Are the 'Abrahamic Religions' all Really the Worshipping the Same Abrahamic God?

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg2
I'm sorry, but speaking as an atheist it's almost amusing watching theists arguing over which god is real. It's like watching people debating which sect of the Easter Bunny is official.

Maybe these stories have a lot more in common than you have been taught. It seems that way to me anyway. There is a different narrative given to the initiated than to the profane. The elite (Elohim) know this. reclaim you ancestory..

a reply to: BeyondKnowledge3

"
Then why do some of them hate each other? Even some sects within the main religns hate each other.

Organized religion is man made to control other men. "


whether man made or not,,,, if we did NOT follow religion
WE WOULD ALL BE EXTINCT BY NOW.....

every hundred years or so theres a major war between
the good peasants and evil elites.
only the good people are nice and dont
completely wipe them all out, and people are still born
that get spoiled and become greeeedy and repeat

look now, we got billionaires like bill gates,
with the means and opportunity and conscience
and member of the eugenicists, and many others
wanting to own everything and kill useless eaters

usa planning for decades for an extinction event
they are well on their way of causing, with miles
of underground cities waiting for the hour
to collect everyone written in
their "BOOK OF LIFE" guaranteed


now we got evil geniuses, super rich juveniles
with friends and chemlabs, just playing around
or planning a columbine style massacre,
with torture chambers in basement

professionals screwin around with level 4 deadly pathogens
with ACCIDENTS ON A DAILY BASIS, scorned lovers
wanting payback, fired employees, INCOMPETENT D.E.I. HIRES

no psyche evals on PRESIDENTS WITH NUKES,
reactor employees or health facility workers

point is,...... WE ALL NEED RELIGION, to help us BEHAVE
and JESUS wants us to gather daily
TO HELP EACH OTHER, anyway possible
like offering each other a job, teaching skills,
helping our kids with homework, or tests,
growing a GOOD community, and
helping NEW, overwhelmed mothers, with rowdy children
teaching them cooking, cleaning, and sewing
helping fathers fix a roof, build a barn, raise animals


if it wasnt for CHRISTIANS, most criminals would
just be put to death, or missing hands... tortured
we seem to think theres hope for them

so even if it is manmade it is badly needed
or the entire world would be chaos, madness,
LAWLESS, and SEVERELY PERVERSE

a reply to: glend

For I reckon that the sufferings of this time are not worthy to be compared with the glory to come, that shall be revealed in us.
For the expectation of the creature waiteth for the revelation of the sons of God.
For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him that made it subject, in hope: Romans 8

They are the same God. The differences begin after that agreement.

Biblical Jews descended from Jacob son of Abraham and claim to be the chosen people according to the Old Testament.

Muslims descended from Abraham’s son with his wife’s servant and they claim to be the chosen people according to the Quran who was written by Mohammad.

Christians believe that Jesus is the son of same God in the flesh and after his sacrifice everyone that believes in Jesus as the son of God are grafted onto the branch of the chosen people.



a reply to: FlyersFan

originally posted by: ForReal
They are the same God. The differences begin after that agreement.

Biblical Jews descended from Jacob son of Abraham and claim to be the chosen people according to the Old Testament.

Muslims descended from Abraham’s son with his wife’s servant and they claim to be the chosen people according to the Quran who was written by Mohammad.

Christians believe that Jesus is the son of same God in the flesh and after his sacrifice everyone that believes in Jesus as the son of God are grafted onto the branch of the chosen people.



a reply to: FlyersFan

The basis of all three religions is the old testament. They believe in the same God, the God of the old testament.

originally posted by: Consvoli
The basis of all three religions is the old testament. They believe in the same God, the God of the old testament.

Here's the problem ... they all say that they believe in the God of Abraham, yet each of their version of 'the God of Abraham' is different.

Judaism worships Yahweh, who was one of many tribal Gods and who evolved to become 'the One God'. Christianity worships God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, an offshoot of Judaism. Islam worships Allah who was the moon god, one of many tribal gods, and who became 'the One God' when Muhammad took over everything at the point of a sword. Islam and Judaism both say that Christianity and the Trinity are idolatry and that Christianity worships a man as God which is evil. And Christianity says that to not worship Jesus as God is to reject God Himself.

Yes all three claim to be the God of Abraham of the Old Testament but each has their own version of what that is, and each religion had their God evolve differently, and their versions are rejected by the other religions.

So how can it be the same God?

I know that the major theologians in Christiandom say that it's the same. Saint Pope John Paul II wrote on this and said that it's the same God. However, the Talmud in Judaism says it's not and the Mullahs in Islam say it's not.

For it to be the same God, Islam would have to call Jesus Allah and accept that He is God and that God Himself was tortured and murdered by Jews, rising on the third day. And Judaism would have to call Jesus God and admit that their ancestors tortured and murdered God just to have Him rise on the third day. And Christianity would have to call Allah "God the Father' and accept that Muhammad was a real prophet of Him. etc etc.

I'm just not seeing it. I know they all claim the same title - God of Abraham - but I"m just not seeing it.

a reply to: Oxidaddio

The glory to come is to serve Gods will. To remain drunk in His abundant love. What stands in our way. Are our little futile desires for the material world. That we need resolve before we can serve God.

It's quite simple. The Jews worshiped Yahweh as the Father, but recognised the presence of the Holy Spirit during some temple rituals involving the High Priest. For example, once a year the High Priest would enter the Holy of Holies in the temple, and would pray in tongues spontaneously, as a manifestation of God's Holy Spirit upon him, the person of the Trinity who was known to the Jews as the Shekinah presence of God. At other times, the so-called 'Angel of the LORD' would present Himself to the prophets or patriarchs - He was in fact a manifestation of the Son of God, the pre-incarnate Christ Jesus, appearing to prophets & patriarchs well in advance of His birth as a human being, as Jesus of Nazareth.

So although most Jews acknowledge only that 'God is One', it is in fact accurate to say that within the more esoteric constructs of their religion, examples exist in abundance of the second & third persons of the Holy Trinity being present in their spiritual life as a nation, through the experience of prophets & patriarchs. For 'political' reasons these days the Jews will not publicly acknowledge these accurate facts concerning their own religion, because they don't want to provide any support for the higher revelation of God's triune nature that was revealed to the Christian apostles shortly after the death, resurrection & ascension of Jesus Christ. At the day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit descended & manifested within the soul complex of each & every disciple of Christ who had been baptised in water & committed their life to the Christian 'Way'. The Holy Spirit testifies concerning the ascended Son of God, who now sits at the right hand of the Father (YHWH) as the risen Lord of Creation, co-equal with God Himself. The Holy Spirit is the also co-equal 'helper' manifestation of God who was sent to Earth to be with the Christians who believe accurately concerning Jesus, and the Spirit provides spiritual gifts such as prophecy, wisdom visions, praying in tongues, interpretation of tongues, teaching, the word of knowledge, and many more. As a Christian myself, I have the gifts I just mentioned, though not really the teaching gift, I do not have a position for that ministry in my church, though I am recognised to have an accurate prophetic ministry.

When it comes to the Islamic religion, there is only one thing to say: It is a counterfeit tradition which was inspired by the Devil himself, posing deceptively as the 'angel Gabriel'. Even Mohammed realised it was the Devil talking to him, though he later justified his interpretation of what was being told to him by this deceptive entity, in order to accrue power, wealth & sexual dominion over any & all women & children he encountered. He gave precepts of diabolical nature to his followers, claiming that he desired for his warriors to enter battle with their swords dripping with blood, while their penises dripped with semen (from the rape of women in the enemy culture which was established as a permitted perversion which allegedly, through faith in Mohammed, became somehow virtuous). One of Allah's honorific names (he has 100 or so honorifics detailed in the Quran) gives him the title 'The Greatest Deceiver'. This FACT of the Islamic tradition immediately proves my point, because in the authentic Jewish & Christian traditions, it is repeatedly acknowledged that God CANNOT TELL A LIE. It is literally a facet of God's true nature that He is unable to deceive, as it goes against His fundamental & inherent nature of truth, love & grace. The Islamic doctrine concerning this honorific therefore proves that the entity the Muslims are worshipping, is a deceiver. And the greatest deceiver entity able to manifest on Earth? Satan, Lucifer, the Devil. Mohammed knew it was Satan, but decided to spin the roulette wheel anyway, in the hope of accruing great power & wealth, an empire acquired by theft & genocide, convert or die, kill the children & rape the women, breed the natives out of existence, put heavy taxation tariffs on every subjugated vassal, subject the idolaters (like the Hindus) to death & slavery. The Muslim faith has always been about acquiring superiority & dominion over weaker populations - it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the legitimate faith groups of the Jews & Christians.

Jews were the ones authorised to bring YHWH's message to the world. They were the recipients of the original covenant agreement between God & Man. Later, when Jesus was born, He became the mediator of a new covenant agreement, which was all about the establishment of a means of forgiveness no matter what sinful crimes a person had committed before turning to the righteous path of Christianity. The original covenant gave the law of God that Man was supposed to fulfill; however, it could not be fulfilled because Man was a fallen creature. Only by the mediation of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross is a human being able to transcend the destructive working of original sin in his or her life, when it has overwhelmed them & left them all but destroyed. Jesus is the Great Physician who heals our wounds - physical, psychological & spiritual.

Summary: Jews brought the original covenant of righteous law; Christ was the fulfilment of that covenant & mediated a new covenant of forgiveness through His death & resurrection. Islam was a deceptive, false tradition established by Satan in an attempt to destroy the amazing progress that the Christian churches had brought to the regions of the Middle East & North Africa in particular over the course of seven centuries of development in those regions, it grew organically & caused great progress to be made by the follower of the Christian Way - the Muslim hordes swept over those lands murdering & raping Christians, forcing them to convert or die, or be subjugated in slavery, killing the children so that the seed of Christianity died out in those lands. Islam is about butchery, deception & general perverse savagery. It is a false religion - THE false religion (every other religion has reasonable human or divine origins). Islam is the work of Satan to destroy the work of Christ & to muddy the waters concerning the progression of God's plan from Judaism to the work of Christianity. There was no need for 'another prophet' (which is what Mohammed claimed he was) - Satan usurped the Judeo-Christian tradition & sought to utterly destroy it by the work of Islam that he created, in opposition to the true God of Judeo-Christian tradition, the triune God - the Father (YHWH in Judaism), the Son (or Angel of the LORD in Judaism) and the Holy Spirit (or Shekinah Presence in Judaism).

Islam is a work of falsehood which is intended to destroy the good works of God on this Earth. He cannot fully succeed, but Mankind is tested in the manner by which they judge this matter, regarding the deceptive seed that is Islam, the false religion that destroys all others, by a mandate from its original false prophet, who was a brutal warlord paedophile who married a six year old girl & 'consummmated the marriage' (raped her) at the age of nine years old & beyond. He permitted all his followers to do the same, and especially to take slave girls as well as up to four wives, and as a result paedophilia is rampant in Islam throughout the world to this very day, they don't even care.

I hope I have explained the matter clearly for you. Godspeed!

FITO.

a reply to: FlyersFan

You FALSELY accused people of arguing over which God is real. And that hasn't happened.

Why? How many gods are there?

Catholics believe all they have to do is confess and they will be forgiven for their sins right?
That says it all really. Catholics are more like members of a cult than anything with real spiritually.

originally posted by: AllisVibration
Catholics believe all they have to do is confess and they will be forgiven for their sins right?

No, that's not all there is to it. A person has to have remorse and intent to change, and they have to tell God they sinned and are sorry .. either through the sacrament of Confession or by telling God straight to Him without His representative helping with the examination of conscience and confession.

and yes, it's biblical for people to go to Gods anointed on Earth to confess their sins, receive spiritual direction, and receive forgiveness from God.

Jesus said to His apostles (who were to become His anointed representatives on earth just like the priests) - John 20:22-23 "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

and then in 2 Samuel 12 King David goes to Gods representative and confesses his sins, and receives forgiveness from God for doing so. When David is confronted by Nathan, he confesses: “I have sinned against the LORD” (2 Sam. 12:13). Then Nathan the prophet declares, “The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die”

That says it all really. Catholics are more like members of a cult than anything with real spiritually.

You don't know what you are talking about as I have shown by the scripture verses. ALSO - The topic isn't 'are Catholics in a real religion'. The topic is ... Are the 'Abrahamic Religions' all really worshipping the same Abrahamic God'. Catholics and Protestants worship the same God ... the Trinity of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Is that God the same as Judaisms Yahweh and Islams Allah? That's the question.

a reply to: FlyersFan

A person has to have remorse and intent to change, and they have to tell God they sinned and are sorry ..

Repeat offenders declare the same things to a court and jury, yet they carry on.

I also seem to recall the whole confession thing was born out of the Catholic Church’s need to raise funds, I’ll have to see if I can dig up the references.

If you need a particular religion and have to refer to scripture to parrot verbatim, and declare that way the only true way, you have no understanding of god or spirituality.

It’s like reading a book of electrical wiring codes and practices and thinking you understand electromagnetism.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Jesus said to His apostles (who were to become His anoint

Jesus is the city Pineal. The snake energy.. 33 inverbrates up your spine. to the city of light.. 33 degree. died at the age of 33.. Jacobs ladder.. or the masonic ladder to the blazing star..

Turn the eye inwards

For the love of god see past the larp

a reply to: FlyersFan

A God Who became man can die, and did. Nothing fake about it

Thats not a story found in just the abraham larp.. the stories in the bible are far older.. Our Gods are older. The bible has muddied the water of the truth....

how about the norse god balder

Balder has also been likened to Jesus Christ, likely due to the number of shared motifs between the two figures (a dying-and-rising god killed, though blameless, who heralds the arrival of a period of eternal peace

google (killed by wood) mistletoe

or Osiris that dies to be reborn..in the underworld (spirit in a tree)

or nimrod who dies and ascends. (a tree grows from him)

Jesus (dies on the wood)

or MIthras (Mithra would redescend and reawaken men to life.)


Funny the association between the king that dies to be reborn... and the wood or the tree.. Like the story of the last battle when the trees come back to life..

originally posted by: AllisVibration
I also seem to recall the whole confession thing was born out of the Catholic Church’s need to raise funds, I’ll have to see if I can dig up the references.

Don't bother digging up your 'references'. They will all be propaganda from fundamentalist sources and Jack Chick tracts. I gave you the scripture quotes that refer to what confession in the Catholic church is and comes from. It's scriptural.

If you need a particular religion and have to refer to scripture to parrot verbatim, and declare that way the only true way, you have no understanding of god or spirituality. .

I didn't say Catholicism was 'the only true way'. I showed that your statement that Catholicism has nothing to do with spirituality is bogus.

WHY do you keep deflecting back to trying to make this a conversation about who has the right religion .. and bashing on the Catholics. This thread has nothing to do with either of those things. Your bias is showing.

THE TOPIC - ... Are the 'Abrahamic Religions' all really worshipping the same Abrahamic God'. Catholics and Protestants worship the same God ... the Trinity of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Is that God the same as Judaisms Yahweh and Islams Allah? That's the question.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Don't bother digging up your 'references'. They will all be propaganda from fundamentalist sources and Jack Chick tracts.

Oh Please! LOL...

The medieval Roman Catholic Church sold indulgences to sinners who thought money could purchase forgiveness and a place in heaven. It's what sparked the Lutheran revolution.

To be fair, Judaism required representations of wealth, like cattle and fowl, as sacrifices for sin too.

Grace is an elusive thing.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
The medieval Roman Catholic Church sold indulgences to sinners who thought money could purchase forgiveness and a place in heaven. :

The abuse of the sacrament of confession back then does not negate the fact that the sacrament comes from scripture. It is indeed spiritual in nature, no matter if some people back then screwed with it.

And the poster is off in left field. He brought up Catholics just to dis' on their religion. This thread has NOTHING to do with if one religion is right over the others.

THE TOPIC - ... Are the 'Abrahamic Religions' all really worshipping the same Abrahamic God'. Catholics and Protestants worship the same God ... the Trinity of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Is that God the same as Judaisms Yahweh and Islams Allah? That's the question.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Okay ... so I"m putting you down for 'they don't worship the same God'. Right?

I know that there are Christian theologians - both Catholic and Protestant - who say that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam worship the same God because they all claim the 'God of Abraham' title. I've read their information and the information from those who agree with them .. but I'm not seeing it. They each evolved differently and they each reject the others 'god' while still claiming the coveted 'God of Abraham' title. I don't see how they could really be worshipping the same God.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Are the 'Abrahamic Religions' all really worshipping the same Abrahamic God'. Catholics and Protestants worship the same God ... the Trinity of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Is that God the same as Judaisms Yahweh and Islams Allah? That's the question.

I know. It's your arbitrary judgement that all 3 religions MUST acknowledge the Trinity. But, as I've posted earlier, not even all Christians agree on the trinity.

It seems to me that Trinity doctrine is actually inferior, as it leaves out a biblical facet of God's emanations. The name of the God of Judaism isn't Yahweh or Jehovah. It's YHVH, Yod Hey Vah Hey. The Tetragrammaton is 4 fold, like the emanation that Elijah saw.

I guess the real question is, "IS it possible for Christians to worship YHVH?"

imho
acknowledging the trinity is one of the basic beliefs of the Christian faith. Jewish and Moslem, by definition, do not accept the trinity and therefore are not the same as Christian.

just because the Moslems *claim* their faith came from Abraham is meaningless. I could *claim* to be a Kennedy but that doesn't mean I am one. judge the tree by the fruit. Christians and Jews are by no means perfect as they are often unable to live up to their faith's teachings.

the problem with Islam is that it's the teachings that lead to violence.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Is that God the same as Judaisms Yahweh and Islams Allah? That's the question.

Negative and you are absolutely right to point it out.

Yahwah is not the name of God

Yahweh is a desert pagen God

Jesus even taught us to pray to "Our Father" not
no false desert God named "Yahweh"

Let a professor from Berkeley explain