JUST IN - U.S. is tracking an unidentified high-altitude balloon

a reply to: putnam6

We should not automatically assume that the one finally shot down was the first of these attacks or that it was harmless (as we have been told).

For all we know, the Chinese made earlier attempts to decimate America with COVID and a balloon failed and spread the disease among their own country which proved to be more deadly than in America. Think about it: Surely, they would have tested their concoction on their own people before they resorted to hitting the US with it.

Since we waited until the balloon was out over the Atlantic Ocean, maybe it was carrying a biological pathogen and why we waited to bring it down in a safe place?

originally posted by: watchitburn
It's fine folks.

Lol X 1,000,000

Thread done.

originally posted by: CataclysmicRockets

originally posted by: Boomer1947

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: Mantiss2021

originally posted by: Boomer1947
a reply to: pianopraze


It seems to be made of Mylar, which means it floats at a relatively constant altitude (43 to 45 thousand feet). That means it's not maneuverable by catching winds going different directions at different altitudes.

The payload is a roughly 2 ft cube. Probably a cheap styrofoam picnic chest; that's what most balloon hobbyists use.

It probably belongs to a private balloon hobbyist group.

IMHO

Thank you for injecting some sanity into this thread.


If this balloon is flying at 40-45, 000FT, it is probably traveling at around 200MPH, give or take. That means that it most likely has not been aloft for a long time; certainly not long enough to have originated from across the Pacific, I'm guessing. And since it does not appear to be maneuverable, it is highly unlikely to be any kind of ISR device, at least not in the military sense.

If you can't control, or predict, where your "snooper" is going to go, you can't expect it to see the things you want to spy on.


I swear, the majority of folks.......


ETA:


If this balloon is small, slow, and flying low, it is probably very difficult to track using radar. Cardboard, foam board, balsa wood, carbon fiber, glue and tape, the materials I used to use years ago when I built high-altitude balloons, do not show up well on radar. We had to employ radio transponders in our vehicles to track them.

Now, unless you set the sensitivity of your radar systems to maximum, something like this little thing is going to be overlooked most of the time.

Along with the birds it will look like on the scopes.

It's not sanity, just more ignorance from one of your com mie teammates. Because it's ILLEGAL to operate any "hobby" balloons below 60,000 feet per FAA rules. I would bet neither of you would even know the reasons why or care.

I've personally flown 3 different high altitude balloons during my career as a NASA aerospace engineer.

The relevant Federal Aviation Regulation (FAR) is part 101.

Here is a summary of the applicable rules and regulations that apply:

If the weight-to-size ratio of the payload is greater than 3.0 ounces/square inch (total weight of the payload divided by its smallest face), then the total payload weight must be less than 4 pounds.

Any individual payload/package must be less than 6 pounds.

Total payload of two or more packages carried by one balloon must be less than 12 pounds total.

The balloon cannot use a rope or other device for suspension of the payload that requires an impact force of more than 50 pounds to separate the suspended payload from the balloon.

No person may operate any balloon in a manner that creates a hazard to other persons, or their property.

No person operating any balloon may allow an object to be dropped therefrom, if such action creates a hazard to other persons or their property.

No person may operate any unmanned free balloon in a manner that creates a hazard to other persons, or their property.

No person operating any unmanned free balloon may allow an object to be dropped therefrom, if such action creates a hazard to other persons or their property.

If any of the above regulations from Part 101.1 are not met (e.g. payload is heavier than 6 lbs.), then FAA Regulation Part 101 Subpart D applies.

As long as the above criteria in #2-5 above are met, no prior notification to the FAA is required.

Those requirements on weight, payload density, and rope breaking strength are set on the basis of how much damage could be done if an airplane ran into it. Basically, air transport aircraft are designed to be able to survive birdstrikes and these payloads are set such that they are less dense than an average bird.

If you know the size and altitude of the balloon then you know how much it can lift. If you can count to two, then you know if each payload weighs more than 6 pounds. I'm sure the Air Force pilot who flew up and looked at the balloon was able to execute this difficult task. That's probably how they were able to determine that it doesn't pose a risk to anyone on the ground.

Got a real citation for this besides this copy pasta you always seem to come up with? With all due regards and respect you are in violation of ATS posting and should put this junk in a link to the external site you copy pasta it from.

Did the legwork for ya. Here's the source you left out.

That's plagiarism pal.
Link to original text

Whoa, our own President Gay ?

originally posted by: Mantiss2021
a reply to: CataclysmicRockets

I cited the same FAA regulation section (section 101) in a previous post; answering the assertion that it was illegal to fly a balloon below 60,000ft; specificallysection 101.33(c).

Boomer provided a Summary of the entire section 101 for the sake of clarification, apparently. And, given the misconceptions, assumptions, and political game-playing that seems to be infecting this thread, such clarification is most appreciated....at least by those who wish to remain on topic.

Awwww, our own little plagiarist apologist recidivist.

How sweet.

originally posted by: CosmicFocus
a reply to: putnam6

We should not automatically assume that the one finally shot down was the first of these attacks or that it was harmless (as we have been told).

For all we know, the Chinese made earlier attempts to decimate America with COVID and a balloon failed and spread the disease among their own country which proved to be more deadly than in America. Think about it: Surely, they would have tested their concoction on their own people before they resorted to hitting the US with it.

Since we waited until the balloon was out over the Atlantic Ocean, maybe it was carrying a biological pathogen and why we waited to bring it down in a safe place?

Dude, this is still ATS isn't it, it was the last time I checked, we trust no one, and certainly questioning the government thats our DEFAULT mode.

Doesn't mean Im paranoid, scared, or worried, just aware of how governments are.

For instance, the IDF can track, target, and shoot down thousands of incoming missiles.

While we are supposed to believe after last year China spy balloon caper our DOD still has no effective answer, except we got to fly up there and take a looksee?

That said there are several reasons the spreading COVID or any other "virus" from an uncontrollable high-altitude balloon would be incredibly difficult to do.

In my Saturday morning mind, it still feels like whoever is probing to check our defenses. Im hoping the government is tight-lipped for a reason as to not give away our secrets, but you never know.

but yes hopefully somebody somewhere knows what is up, especially if it isn't some domestic weather balloon experiment.

It looks like it took them 24 hours to figure out if true... what happens if someone decides to release dozens of small weather balloons?



x.com...

OSINTdefender
@sentdefender
·
18m
U.S. Defense Officials now believe that Unidentified High-Altitude Balloon which was Detected yesterday over Colorado, causing several Fighter Jets to be Scrambled, was actually just a Hobbyist Weather Balloon.

a reply to: putnam6

Just curious.


How do you think "the DOD" is able to track a balloon? Have you given it any thought?


Balloons are typically made from materials that do not reflect radar (microwave) signals. Unless the balloon envelope has been covered, as in the case of many Mylar Balloons, with a metallic coating, radar signals will mostly just pass right through with no return. Similarly, carbon fiber, paper cardboard, plastic, etc. all have very low to no existent radar profiles. These are the materials most commonly used in research balloons; especially armature and hobbyist Balloons.


The typical research balloon, on whole, has about the same radar return signal as a large cloud, or a small flock of birds. That's why regulations require balloons meeting certain parameters to carry radar reflectors. As stated in FAA section 101.

That's a lot of aerial "clutter" you are expecting our defense forces to search through, and waste time and resources on.


Unfortunately, the best solution is to, yes, go up and have an "eyes on" look see.

a reply to: pianopraze

How many threats above us are we not told about?

Only a matter of time before modified fentanyl granules are released from one of these and rains down on a population center.

originally posted by: Mantiss2021
a reply to: putnam6

Just curious.


How do you think "the DOD" is able to track a balloon? Have you given it any thought?


Balloons are typically made from materials that do not reflect radar (microwave) signals. Unless the balloon envelope has been covered, as in the case of many Mylar Balloons, with a metallic coating, radar signals will mostly just pass right through with no return. Similarly, carbon fiber, paper cardboard, plastic, etc. all have very low to no existent radar profiles. These are the materials most commonly used in research balloons; especially armature and hobbyist Balloons.


The typical research balloon, on whole, has about the same radar return signal as a large cloud, or a small flock of birds. That's why regulations require balloons meeting certain parameters to carry radar reflectors. As stated in FAA section 101.

That's a lot of aerial "clutter" you are expecting our defense forces to search through, and waste time and resources on.


Unfortunately, the best solution is to, yes, go up and have an "eyes on" look see.

Just discussing this Mantis, and BTW let's not forget our pilots flew up on 2 targets last year and couldn't readily identify them according to the official story.

Well aware it's a small radar target, and also aware that there are plenty of hobbyists weather ballooners out there. Hell all of this was in last years threads.

Also aware the Chinese balloon was huge and while they say they tracked it from the Pacific it took days before they found out what it was.We just have to take them for their word, just like we do on the other "balloons" shot down in Alaska and the Great Lakes.

Also, I can't remember balloons being spotted much at all till the last 2 years, Im sure it's happened but just don't recall. Regardless virtually no balloons were sighted till 3 last year and one this year. Just sheer luck LOL did our eyesight get better? Let's remember they wouldn't have said squat about the CHINESE balloon till it was spotted by the public.

As for wasting resources, we got a guy watching on the radar then we are gonna send up a fighter jet? Certainly, this radar expert should be able to tell from the radar cross section it's too small to worry about.

Yet we send up a fighter jet which costs $26,000 plus an hour to fly.

Estimates say any given day 92 weather balloons are launched across the US, so we are supposed to believe all of those are recognizable on radar as balloons? or does the Air Force send up a fighter 30-40 times a day to check?

Respectfully how do they determine which ones to go check on when they pop up on radar?

abcnews.go.com... › Politics › weather-balloons-hundreds-turns › story?id=97082985

ieeexplore.ieee.org...

This is from the 90s FWIW

An approach to radar target identification that uses a modified nearest neighbor algorithm and relative amplitude target features is proposed. It assumes that the aspect angles (elevation and azimuth) of the target to be identified are unknown. The relative amplitude features are the ratios of the target amplitude returns of two different frequencies, and they are two-dimensional functions of the target aspect angles. The features are also related to target geometry, wave polarization, and frequency, but are independent of target range and other radar system parameters. The database contains a finite number of samples of reference target features taken at certain target aspect angles. The differences between the aspect angles of the unknown target and those of the samples, called the aspect offsets, cause identification error. An unknown target is considered identified if its nearest neighbor in the feature space is in the set of feature samples from the same reference target in the database. A computer simulation was conducted to determine the misidentification percentage, due to the aspect offsets, as a function of the aspect angle sampling intervals and the number of frequencies, based on amplitude returns from multiple point scatters.< >

99 Red Ballons.

a reply to: putnam6

Not sure what is the reason for the image of a hanging, but your following words are twice vastly mistaken, you have my permission to grant yourself a picture of the hanging also if that was supposed to mean something.

"That said there are several reasons the spreading COVID or any other "virus" from an uncontrollable high-altitude balloon would be incredibly difficult to do."

a reply to: putnam6

Weelll, according to my source, an old colleague from decades back who currently heads both a LAV development program and a non-profit educational high-altitude balloon research program;


One of the two balloons you referenced from last year was a Canadian commercial research balloon, and the other was a radio hobbyist balloon. Both had flight plans filed with proper authorities, and both were fully identified before being shot down.



His theory: We're seeing more of these incidents because the public is "looking more" for these incidents. It's a form of "confirmation bias", like how you can start noticing more red cars once you take notice of a red car; it is not that red cars suddenly start multiplying, it's just that your confirmation bias has made you more aware of the red cars that were always there to begin with.

And the government has make a show of responding to the public's increased awareness, expressed as "concern", fear, and paranoid delusion, or be criticized as ineffective, unresponsive, and/or engaging in some sort of malicious cover-up.

And then, if you send up a fighter jet to deal with what turns out to be a "Batman" party balloon....How are you going to justify the thousands of dollars you just wasted to assuage the wild fears of some soccer mom?


Damned if you do, damned if you don't!

originally posted by: Mantiss2021
a reply to: putnam6

Weelll, according to my source, an old colleague from decades back who currently heads both a LAV development program and a non-profit educational high-altitude balloon research program;


One of the two balloons you referenced from last year was a Canadian commercial research balloon, and the other was a radio hobbyist balloon. Both had flight plans filed with proper authorities, and both were fully identified before being shot down.




His theory: We're seeing more of these incidents because the public is "looking more" for these incidents. It's a form of "confirmation bias", like how you can start noticing more red cars once you take notice of a red car; it is not that red cars suddenly start multiplying, it's just that your confirmation bias has made you more aware of the red cars that were always there to begin with.

And the government has make a show of responding to the public's increased awareness, expressed as "concern", fear, and paranoid delusion, or be criticized as ineffective, unresponsive, and/or engaging in some sort of malicious cover-up.

And then, if you send up a fighter jet to deal with what turns out to be a "Batman" party balloon....How are you going to justify the thousands of dollars you just wasted to assuage the wild fears of some soccer mom?


Damned if you do, damned if you don't!

You keep defending a criminally incompetent current government as if you are one of them, or just fancy yourself as "One of the team" A sycophant of the most hideous liars and fools the world has likely ever seen. "The government make a show of responding to the public's increased awareness". Right, because they are here to help as Ronald Reagan used to say.

And boy have they really helped everyone lately.

You are so out of touch with reality it's becoming nauseating.

I say just shoot all down if they're not ours

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

On every new thread that boomer guy comes In to deny and support the left. I wonder if he's a fed or just a sour dude

A huge cell service outage blamed on DNS and then an amateur weather balloon? My what wild times we live in.

a reply to: visitedbythem
Probably a new delivery from whuhan, I say return the sender

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
a reply to: Boomer1947

What does you having flown some balloons matter to anyone here anyways?

It means I know the significance of the 60,000 ft altitude level.


This just in:


Unidentified balloon belongs to amateur balloonist: US official

Sat, February 24, 2024, 11:49 AM PST·

"The high-altitude balloon flying over the western U.S. is the property of an amateur balloonist, a U.S. official told NBC News Saturday."

One WOULD tend to believe so, ey ... however ... the oposite is evidenced here in South Africa and all I can attribute it to is years and years of ... essentially boiling the toad in a pot ... at first they are oblivious and then they just too numbed to do anything about it.
a reply to: Justoneman