The Truth About Jesus

a reply to: FlyersFan

A person can not believe that the Talmud is authentic while believing that the Christian Gospels are authentic. The two are diametrically opposed. What they say theologically is the exact opposite of each other. The Talmud says Jesus was evil and so was His mother, and Jesus ended up in Hell. The Christian Gospels say that Jesus was holy, not of an earthly father, and was God Himself, and that He rules in Heaven.

A person can't believe in both. It's not possible. They have to pick one or the other ... or neither.

The different Bible versions contradict themselves in whether Jesus was the biological son of Joseph or of divine birth. Contradictions galore here.

As for just believing what has been written, do you mean what has been re-interpreted and revised and then rewritten by many according to their gospel? The gospel of the scribes?

I don't think what happened 2000 years ago is as important as how we live today.

We all know there once was a serial killer, that religion is as important as any other.

originally posted by: quintessentone
The different Bible versions contradict themselves in whether Jesus was the biological son of Joseph or of divine birth. Contradictions galore here.

I don't know ... it looks pretty clear that it claims Jesus was of divine conception. The Jews in the bible later refer to Jesus as the son of Joseph, and Joseph being Jesus foster father would give him that title, but the stories about the conception are pretty clear. The Holy Spirit 'overshadowed' Mary and she became pregnant by His power.

Matthew 1:18-25 20: But just when he had resolved to do this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for the child conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.

Luke 1:26-37 - And Mary said to the angel, "How shall this be, since I have no husband?" And the angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.

As for just believing what has been written, do you mean what has been re-interpreted and revised and then rewritten by many according to their gospel? The gospel of the scribes?

I'm saying that people can't believe in both the Talmud AND the Gospels. They are extreme opposites in what they say about Jesus. The Talmud has him as evil and in hell. The gospels have him as God Himself and ruling in Heaven. You can't believe both. It has to be one or the other ... or neither is an option as well.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Forget the Talmud for now, focus on the contradictions in the different Bible versions, was my main point.

www.bartehrman.com...

originally posted by: quintessentone
Forget the Talmud for now, focus on the contradictions in the different Bible versions, was my main point.

Oh ... well ... I read your link. I've read stuff like that before. I don't see the gospels as saying that Joseph was His human father in conception. People referred to Joseph as Jesus father because that's what they saw. They were not privy to the Holy Spirit conception story. And that information dismisses miracles. I accept that they can happen. I don't automatically buy into the story, but I accept that it can.

I was talking about the Talmud because that's what people brought up. I thought that was the flow of the conversation. I wasn't trying to deflect or anything. I'll leave it at this ... you can't believe in both the Talmud AND the Gospels. They are diametrically opposed. Jesus in Hell verses Jesus reigning in Heaven.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone
Forget the Talmud for now, focus on the contradictions in the different Bible versions, was my main point.

Oh ... well ... I read your link. I've read stuff like that before. I don't see the gospels as saying that Joseph was His human father in conception. People referred to Joseph as Jesus father because that's what they saw. They were not privy to the Holy Spirit conception story. And that information dismisses miracles. I accept that they can happen. I don't automatically buy into the story, but I accept that it can.

I was talking about the Talmud because that's what people brought up. I thought that was the flow of the conversation. I wasn't trying to deflect or anything. I'll leave it at this ... you can't believe in both the Talmud AND the Gospels. They are diametrically opposed. Jesus in Hell verses Jesus reigning in Heaven.

I'm still investigating the lost gospels, go to mark 1:30 on the video and again as in the Gospel of Mary, Jesus seems to be repeating how we all can enter the sanctuary of the spiritual realm and it's not by Jesus, it is by our own choices and deeds.

The 'Secret' Gospel of James - confidential communication from Jesus to James (supposedly).

www.gospelsofjesus.com...



You must be empty to become satisfied of spirit, you must be empty of speculation, etc. - it almost seems to be along the same philosophy of Buddha.

Again, from the video, Jesus speaks much about the flesh vs. the spirit. "Holiness does not attend to the material world."

In the video, Jesus keeps telling everyone they don't understand him, even when he speaks plainly (not in allegories nor parables nor questions to questions). Maybe the entire Bible is all speculation and guessing as to Jesus' actual messages within his Ministry, which I believe considering I've read many theologians arguing over interpretation - to this day.

Mark 15:46 - Peter challenges Jesus' contradictory ministry ... Jesus again replies that they/we do not understand what he is preaching.

www.gospelsofjesus.com...

Dialogue of the Saviour:

85. The Master said, “You have heard and understood everything I have said. And you accepted them with trust. If you understand them, they belong to you. If you don’t, then they won’t belong to you.”

86. They asked him, “What place will we be going to?”

87. The Master replied, “Stay in that place you can attain.”

88. Mary then said, “All that has manifested will then be seen.”

89. The Master replied, “I have said to you that one who sees reveals.”

Now it appears Jesus' is explaining manifesting one's own spiritual reality.

At the link above, there are many more gospels and writings/letters to go through to find out the truth of Jesus' ministry.

originally posted by: 19Bones79


In the video above, Mark Dice discusses how the different Abrahamic religions view Jesus, who Jesus really is, and what his arrival on earth means for Christians, Christianity and non-Christians.

He also notes how the relationship between Christians and Jews were altered after the Schofield Bible was published early on in the previous century.

Some good info here for religious believers and non-believers alike.

Mark Dice, a far-right Conservative Christian American conspiracy theorist, is going to tell us who Jesus really is?
For anyone who cares about what is true try some free videos from Dr James Tabor on youtube.
He specializes in the Hellenistic influence on the NT.

Dr Carrier has a free blog - www.richardcarrier.info...

Ehrman has a paywall but Jesus Interrupted is free online, a good book for the layman about critical historical scholarship
archive.org... 80%93%20Revealing%20the%20Hidden%20Contradictions%20in%20the%20Bible%20and%20Why%20We%20Don%E2%80%99t%20Know%20About%20Them%20-%20Bart%20D.%20Ehrman_d jvu.txt


Dr Richard Miller, Dr Litwa Dr Bowden and several other scholars have been on mythvision on youtube as well.

a reply to: joelr314

Mark Dice is a conspiracy theorist?

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: joelr314
Mark Dice is a conspiracy theorist?

Never heard of him before this thread so I looked him up.
Yeah ... I'd call him a far right conspiracy theorist.
He talks about the Illuminati. That's 'conspiracy' stuff.

Not sure how accurate but this is what is online -

Read Here

As the founder of The Resistance, Dice told KFSN-TV of his group's intention to disrupt theater showings of 2009's Angels & Demons because the film "is a fraud, aimed at covering up the existence of a secret society called the Illuminati." Dice contended that the Illuminati were instrumental in the September 11 attacks and the financial crisis of 2007–2008

In May 2005 through his website, Dice advocated for the Georgia Guidestones monument to "be smashed into a million pieces, and then the rubble used for a construction project", claiming that the Guidestones "have a deep Satanic origin and message", that "the New World Order is written all over them.", and that R. C. Christian, the person who built the guidestones, belongs to "a Luciferian secret society" related to the New World Order.[1][12]

In June 2008, Dice launched "Operation Inform the Soldiers", an effort to send DVDs, letters, and declassified government documents to U.S. service members in Iraq. Dice hoped these would prove 9/11 conspiracy theories and cause the recipients to "rethink why they’re fighting."[13] On June 10, syndicated talk show host Michael Reagan advocated on-air that Dice should be assassinated for having done so. Six days later, Reagan hosted Dice on his show and apologized for his comments.[14]

In June 2008, Fox News called Dice a "conspiracy theorist who believes that Freemasons worship Satan and that 'the United States military has built enormous underground cities for the political elite.'"[15]

Dice promoted the Jade Helm 15 conspiracy theories, claiming that the 2015 military exercises were preparation for a declaration of martial law in the United States.[16]

RationalWIki says a lot about him being a conartist - RationalWiki
There is more information there too about his conspiracy theories etc etc

Past life

“”Your only investment is $5 and a little bit of time and effort! It's true....please take five minutes to read this article, it will change your life! You will make up to or over $50,000 in 4-6 weeks, maybe sooner! I SWEAR I'M NOT LYING TO YOU, AND THIS IS NOT A SCAM! Read this through carefully, get a pencil and paper and figure out what will happen if YOU participate in this offer! If you're interested, keep reading; if you're not, please pass this off to someone who is. I apologize for wasting your time.

—Mark Shouldice, letting the 200 people in the Milwaukee, WI area he spammed this message to know how to earn the big bucks![3]

Mark Shouldice was your average con artist trying to fish out some quick bucks back in the 90s when he emailed people how to, apparently, make "fa$t ca$h on the net" using a university email address from Milwaukee Area Technical College.[4] Even though he finally did use Usenet and Google Groups for their intended purpose years later.[5] He then started "writing" books on training oneself to improve their memory[6] when he first was able to memorize people's credit card numbers pretending it was to bring awareness to his book even though he couldn't even make himself remember how to spell proper English words (like "anyting", "thier", and who can forget "toget" being one word) since he was busy using the credit card numbers to his own advantage.[7] He was even on the Laura Lee Radio Show about his book on August 28, 1999![8] You could even be able to even hire him as a wingman back in the early 2000s if you were in the San Diego, CA area for a "small" fee. Later, he decided to make a book named The Resistance Manifesto under the alias name of John Conner and liked the nickname Mark Dice because everyone he came across had no clue how to pronounce his last name correctly, who knew that later, everyone would know him by that nickname?[9] with people already knowing his true identity since he left his actual email on the WhoIs information for the site while leaving all the other info true to his persona.[10] That's right, he had a site about the book![11] Have we mentioned that the book is no different than what he does on his YouTube?[12] He then started making books on how to date hot chicks.[13] Even going as far as to advertise the book on forums[14] and making a YouTube channel for it![15] That didn't go well in terms of making money, so he started making conspiracy theory videos on his YouTube and the rest is history.

a reply to: FlyersFan

He talks about the Illuminati.

What exactly and what sources does he attribute these claims to?

You just mentioned the illuminati, I guess that makes you a far right conspiracy theorist?


This should be easy. Just get back to me after you've debunked his claims wrt the illuminati after you've rubbished his sources.

His books alone have hundreds of reference sources so that you the reader can check the validity of any claims made within the books.


You shouldn't need more than 5 mins right?

I mean, it's not like someone like you dismiss people out of hand right?

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: joelr314

Mark Dice is a conspiracy theorist?

That's like asking: Alex Jones is a conspiracy theorist?

On Mark Dice's video channel there is a video about Alex Jones entitled "He Tried To Warn Everyone".

Standard topics used to be (not as much anymore though):

NWO
Illuminati
Freemasonry
Bilderberg Group (one video from 8 years ago is entitled "The Bilderberg Group's Plan for Global Government")
Globalism (this one is still popular, as it is with Trump and conservative nationalists and patriots, a standard button to push to 'tickle the ears' of the listener and potential market; 2Tim 4:3,4)

Donald Trump now says he’s a “nationalist and a globalist.” (an article from 2017, but he said it as well years before his first presidential campaign; an article from 2018 is entitled: "Trump says he's a nationalist, not a globalist", 1 Timothy 6:20 warns about those using "empty speeches" and "contradictions" and advises to "turn away" from these people)

I also remember a video where he said something about Charles Taze Russell being a 33rd degree freemason and going on about the pyramid-shaped marker that can be found somewhat near his grave, supposedly having something to do with the illuminati and/or freemasonry; with Dice standing next to it as he was presenting his conspiracy theories about it (he may have twisted that to give the impression it was a marker for Russell's grave, or in some way connected to it; I've seen others call it Russell's "tombstone", calling the cross and crown symbol on it, which was in heavy use for centuries by adherents of Christendom with various variations on the same theme and was later adopted by Freemasonry as well, "the Knights Templar Symbol for the York Rite of Freemasonry", followed by: "This degree is equivalent to the 33rd Degree of Freemasonry"*). *: it's not the exact same symbol by the way. Like I said, there are variations on the same theme. Freemasonry has their own variation of it that they use (I used to know a video where you could see all the variations as used in Christendom and which exact Churches or denominations have used the symbol as well, so you could see the differences with the symbol used by Freemasonry and the one used on the pyramid-shaped monument or marker).

I think Mark Dice has taken down his video about it (mission already accomplished I guess, he seems to be targeting a slightly different market nowadays anyway, more the potential Trump voter or conservative, which Alex Jones is focusing on more as well, endorsing Trump to be King of the Swamp, supposedly to drain it, like putting Shrek in charge of draining the swamp, as if Shrek would ever do that; Shrek loves the swamp and would much rather be King of it for his own gain and pleasure).

a reply to: 19Bones79

You are getting touchy.
I said I never heard of him before.
I said I looked him up and he DOES look like a far right conspiracy theorist.
I never said his claims were rubbish, nor did I say they were accurate.
I said nothing about his claims.
What I said is that he is indeed a conspiracy theorist.
That's not necessarily a bad thing.
Unless you get really stupid and start claiming crap like 'no kids died at Sandy Hook
and the 'parents' were just actors bought off with free houses'.
There are some good conspiracy theorists and some idiots.
I have no idea which this guy is.

I mean, it's not like someone like you dismiss people out of hand right?

I didnt dismiss him because he made claims about the Illuminati or 9/11. I dismissed him because of what I read about him on RationalWiki. This guy doesn't know anything special and, instead of getting a real job, is making a living with conspiracy theories and stuff he doesn't have any training or special knowledge in. I know Alex Jones is a moron, and this guy is in tight with him, so that's another strike against him. And after reading about his background, I can see that he's not someone who actually knows anything special about who Jesus is. He's not someone I'd bother watching again. Don't take it personally.

a reply to: 19Bones79

forget about the religious aspect of it for a moment.....

just what do you think people would be like if....

the 3 billion Christians wouldnt have strived
for peace, love, truth, or justice? for the last 2000 years?
NOBODY giving thought to the 10 commands from GOD

think of C.H.O.P. completely overtaking society, EVERYWHERE

nobody would care about killing babies, or elderly, homeless, starving
wild west on steroids... i.s.i.s. taking over. many hitlers

SLAVERY EVERYWHERE USING EVERYONE POSSIBLE.
every criminal organization left unchecked and growing until
no ones left, then they gotta steal from each other
making todays wars look like peace missions.
NO MORE WAR CRIMES PROSECUTED,
no one would hold back worrying about killing civillians
EVERYWHERE would be scorched earth like in mosul., iraq

atomic bombs galore.... no peace agreemints REVENGE ONLY!
chemical, biological, nuclear, nano, dna specific, enviornmental,
geological, insect, animal and agrarian weapons .... ANYTHING GOES

no police trying to apprehend and lock you up,
just soldiers executing the criminals, no trial lawyers
TORTURE IS THE NORM AND WIDESPREAD
EVERY COUNTRY doing nazi and japanese type human experimints
i highly doubt we would have made it 1000 years

p.s.. GIRLS will never see daylight EVER AGAIN,,,,
from either being chained to a bed as sex slaves,, or,
HIDDEN IN YOUR BASEMENT so nobody takes them

a reply to: chr0naut

He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”Matt15

My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. ..I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. .. “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me John 10

The nations will see your vindication, and all kings your glory; you will be called by a new name that the mouth of the Lord will bestow.Is62

if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name 1Pet4

I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. Rev3

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.1John2

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.John1

The best known 18th century editions of the New Testament in English are the Rheims (Douai) Edition and the King James Authorized Edition. The Rheims (Douai) translation of the New Testament into English was first printed in 1582 but the word ‘Jew’ did not appear in it.

“The King James Authorized translation of the New Testament into English was begun in 1604 and first published in 1611. The word ‘Jew’ did not appear in it either. The word ‘Jew’ appeared in both these well known editions in their 18th century revised versions for the first times."

originally posted by: Oxidaddio
a reply to: chr0naut

He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”Matt15

My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. ..I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. .. “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me John 10

The nations will see your vindication, and all kings your glory; you will be called by a new name that the mouth of the Lord will bestow.Is62

if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name 1Pet4

I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. Rev3

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.1John2

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.John1

The best known 18th century editions of the New Testament in English are the Rheims (Douai) Edition and the King James Authorized Edition. The Rheims (Douai) translation of the New Testament into English was first printed in 1582 but the word ‘Jew’ did not appear in it.

“The King James Authorized translation of the New Testament into English was begun in 1604 and first published in 1611. The word ‘Jew’ did not appear in it either. The word ‘Jew’ appeared in both these well known editions in their 18th century revised versions for the first times."

The original texts were not written in English. All English language Bibles are translations or transliterations, and reflect the best efforts, opinions, and level of knowledge of the translators.

a reply to: whereislogic

You mean like the thing with the gay frogs?

Or that covid was engineered in a lab?

Or that aliens exist?

Or that the West is hell bent on a new world order and will implement digital currency and social credit rating in order to have complete control over the behavior of the masses?

Or that 911 was an inside job?

Or that all the invasions done by the US was started under false pretenses?

Or the existence of the deep state?

Or that progressive marxists found a home with the democratic party and their ultimate goal as useful idiots is to destroy the US from the inside out?

Or that Epstein didn't kill himself.

Why are there so many narrative cucks on a fringe conspiracy website, that is the real conspiracy.

I bet Jones has a better track record than you do, mistakes and all.

a reply to: FlyersFan

I never said his claims were rubbish, nor did I say they were accurate.

Lol.


Thanks for playing.

a reply to: confuzedcitizen

forget about the religious aspect of it for a moment.....

just what do you think people would be like if....

the 3 billion Christians wouldnt have strived
for peace, love, truth, or justice? for the last 2000 years?
NOBODY giving thought to the 10 commands from GOD

Yknow I don't mind opposing views.


But all I want for Christmas is someone who puts a bit of thought behind their opinions before they start typing.


Is that too much to ask for?

I believe Jesus was conceived in LOVE, and was thusly graced by the Holy Spirit.

That made all the difference.

To Hell with those who call Love Children by the title of Bastard because it doesn't fit their Methodologies and Rituals.

St. Jospeh is the Patron Saint of Families

St. Mary, the Blessed Mother.

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
I believe Jesus was conceived in LOVE, and was thusly graced by the Holy Spirit.

That made all the difference.

To Hell with those who call Love Children by the title of Bastard because it doesn't fit their Methodologies and Rituals.

St. Jospeh is the Patron Saint of Families

St. Mary, the Blessed Mother.

And so the truth about Jesus is a person's individual choice or indoctrination of the truth about Jesus' conception which hinges on the truth about Jesus being the son of God, God itself in a human body, both man and God, or a man born of woman who was viewed by many in different ways.

One thing for sure, we are all to concerned in religious doctrine and words, which take away from the messenger's message and of which the meaning/interpretation is still being debated today. Except for when Jesus delivered his message simply and plainly, such as;

"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. God is to be loved above everything - above all angels, or men, or any created thing. But after God, amongst created things, our neighbor is above all to be loved. And we are to extend to our neighbor that kind of love with which we lov"e ourselves.

What of those who do not love themselves due to mental illness and such?