California officer shoots and kills a 15-year old autistic boy

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Venkuish1
...there is nothing more unreasonable as to have an entire population having complete and unrestricted access to all sorts of weapons and guns

Good thing that's not the case in America.

and a state that has lost the plot when it comes to gun crime and killings of civilians by the security forces.

Good thing that's not the case in America.

The state has lost the plot when it comes to gun violence and killings of civilians by the security forces.

originally posted by: Venkuish1

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Venkuish1
...there is nothing more unreasonable as to have an entire population having complete and unrestricted access to all sorts of weapons and guns

Good thing that's not the case in America.

and a state that has lost the plot when it comes to gun crime and killings of civilians by the security forces.

Good thing that's not the case in America.

The state has lost the plot when it comes to gun violence and killings of civilians by the security forces.

Still riding that horse, are you?

How about. . . umm, I dunno, DON'T ATTACK COPS

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Venkuish1

I have travelled in Europe and in the US and there is no comparison between the way people deal with this issue. In most European countries possession and use apart from unlawful is considered stupid and dangerous. People say to firearms and weapons broadly speaking.

The reality is America is about 70th place for murders in the world per 100,000 and a good chunk is gang-on-gang violence. What is your main point? Guns in general or that Americans are more violent by nature.

Why isn't EU as safe as Japan? What is the problem there?

It seems England can't keep their pecker in their pants with around 260 rapes per 100k, and America is 40 per 100k, so when it comes to violence I guess one needs to pick their poison.

Do you really want to compare Europe to the US in terms of gun possession and use? I mean in terms of injuries and killings using firearms and weapons by both citizens and the security forces. In Europe the vast majority of people don't possess or use guns and the police is very unlikely to shoot and kill. In some countries the police is not even armed. Shoot and kill is the last resort there. In the US is the first course of action and there are countless of people who have been killed and were unarmed. The problem in the US is endemic and quite serious. What is happening in the US is unthinkable in most of the western world.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Venkuish1

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Venkuish1
...there is nothing more unreasonable as to have an entire population having complete and unrestricted access to all sorts of weapons and guns

Good thing that's not the case in America.

and a state that has lost the plot when it comes to gun crime and killings of civilians by the security forces.

Good thing that's not the case in America.

The state has lost the plot when it comes to gun violence and killings of civilians by the security forces.

Still riding that horse, are you?

How about. . . umm, I dunno, DON'T ATTACK COPS

Attacking a cop elsewhere in the world doesn't necessarily result in killing the attacker. The cops can handle it much better by not killing the individual and can use all sorts of methods like tasers or even shoot at his/her legs. It's myopic if you can't see the problem (which is huge anyway).

originally posted by: Venkuish1

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Venkuish1

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Venkuish1
...there is nothing more unreasonable as to have an entire population having complete and unrestricted access to all sorts of weapons and guns

Good thing that's not the case in America.

and a state that has lost the plot when it comes to gun crime and killings of civilians by the security forces.

Good thing that's not the case in America.

The state has lost the plot when it comes to gun violence and killings of civilians by the security forces.

Still riding that horse, are you?

How about. . . umm, I dunno, DON'T ATTACK COPS

You may want to about the issue but attacking a cop elsewhere in the world doesn't necessarily result in killing the attacker. The cops van handle it much better by not killing the individual and can use all sorts of methods like tasers or even shoot at his/her legs. It's myopic if you can't see the problem (which is huge anyway).

Are you a cops?

Are you speaking from experience as a cop?

No.

You're a Kevin or a Karen.

Do you know how to do brain surgery?

Do you second-guess doctors as well?

Lemme guess, you have a high IQ and probably drive a cool truck for the babes.

The main causes are far lower entry standards and training duration in the US compared to EU countries. EU policing is five to 10 times longer than US training and main emphasis is on months of de-escalation training which is barely covered in the US.

Armed officers are generally specialist units that recieve 1000s of additional training hours and regulary updated and reviewed so annual deaths from police shootings can be counted on one hand.

originally posted by: bastion
The main causes are far lower entry standards and training duration in the US compared to EU countries. EU policing is five to 10 times longer than US training and main emphasis is on months of de-escalation training which is barely covered in the US.

Armed officers are generally specialist units that recieve 1000s of additional training hours and regulary updated and reviewed so annual deaths from police shootings can be counted on one hand.

That and not too many attack cops

originally posted by: Venkuish1

originally posted by: Dandandat3

originally posted by: Venkuish1

Never said nothing like this happened abroad but rather than this practise is mainly observed in the US.

No. What you said was:

You don't get anything remotely similar in Germany, France, the UK, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, New Zealand, name whatever country you want.

Which is it?

Perhaps you misunderstood my post. I said you never get anything similar in terms of the frequency of these events and the way the police is trained abroad with reference to European countries.

These incidents are rare in Europe and either the cops age not armed and when they are they don't usually shoot to kill. When they have to it's the last resort.

Do you see where the problem is?

You are only adding the word "frequency" now that your original statement was shown to be wrong.

In my examples (chosen at random amongst many google search results) the police officers were all armed when confronted by assailants wielding sharp weapons and they all shot the assailant rather than become victims themselves.

So yes I do see the problem; Don't attack police officers in Europe or the US with sharp weapons or you may be shoot.

Seems pretty simple to me ... unless you have an agenda I guess.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Shoshanna
I dont know where he shot him probably should have shot him in the leg

Damn, that is a stupid answer...lol

Let me run at you full speed and let's see if you can shoot me in the leg. Long story short....you are dead...

Well I shoot a lot and hunt and I can hit a moving target pretty easily so im not sure what you're saying. Do you not have much firearm experience?

originally posted by: Shoshanna

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Shoshanna
I dont know where he shot him probably should have shot him in the leg

Damn, that is a stupid answer...lol

Let me run at you full speed and let's see if you can shoot me in the leg. Long story short....you are dead...

Well I shoot a lot and hunt and I can hit a moving target pretty easily so im not sure what you're saying. Do you not have much firearm experience?

You should get a job training cops, because no one is that good.

I guess you are.

originally posted by: Dandandat3

originally posted by: Venkuish1

originally posted by: Dandandat3

originally posted by: Venkuish1

Never said nothing like this happened abroad but rather than this practise is mainly observed in the US.

No. What you said was:

You don't get anything remotely similar in Germany, France, the UK, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, New Zealand, name whatever country you want.

Which is it?

Perhaps you misunderstood my post. I said you never get anything similar in terms of the frequency of these events and the way the police is trained abroad with reference to European countries.

These incidents are rare in Europe and either the cops age not armed and when they are they don't usually shoot to kill. When they have to it's the last resort.

Do you see where the problem is?

You are only adding the word "frequency" now that your original statement was shown to be wrong.

In my examples (chosen at random amongst many google search results) the police officers were all armed when confronted by assailants wielding sharp weapons and they all shot the assailant rather than become victims themselves.

So yes I do see the problem; Don't attack police officers in Europe or the US with sharp weapons or you may be shoot.

Seems pretty simple to me ... unless you have an agenda I guess.

:

No. You have misunderstood my post and it's only you who have brought it up. So nothing remotely similar refers to the way police acts in Europe and the US and the culture differences that result in this chaos in the US.

And what I said it's still true. Nothing in comparison between the US and Europe which doesn't mean the police cannot shoot and kill in European countries but these events are rare.

a reply to: Venkuish1

I guess the solution is for you to move to Europe.

Bai

a reply to: Venkuish1
There is no problem. Two thirds of all us gun deaths are suicides. European urban centers have just as high a frequency of violent crime as America. The cultural difference is that Europeans have been conditioned that they have to just accept being a victim of violent crime . Ffs you cannot even defend yourself with lethal force against an armed assailant without being subject to an inquiry about excessive force with threat of jail time. So European civilians just try to keep their head down and hope this day is not their day in a society who's governments treat criminals like the victim when they are defended against.

Any person being violently assaulted by an armed individual has the right to self defense with lethal force. Your essentially asking innocent people and police to consider the well being of an armed violent assailant.

An armed violent assailant is not a civilian, they are a criminal or terrorist and deserve zero consideration during the course of their attack . Mental illness or autism are not to be excuses for violent behavior or the consequences of defending against such.

a reply to: Venkuish1

If you took the top 15 EU members you get roughly the same number of people as US. And if you do that you will see the same stats vs police shootings homicides etc. Your skewing results because you have a belief and trying to prove it. There are some cultural differences such as people trying to kill police with a crossbow. But the violence overall is still the same.

originally posted by: Shoshanna

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Shoshanna
I dont know where he shot him probably should have shot him in the leg

Damn, that is a stupid answer...lol

Let me run at you full speed and let's see if you can shoot me in the leg. Long story short....you are dead...

Well I shoot a lot and hunt and I can hit a moving target pretty easily so im not sure what you're saying. Do you not have much firearm experience?

Xbox or Playstation doesn't count so I'm doubting you have any combat experience. It is difficult to hit a running target when you only have seconds before they cut your throat. Trust me I've seen police officers that just got lucky hitting someone before they managed to stab them. Seen times they lost and ended up dead.

Reality often changes a situation its not like movies where you hit them and they fall backwards like a target. They can end up taking several slugs all the while running at you with a knife. The only thing you can hope for is you hit something vital before they make it to you.

a reply to: bastion

So you basically have unarmed social workers...kind of like they are trying to implement here in the US in some our more vapid blue cities/states.

a reply to: Shoshanna

I have a lot of firearms experience. Hunting and target shooting are a stress relief. The game is changed when someone is coming at you, quickly closing distance with a deadly weapon. Unless you actively train with weapons in self defense situations then you have no idea how you would act. Fight or flight. Most people I know who shoot and think they are good with a pistol aren't at all good....that under no stress target practice. But words are easy to type and say.

originally posted by: Asher47
a reply to: bastion

So you basically have unarmed social workers...kind of like they are trying to implement here in the US in some our more vapid blue cities/states.

The idea of armed citizens and armed police is not popular elsewhere. It's actually unthinkable that people are armed and carry with them weapons and guns. There is a very strong correlation between possession and use of guns and weapons of all kinds and injuries/ deaths caused by them.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Venkuish1

If you took the top 15 EU members you get roughly the same number of people as US. And if you do that you will see the same stats vs police shootings homicides etc. Your skewing results because you have a belief and trying to prove it. There are some cultural differences such as people trying to kill police with a crossbow. But the violence overall is still the same.

It's very difficult to find many cases where the police shoots and kills people so easily and often for no reason at all. Same can be said about gun crime as possession and use of guns is illegal in most if not all European countries. When citizens are not armed and when police is not armed or when using lethal force is the last resort, then you will see much less incidents in comparison to the US.

a reply to: Venkuish1
So how do they defend themselves against the rapists and thugs? The illegals from the middle east that are perverting your daily way of life? Something sounds off here. I've been to the UK I saw something in front of most of the pubs in London I haven't seen often in the US...blood stains in the sidewalks. Not sure if that is endemic to the rest of Europe but I sure hope not.