by bowing down together in a mosque:

"But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:

And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them."

I think now they at least sometimes try to Islamize people with less violence and only if they deserve it by more or less Judaeo-Christian morals such as if they took help from Islam or if they are assessed as having hurt Moslems, rather than simply attacking travelers like Lot in Genesis.