JUST IN - U.S. is tracking an unidentified high-altitude balloon

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: Kaiju666
Tracking it? lol someone needs to just pop it.

They aren't going to do that, officially the DOD is saying it's no threat to the public or air travel.

I'm betting if a US citizen owned the balloon, a balloon of some kind flying at 45k feet over Colorado, the FAA would send the Sheriff to their home and cite them, or arrest even and the news would report it as a very big threat to air travel. Big fine, and the poor sap's name plastered all over the news.

So the DoD is full of BS as per usual knowing the current political climate, and what happened last time when all those balloons got shot down.

Yes probably and not implying the DOD is truthful, but the haphazard response to the last situation has likely affected what and how they report today's incident.

FWIW this is slightly different it seems smaller as the China balloon was larger and obviously under some form of control not even sure what was shot down over Alaska but it certainly wasn't a normal balloon either.

They know the size of the balloon. They know the altitude it is flying, so they also know the speed and course it has, and will fly, unless it changes altitude (and thus course and speed). They know that it is not maneuverable, so they know that it cannot change its course beyond altitude-dependent wind direction.

Given all this information, it should be a simple matter to track back to its most likely origin.

Furthermore, it is most likely that this launch was permitted by the FAA. I am willing to bet nobody has looked up the flight permits.


BTW: Word from an expert source from within the industry is that the so-called "Chinese Spy Balloon" flight was actually a commercial research platform which had been registered with the FAA prior to launch. This detail was not released to the public, for reasons.

Most likely there's a bunch of government employees of the psyche ops division laughing at everyone right now.
Someone won a bet, they could make the nation become paranoid about a ballon by turning off their cell phone for a few hours, then running news run stories with ominous music and have a serious looking person from the military issue a generic statement".

Couldn't a plane just loop a string or net around it and tow it off to the ocean?

But it is interesting a few days after the ballon was shot down in 2023, T-Mobile had a huge cell outage.
We really can't go by what we know exists. It might be some novel nano particle that they can control with satellite?

A balloon which can be spotted from the ground at 45000 feet, and is newsworthy, would need to be at least 100 feet in diameter, I think. That would make it appear, in angles, about a quarter of the size of the Moon.

Just throwing some numbers out, to see if anything sticks. I haven’t seen any footage yet or reports of size.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: Mantiss2021

originally posted by: Boomer1947
a reply to: pianopraze


It seems to be made of Mylar, which means it floats at a relatively constant altitude (43 to 45 thousand feet). That means it's not maneuverable by catching winds going different directions at different altitudes.

The payload is a roughly 2 ft cube. Probably a cheap styrofoam picnic chest; that's what most balloon hobbyists use.

It probably belongs to a private balloon hobbyist group.

IMHO

Thank you for injecting some sanity into this thread.


If this balloon is flying at 40-45, 000FT, it is probably traveling at around 200MPH, give or take. That means that it most likely has not been aloft for a long time; certainly not long enough to have originated from across the Pacific, I'm guessing. And since it does not appear to be maneuverable, it is highly unlikely to be any kind of ISR device, at least not in the military sense.

If you can't control, or predict, where your "snooper" is going to go, you can't expect it to see the things you want to spy on.


I swear, the majority of folks.......


ETA:


If this balloon is small, slow, and flying low, it is probably very difficult to track using radar. Cardboard, foam board, balsa wood, carbon fiber, glue and tape, the materials I used to use years ago when I built high-altitude balloons, do not show up well on radar. We had to employ radio transponders in our vehicles to track them.

Now, unless you set the sensitivity of your radar systems to maximum, something like this little thing is going to be overlooked most of the time.

Along with the birds it will look like on the scopes.

It's not sanity, just more ignorance from one of your com mie teammates. Because it's ILLEGAL to operate any "hobby" balloons below 60,000 feet per FAA rules. I would bet neither of you would even know the reasons why or care.

I've personally flown 3 different high altitude balloons during my career as a NASA aerospace engineer.

The relevant Federal Aviation Regulation (FAR) is part 101.

Here is a summary of the applicable rules and regulations that apply:

If the weight-to-size ratio of the payload is greater than 3.0 ounces/square inch (total weight of the payload divided by its smallest face), then the total payload weight must be less than 4 pounds.

Any individual payload/package must be less than 6 pounds.

Total payload of two or more packages carried by one balloon must be less than 12 pounds total.

The balloon cannot use a rope or other device for suspension of the payload that requires an impact force of more than 50 pounds to separate the suspended payload from the balloon.

No person may operate any balloon in a manner that creates a hazard to other persons, or their property.

No person operating any balloon may allow an object to be dropped therefrom, if such action creates a hazard to other persons or their property.

No person may operate any unmanned free balloon in a manner that creates a hazard to other persons, or their property.

No person operating any unmanned free balloon may allow an object to be dropped therefrom, if such action creates a hazard to other persons or their property.

If any of the above regulations from Part 101.1 are not met (e.g. payload is heavier than 6 lbs.), then FAA Regulation Part 101 Subpart D applies.

As long as the above criteria in #2-5 above are met, no prior notification to the FAA is required.

Those requirements on weight, payload density, and rope breaking strength are set on the basis of how much damage could be done if an airplane ran into it. Basically, air transport aircraft are designed to be able to survive birdstrikes and these payloads are set such that they are less dense than an average bird.

If you know the size and altitude of the balloon then you know how much it can lift. If you can count to two, then you know if each payload weighs more than 6 pounds. I'm sure the Air Force pilot who flew up and looked at the balloon was able to execute this difficult task. That's probably how they were able to determine that it doesn't pose a risk to anyone on the ground.

a reply to: ByeByeAmericanPie

These Balloons are Violating U.S. Airspace , an Act of War . The Law is Clear on this . Why the U.S. Military and the President are Allowing this is Grounds for a Serious Court of Inquiry and an Explanation to the America People .

originally posted by: Daughter2v2
Most likely there's a bunch of government employees of the psyche ops division laughing at everyone right now.
Someone won a bet, they could make the nation become paranoid about a ballon by turning off their cell phone for a few hours, then running news run stories with ominous music and have a serious looking person from the military issue a generic statement".

Couldn't a plane just loop a string or net around it and tow it off to the ocean?

But it is interesting a few days after the ballon was shot down in 2023, T-Mobile had a huge cell outage.
We really can't go by what we know exists. It might be some novel nano particle that they can control with satellite?

I could have sworn I read somewhere where they used to capture parachutes dropped with canisters of film from

a reply to: Boomer1947

None of those rules matter at all if it's done by someone who could care less about FAA regulations. That's the whole point.

Deflect away some more. Next you will say you are also an astronaut.

What does you having flown some balloons matter to anyone here anyways? IS this about you now?
This thread is about a current unidentified balloon which would be identified before it started if NASA was flying it. Your reply has nothing to do with this current situation.

a reply to: Boomer1947

The team I was on flew high altitude balloon arrays as part of a rockoon-based attempt to launch the first "private" space launch back in the 1990's

Some of our team members helped the FAA devise and write the regulations that allowed SpaceX to "get of the ground".


It's nice hear from a fellow "balloon-naut"!

a reply to: Boomer1947

So you have added NASA aerospace engineer to your resume.

Awesome!

Was this after you were an astronaut but before you were a President?

In between when you were a lawyer?

This should be a conspiracy theory all its own...

Are you Howard Hughes returning?

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: Boomer1947

So you have added NASA aerospace engineer to your resume.

Awesome!

Was this after you were an astronaut but before you were a President?

In between when you were a lawyer?

This should be a conspiracy theory all its own...

Are you Howard Hughes returning?

Mmmmm yes, when I was on that multi-disciplinary team that flew balloons to the moons of Mars, we had so many wiki PhD’s that we could do everything with nothing forever.
We were also trained in the martial art of writing 1000 word essays that would make everything a conservative ever said, disappear in a puff of smoke.
But of course that was 47 careers ago.
I’ve been retired a few times, but they always call me back to active duty whenever a threatening thread is detected on ATS.

GOP told Biden to declassify the info on this threat from above, but he refuses to do so. Our President is compromised. If he were Republican, his own party would have removed him from office. Democrats are not pro-life, so they don't much care what dangers Biden brings.

a reply to: Lumenari

Jump in and make comments that have nothing to do with anything just because of ones users political views rather than the content of the post?

originally posted by: Boomer1947

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: Mantiss2021

originally posted by: Boomer1947
a reply to: pianopraze


It seems to be made of Mylar, which means it floats at a relatively constant altitude (43 to 45 thousand feet). That means it's not maneuverable by catching winds going different directions at different altitudes.

The payload is a roughly 2 ft cube. Probably a cheap styrofoam picnic chest; that's what most balloon hobbyists use.

It probably belongs to a private balloon hobbyist group.

IMHO

Thank you for injecting some sanity into this thread.


If this balloon is flying at 40-45, 000FT, it is probably traveling at around 200MPH, give or take. That means that it most likely has not been aloft for a long time; certainly not long enough to have originated from across the Pacific, I'm guessing. And since it does not appear to be maneuverable, it is highly unlikely to be any kind of ISR device, at least not in the military sense.

If you can't control, or predict, where your "snooper" is going to go, you can't expect it to see the things you want to spy on.


I swear, the majority of folks.......


ETA:


If this balloon is small, slow, and flying low, it is probably very difficult to track using radar. Cardboard, foam board, balsa wood, carbon fiber, glue and tape, the materials I used to use years ago when I built high-altitude balloons, do not show up well on radar. We had to employ radio transponders in our vehicles to track them.

Now, unless you set the sensitivity of your radar systems to maximum, something like this little thing is going to be overlooked most of the time.

Along with the birds it will look like on the scopes.

It's not sanity, just more ignorance from one of your com mie teammates. Because it's ILLEGAL to operate any "hobby" balloons below 60,000 feet per FAA rules. I would bet neither of you would even know the reasons why or care.

I've personally flown 3 different high altitude balloons during my career as a NASA aerospace engineer.

The relevant Federal Aviation Regulation (FAR) is part 101.

Here is a summary of the applicable rules and regulations that apply:

If the weight-to-size ratio of the payload is greater than 3.0 ounces/square inch (total weight of the payload divided by its smallest face), then the total payload weight must be less than 4 pounds.

Any individual payload/package must be less than 6 pounds.

Total payload of two or more packages carried by one balloon must be less than 12 pounds total.

The balloon cannot use a rope or other device for suspension of the payload that requires an impact force of more than 50 pounds to separate the suspended payload from the balloon.

No person may operate any balloon in a manner that creates a hazard to other persons, or their property.

No person operating any balloon may allow an object to be dropped therefrom, if such action creates a hazard to other persons or their property.

No person may operate any unmanned free balloon in a manner that creates a hazard to other persons, or their property.

No person operating any unmanned free balloon may allow an object to be dropped therefrom, if such action creates a hazard to other persons or their property.

If any of the above regulations from Part 101.1 are not met (e.g. payload is heavier than 6 lbs.), then FAA Regulation Part 101 Subpart D applies.

As long as the above criteria in #2-5 above are met, no prior notification to the FAA is required.

Those requirements on weight, payload density, and rope breaking strength are set on the basis of how much damage could be done if an airplane ran into it. Basically, air transport aircraft are designed to be able to survive birdstrikes and these payloads are set such that they are less dense than an average bird.

If you know the size and altitude of the balloon then you know how much it can lift. If you can count to two, then you know if each payload weighs more than 6 pounds. I'm sure the Air Force pilot who flew up and looked at the balloon was able to execute this difficult task. That's probably how they were able to determine that it doesn't pose a risk to anyone on the ground.

Got a real citation for this besides this copy pasta you always seem to come up with? With all due regards and respect you are in violation of ATS posting and should put this junk in a link to the external site you copy pasta it from.

Did the legwork for ya. Here's the source you left out.

That's plagiarism pal.
Link to original text

a reply to: CataclysmicRockets

I cited the same FAA regulation section (section 101) in a previous post; answering the assertion that it was illegal to fly a balloon below 60,000ft; specificallysection 101.33(c).

Boomer provided a Summary of the entire section 101 for the sake of clarification, apparently. And, given the misconceptions, assumptions, and political game-playing that seems to be infecting this thread, such clarification is most appreciated....at least by those who wish to remain on topic.

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: Boomer1947

So you have added NASA aerospace engineer to your resume.

Awesome!

Was this after you were an astronaut but before you were a President?

In between when you were a lawyer?

This should be a conspiracy theory all its own...

Are you Howard Hughes returning?

I'm not saying we never landed on the moon.

....but that gives me the impression that we never landed on the moon.

Oh my goodness, the lengths they will go to to down an advertisement balloon saying "vote for Trump". Those pesky MAGA people.

It's fine folks.

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Well they must be outgunned or spooked this time, cuz they ain’t shooting it, and keep reiterating it’s no threat. Btw, finally heard a report saying this balloon is about 50 feet tall, and probably over the Atlantic now.

Near-peer advarsaries not even using advanced tech to yank our chain anymore? Back in the day we got collectively wound up over "real threats" now it's "oh noes!!! a balloon!!!"
Pitiful.