Are the 'Abrahamic Religions' all Really the Worshipping the Same Abrahamic God?

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain
In Jewish and early Christian works, Satan is used by God to test people using deception and trickery.

Theologically speaking .... God allowing Satan to test people is one thing, but God Himself being a trickster and deceiver would put God at Satans level. So it's different.

I'm trying really hard to see this as everyone worshipping the same God.
I really am.
But I'm just not there with it.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Mono-theism. Belief in 1 "God"... "Source", "Higher Power"... by any single "name".

I'm Gnostic. I believe in 1 God by a multitude of names.

God's pretty smart with those devoted....

a reply to: FlyersFan

Omnipresent and omnipotent.

Not to be funny but you're putting limits on God because feels.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain
In Jewish and early Christian works, Satan is used by God to test people using deception and trickery.

Theologically speaking .... God allowing Satan to test people is one thing, but God Himself being a trickster and deceiver would put God at Satans level. So it's different.

I'm trying really hard to see this as everyone worshipping the same God.
I really am.
But I'm just not there with it.

I look at it this way once a long long time ago people worshipped one God under one tribe, then that tribe split up and developed their own tribal cultures and behaviours, so of course their God must be created, or rather re-created, in their image.

a reply to: RAY1990
Not sure what you are saying. I'm not getting it ... sorry.

All I know is that if you tell a Muslim that Jesus is Allah and that the Jews tortured and killed Allah and that he rose from the dead ...you'll get the snot beat out of you. Probably the same thing if you told a congregation of Southern Baptists that Jesus is Allah and that Jesus wrote the Qu'ran and talked to Muhammad.

It doesn't look like the same God to me ... I"m trying to see it .. but I'm not.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain
In Jewish and early Christian works, Satan is used by God to test people using deception and trickery.

Theologically speaking .... God allowing Satan to test people is one thing, but God Himself being a trickster and deceiver would put God at Satans level. So it's different.

If Satan was doing that with God's approval, or even direction, the distinction is grasping at straws.

And if that's not good enough for you, God doesn't always do it through Satan. I found these in 4 seconds on Google:

Ezekiel 14:9-10 "I, the Lord, have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel."

1 Kings 22:23 "Now therefore behold, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the Lord has declared disaster for you."

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 "Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned"

God uses deception. Sorry.

What you're trying is to cling really hard to your mistaken belief that they're not the same God. It's okay if you just weren't aware. A lot of people aren't. Now you know. Refusing to believe established historical and theological facts is just silly.

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain
Refusing to believe established historical and theological facts is just silly.

I said I"m trying to see it. I really am. I'm reading everything everyone is saying online.
I get that they all claim to worship the God of Abraham ...
I just can't see Jesus being Allah ... and I don't think a lot of Christians and Muslims can either.

PS - Your quotes about the OT/NT God deceiving was good. Helpful.

a reply to: FlyersFan

It's rather simple.

God of everything
Or
god of some things.

Jesus isn't Allah and in the Muslim faith he's just a prophet. When it comes to the southern baptists it wouldn't be Jesus anyway it would be God or Allah if you must, there's distinctions. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand I'm not exactly a theologian and I can grasp the concept of a God that exists everywhere through all of time and literally knows everything.

The "feels" comment is based on saying God cannot do the things the Devil does. Of course he/she/it (depending who you ask) can, essentially the Devil is permitted to exist because of God. There's no way around that unless you convince yourself otherwise. I'd call that limiting the potential of God and making it a god.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain
Refusing to believe established historical and theological facts is just silly.

I said I"m trying to see it. I really am. I'm reading everything everyone is saying online.
I get that they all claim to worship the God of Abraham ...
I just can't see Jesus being Allah ... and I don't think a lot of Christians and Muslims can either.

PS - Your quotes about the OT/NT God deceiving was good. Helpful.

I think the best point you made was about Mohammed adopting the God of his tribe as the one true God.

But that doesn't mean he didn't believe that God was also the God of the Jews and the Christians.

originally posted by: RAY1990
Jesus isn't Allah and in the Muslim faith he's just a prophet. When it comes to the southern baptists it wouldn't be Jesus anyway it would be God or Allah if you must, there's distinctions.

That's just it ... to Christians Jesus IS God. That means that if Muslims and Christians worshipped the same God, then Jesus would be Allah. And I don't think that Christians and Muslims are going to embrace that.

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand I'm not exactly a theologian and I can grasp the concept of a God that exists everywhere through all of time and literally knows everything.

I get that. I understand that. I'm not questioning that.

I'm saying that Christians and Muslims and Jews do not agree on Jesus being God. They can't be worshipping the same God if they disagree on Who He Is. They all claim they worship the God of Abraham ... but they disagree that Jesus IS the God of Abraham. So how can they be worshipping the same God ...

I'm trying to see this as 'all the same God' .. cuz' that's what a lot of theologians say.
But I'm stuck ... I'm not seeing it.

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain
I think the best point you made was about Mohammed adopting the God of his tribe as the one true God.
But that doesn't mean he didn't believe that God was also the God of the Jews and the Christians.

Yeah, from what I've been reading, it looks like Muslims believe their Allah is the only God and the God of everyone. I could be wrong on that. But that's what I'm getting ...

BUT ... I think Jesus is the stickler. Do Muslims and Christians accept that Jesus is Allah? They'd have to if they believed in the same God.

I appreciate your input, YourFaceAgain.
I'm trying to see this. I"m just not ....

a reply to: YourFaceAgain

Wouldn't that be just a name then?

That's how I would see it, if Allah is also the God then the image has been somewhat elevated from that of a moon god.

That's the general theme I've always gotten from monotheistic religions. The whole body of a God would be endless but here we are looking at a toe and claiming it's definitely different than the other 9. I personally wouldn't see the distinction.

I totally open to be corrected on my views, especially if no preaching is involved.

a reply to: FlyersFan

That's just it ... to Christians Jesus IS God. That means that if Muslims and Christians worshipped the same God, then Jesus would be Allah. And I don't think that Christians and Muslims are going to embrace that.

Jesus was also a man. God existed before Jesus and after. How many people do you think actually study this stuff in depth these days? Linguistics are important so yes a lot of people would just get offended if you say Jesus is God and therefore Allah because they're practically the same thing. The whole Jesus thing being God is Christianity so good luck having anyone serious about their religion stepping into that trap. Might as well just ask them "Do you recognise Jesus as your lord and saviour?"

I'm saying that Christians and Muslims and Jews do not agree on Jesus being God. They can't be worshipping the same God if they disagree on Who He Is. They all claim they worship the God of Abraham ... but they disagree that Jesus IS the God of Abraham. So how can they be worshipping the same God ...

Maybe the Christians just wanted to start a fight? Idk what to say tbh, it's only god if that's the case? Step outside the doctrine for a second unless your point with this thread actually was finding out who's got the correct God? You did claim otherwise...

originally posted by: RAY1990
Jesus was also a man. God existed before Jesus and after.

According to Christianity, Jesus is God and has always existed.
There never was a time that He didn't exist.
John 1 - In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was
with God and the Word was God.

unless your point with this thread actually was finding out who's got the correct God? You did claim otherwise...

Nope. Not trying to figure out who has the 'right God'.

I'll restate what I thought I said at the beginning ... Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are called the 'Abrahamic Religions' and a lot of the theologians claim that they worship the same God. I can see that they all claim to worship the God of Abraham and thus the same God ... but I"m not seeing that they actually do. Being a conspiracy forum I"m asking if it's a conspiracy to lump them together and claim they worship the same God .. or do they really worship the same God? There is nothing in there about trying to 'figure out who has the right God'.

The stickler, as I am experiencing it, is Jesus. Christians believe He is God. Always has been and always will be. For Christians and Muslims and Jews to all be worshipping the same God, they will all have to claim that Jesus is Allah, and Yahweh, and that He was tortured and killed by the Jews, and that He rose from the dead.

I'm trying to see that they all worship the same God, because that's what lots of the theologians say and that's what we are told to think. But I"m having a hard time seeing it. So .. since it's a conspiracy forum ... is it a conspiracy ... or am I just not getting it?? Either one could be the answer.

a reply to: FlyersFan

According to Christianity, Jesus is God and has always existed.
There never was a time that He didn't exist.
John 1 - In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was
with God and the Word was God.

I'm not a theologian...

He's talking about Genesis whilst solidifying Jesus within it, the problem there is that's an old story which is clearly open to some interpretation depending on doctrine. Only Christians claim said presence otherwise other sects of the Abrahamic Religions wouldn't exist... They'd all be Christians correct? But the origins of Christianity derived from Judaism... Islam derives from them both.

Other than that we'll go around in circles with it. Disraeli gave a good summary when he said Jesus/God came to nullify the old ways, paraphrasing there of course.

My own conspiracy is more centered around limiting God via doctrine hence why I just call it the creator, anything else is mostly puny human thought in comparison. The height of hubris really considering we're very limited in perception. Like claiming it's evolution or creation but can't be both although that's drifting off topic somewhat.

I hope you figure it out to a satisfactory level for yourself, I'll be bowing out because all I've got to offer now is tail chasing, I would say listen less to people telling you what to think though, study it yourself although without faith you will just have more questions.

in John's Gospel Jesus said "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father." and “Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

John 14:9 New American Standard Bible 9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been with [a]you for so long a time, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? The one who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

John 8:58 New American Standard Bible
58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham [a]was born, I am.

this is not in the other three Gospels, which has always seemed peculiar to me, cause they are different, but they do mirror one another.

one of the ways biblical scholars and theologians explain the the trinity which has been already been hinted at in previous posts is called modalism. which is basically saying a man can be seen in three modes, as a son, as a brother, and as a father.

i learned a long time ago, that although you can learn from others about faith by listening to their teachings.
when it comes down to it, it's that small still voice you hear in your heart, spirit, head or whatever you want to call it.

for me, Jesus is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. when time comes everything i ever did wrong i will answer for, but i will not burn in hell.

a reply to: FlyersFan

It's very simple "a lot of theologians" are wrong because Allah
didn't send his son to die on the cross. Only The Father sent his son
so without Christ you have no God. We are made in the image of God.

Three parts body soul and spirit right there the signature of The Holy
Trinity is upon us. Jesus was either a nut a liar or he was who he said
he was. Three choices that's it. Coincidence? I seriously doubt it.

The peoples front of Judea vs the judean peoples front…

If aliens are watching they’re laughing their arsis off

I say it again,
Exodus 20:3: “You shall have no other gods before Me.”

That is saying ther are More Gods.

And that If you worship the god in the bible,
that you Can have other Gods.
just that He has to be first.

Gods Need people to worship them.
I guess that means Gods get power form worshipers!
they are parasites or symbiotes.

originally posted by: SchrodingersRat
a reply to: BeyondKnowledge3

The letter j did not exist 2000 years ago, make of that what you will for the names.

Wasn't Jesus also referred to as Yeshua?

Or am I confusing my deities?

This is the name Jesus/Yeshua in Aramaic. I found it somewhere a while ago...

The name Yeshua means "Yahweh Saves". Pretty apt, I would think.

Nope all antichrist spiritual Babylonian “modern sacred name movement” stuff

Egyptian is a language so ancient that it makes almost everything else on language
lists look like a trendy blip

The Egyptians call water by the name of Mo, and such as are saved out of it, by the name of Uses: so by putting these two words together, they imposed this name upon him. Hence Jesus- read true ancient (pre-liars) history below

Use the cobra hieroglyph for ‘dj’ sounds as in ‘Jeremy’ or ‘Jenny’.
The cobra sign is also used for soft ‘g’ sounds like ‘George’.

In that day there will be an altar to the Lord in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the Lord at its border. Is19

Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up John3

The words "I AM That I AM" comes from true Hebrew-
"EHJEH ASHER EHJEH". (Pronounced I-JE Asher I-JE)
Not Yiddish, Assyrian or Babylonian

He wasn't saying that His Name was "EHJEH ASHER EHJEH", but rather He was speaking a sentence that basically says "I am JE the beginning

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name than Jesus under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4

The Assyrian god of YHVH/YHWH is bisexual & transgender

The 4 letters YHWH/YHVH & all the translations from it are all Babylonian Aramaic.

YHWH/YHVH is actually the tetragrammaton name of Baal
Witches & satanists chant the 4 letters of YHWH/YHVH!

They are actually chanting the name of their pagan moon god Allah/YHWH!

Each Chaldean Letter of the 4 letters YHWH/YHVH are present on Witchcraft Tarot Card.