Latest On Sunday's Joel Osteen Megachurch Mass Shooter

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: chr0naut

WELLINGTON, New Zealand (AP) — New Zealand’s government said Tuesday it will expand a vaccine mandate to include thousands of workers who have close contact with their customers — including employees at restaurants, bars, gyms and hair salons.

The changes will mean that about 40% of all New Zealand workers will need to get fully vaccinated against the coronavirus or risk losing their jobs, up from about 15% previously.

Speaking with reporters, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said she didn’t believe the new rules were an overreach of government power.

Derp......

Just like with the American President, our leaders can't just say something and it becomes law.

The linked AP article is written as if the Prime Minister's comments were immediately implemented, but, as it transpired, they weren't.

6 days after this comment was made, the decision was made that mandates and vaccine passports would not have been an effective or timely enough response to the evolving situation, and instead the government had agreed to and implemented phase 2 of alert level three in the Waikato region which was experiencing an outbreak.

The phases and alert levels had been pre-approved by parliament months previously, and were set to be triggered by particular threshold events. At the stage of the implementation of the level 3 protocols, a new 'traffic light system' was also being discussed. The traffic light system was implemented a month later and superseded the alert levels protocols.

This level of pre-planned response and the timely implementation actions was significantly different than the after-the-fact reactiveness seen overseas.

So, as previously stated. Vaccine mandates for the general public of NZ, never happened.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: chr0naut

If their purpose in buying a firearm is to commit a crime, that in itself makes them a criminal.....not really hard to understand

Not sure where you are assuming that I said someone buying a gun makes them a criminal, you need to work on your comprehension skills.

You are completely ignoring those who purchase firearms legally, and with no intention to commit a crime, but who later use those firearms in commission of a crime, like in a fit of passion, or in desperation about changed circumstances.

It's like your entire mental paradigm set is that that there is a type of person who is criminal from the birth, and it informs your every conception. That isn't how crime happens.

Again, we have been over this time and time again in many other threads on guns. Someone can LIE on a their background check form and acquire a firearm. That act alone is a felony, along with anything else they do with said firearm being a crime.

Actually, it does exclude them, if you are a convicted felon, you are legally bared from ever owning a firearm again. But I wouldn't expect someone who lives halfway around the world to understand that simple concept. Pretty sure the only thing around here that is being imagined is your understanding of how firearms in the US work.

I do totally understand that, but I don't also don't believe that people break the law because they are innately criminal.

They are just people who are now classified as criminal because they at some stage broke the law.

It's about cause and effect. Someone who is not criminal to that time, but breaks the law, becomes a criminal because they broke the law.

Similarly, people who purchase a gun, with no intention to use them for crime at the time of purchase. Are highly likely to choose to use the legally purchased gun, if they later decide to break the law, because guns are enablers of crime.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: chr0naut

I already brought this up but I will lay it out for you again just in case it gets missed later on.

If they LIED on their form and said they were "going to carry it out of the store", that is a felony. It is illegal to lie/make false statements on a federal form of any kind.

I was being sarcastic, however, in the situation they would not have lied if they did, indeed, take the gun out of the store.

I was pointing out how superficially stupid the criteria, that allows a 'legal' purchase of a firearm, is. It won't stop anyone who is going to later commit at crime with the firearm, from purchasing the firearm.

As well as purchasing legally, they could also lie, or get someone else to purchase it for them, or purchase it privately, or with false credentials, or they could steal a firearm from one of the many who have firearms.

But regardless, an illegal alien has no legal way to buy a firearm in the US. And if they did buy it "legally", yes, you can blame the guy that sold it to them. Doing that is also illegal and would result in him losing his license and, more than likely, doing some jail time.

You are assuming that the person who got the gun purchased it from a gun shop and complied with all relevant legislation.

a reply to: chr0naut

You are completely ignoring those who purchase firearms legally

That is not what we are talking about here, we are talking about those that buy guns to commit crimes, or buy purchasing the gun are committing a crime.

don't believe that people break the law because they are innately criminal.

Pull that wool down over your eyes a little tighter bud. I guess ignorance is bliss

guns are enablers of crime.

That is such a piss poor argument. People are the cause of gun violence, without them, guns would be sitting on a shelf not doing a damn thing. Hammers don't build houses, people do. Pencils don't make mistakes, people do. Forks/spoons don't make you fat, you do that all on your own.

a reply to: chr0naut

It won't stop anyone who is going to later commit at crime with the firearm, from purchasing the firearm.

Again, almost like criminals don't follow laws....how profound

get someone else to purchase it for them

Strawman purchase, also highly illegal

false credentials, or they could steal a firearm from one of the many who have firearms.

Also, both highly illegal acts. Do you not understand what illegal is? Seems I have to explain this to you more often than not.

You are assuming that the person who got the gun purchased it from a gun shop and complied with all relevant legislation.

The shooter had prior mental illness, whether they bought it at a gun store or privately, it was still an illegal purchase.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: chr0naut

If their purpose in buying a firearm is to commit a crime, that in itself makes them a criminal.....not really hard to understand

Not sure where you are assuming that I said someone buying a gun makes them a criminal, you need to work on your comprehension skills.

You are completely ignoring those who purchase firearms legally, and with no intention to commit a crime, but who later use those firearms in commission of a crime, like in a fit of passion, or in desperation about changed circumstances.

It's like your entire mental paradigm set is that that there is a type of person who is criminal from the birth, and it informs your every conception. That isn't how crime happens.

what percentage of gun crime is that?

a reply to: network dude

Definitely lower than the C19 mortality rate........

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: chr0naut

You are completely ignoring those who purchase firearms legally

That is not what we are talking about here, we are talking about those that buy guns to commit crimes, or buy purchasing the gun are committing a crime.

don't believe that people break the law because they are innately criminal.

Pull that wool down over your eyes a little tighter bud. I guess ignorance is bliss

guns are enablers of crime.

That is such a piss poor argument. People are the cause of gun violence, without them, guns would be sitting on a shelf not doing a damn thing. Hammers don't build houses, people do. Pencils don't make mistakes, people do. Forks/spoons don't make you fat, you do that all on your own.

Yes, people kill people. Often with guns.

However, human beings cannot project a piece of lead at near supersonic velocities without the aid of mechanical devices.

Gun violence requires guns.

People also care for and heal people, so they have something to redeem them in the balance of things. They don't use guns for those nice things because guns do not have nurturing properties at all.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: chr0naut

It won't stop anyone who is going to later commit at crime with the firearm, from purchasing the firearm.

Again, almost like criminals don't follow laws....how profound

get someone else to purchase it for them

Strawman purchase, also highly illegal

false credentials, or they could steal a firearm from one of the many who have firearms.

Also, both highly illegal acts. Do you not understand what illegal is? Seems I have to explain this to you more often than not.

You are assuming that the person who got the gun purchased it from a gun shop and complied with all relevant legislation.

The shooter had prior mental illness, whether they bought it at a gun store or privately, it was still an illegal purchase.

So the imposition of rules has proven ineffective. And clearly proliferation just increases the carnage.

What to do?

In the country of my residence (New Zealand), there have been two mass shootings over the last decade.

In the country of my citizenship (Australia), there have been 4 mass shootings over the last decade.

In the United States there have been 3,744 mass shootings over the last decade.

Both Australia and New Zealand reduced the numbers of guns that are in the hands of the general public (they still allow guns to be owned). In both countries, the police and defence forces are still fully armed and open carry.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: chr0naut

If their purpose in buying a firearm is to commit a crime, that in itself makes them a criminal.....not really hard to understand

Not sure where you are assuming that I said someone buying a gun makes them a criminal, you need to work on your comprehension skills.

You are completely ignoring those who purchase firearms legally, and with no intention to commit a crime, but who later use those firearms in commission of a crime, like in a fit of passion, or in desperation about changed circumstances.

It's like your entire mental paradigm set is that that there is a type of person who is criminal from the birth, and it informs your every conception. That isn't how crime happens.

what percentage of gun crime is that?

Although it is hard to track, the estimates are just under half:

"The vast majority of crime that is gun related is committed by people who illegally are possessing that firearm." - Fact-check by Politifact

6 major takeaways from the ATF's first report in 20 years on U.S. gun crime

Although the percentage is different for guns used in mass-shooting incidents the majority of which were legally purchased:

Number of mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and December 2023, by legality of shooter's weapons

What Do Most Mass Shooters Have in Common? They Bought Their Guns Legally.

a reply to: chr0naut

People also kill people with bats, cars, knives, bottles, fists, etc...

Why are these never a problem? Why do we not ban and make laws against having cars?

People kill people, the tool or manner in which they do it in is only a problem when it's a gun. That in itself is the problem.

a reply to: chr0naut

The rules are not ineffective, the manner in which they are enforced is the problem.

Same can be said about the US southern border, but we have plenty of threads on that currently.

What are your laws down there like for illegal gun possession? Nice jail time? Heavy fine?

Up here they just get let go with a slap on their wrist so they can go and do the same damn thing tomorrow with the same outcome.


Now, tell me, what is the real issue?

a reply to: chr0naut


It's Texas.
I could buy an AK from my friend the next town over for a couple pesos.
My 80 something Texas grandma has like 7 rifles and 3 pistols.
Everyone has extra guns and you can get em cheap with no background check.
Then there's people who 3D print em.

LATEST...

Genesse Moreno reportedly suffered from Munchausen Syndrome by proxy: court docs

There were accusations made by Genesse Moreno’s former mother-in-law in court documents that Moreno suffered from Munchausen Syndrome by proxy, and was making her own seven-year-old son sick.

“Nurses found adult pills in (her son’s) endotracheal tube while he was in the hospital. Then more adult pills were found in his feeding tube,” according to the court documents.

The child who was not potty trained was non-verbal, and “suffered by his mother ignoring medical advice, not taking him to therapy for eating, speech, and not giving him any social interaction,” the documents stated.

www.independent.co.uk...

Clearly, Moreno was abusing her special needs son...Could she have brought him to the shooting as a human shield in order to possibly force a 'death by cop' situation for them both?

a reply to: chr0naut

Ah , Allegedly David Slew Goliath with a Rock . Then there's that ...

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: chr0naut

People also kill people with bats, cars, knives, bottles, fists, etc...

Why are these never a problem? Why do we not ban and make laws against having cars?

Because they have significant benign uses.

People kill people, the tool or manner in which they do it in is only a problem when it's a gun. That in itself is the problem.

So, are you suggesting that people should be eliminated to overcome a gun problem?

The mantra of stupid offers no solution to the problem.

originally posted by: CarlLaFong
LATEST...

Genesse Moreno reportedly suffered from Munchausen Syndrome by proxy: court docs

There were accusations made by Genesse Moreno’s former mother-in-law in court documents that Moreno suffered from Munchausen Syndrome by proxy, and was making her own seven-year-old son sick.

“Nurses found adult pills in (her son’s) endotracheal tube while he was in the hospital. Then more adult pills were found in his feeding tube,” according to the court documents.

The child who was not potty trained was non-verbal, and “suffered by his mother ignoring medical advice, not taking him to therapy for eating, speech, and not giving him any social interaction,” the documents stated.

www.independent.co.uk...

Clearly, Moreno was abusing her special needs son...Could she have brought him to the shooting as a human shield in order to possibly force a 'death by cop' situation for them both?

That tranny absolutely planned for that poor child to die with it.
She learned human shielding from the palestinians, according to that pro palestine sticker on the rifle.
They reported she was born in the Middle East then went to Central America but I haven’t seen anything recent confirming that.
Abigail Dye from Fox26 reported that she spoke with neighbors who confirmed it being transgender but I haven’t seen any recent mentions of that either. Strange.
This whole thing will get memory holed quicker now due to the KC shooting.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: chr0naut

The rules are not ineffective, the manner in which they are enforced is the problem.

Same can be said about the US southern border, but we have plenty of threads on that currently.

What are your laws down there like for illegal gun possession? Nice jail time? Heavy fine?

Possession of a firearm except for a lawful purpose - no possession presumption relied on (Section 45 Arms Act 1983)

Or, if armed offenders squad police believe that you represent an existential threat to them or others, they will shoot to kill, aiming at central body mass.

Up here they just get let go with a slap on their wrist so they can go and do the same damn thing tomorrow with the same outcome.

Here, they treat firearms as if they are very-very dangerous toys, and we won't let the infantile play with them.

Over there, the infantile can play all they want, and arms dealers and the criminal continue to profit by the loophole.

Now, tell me, what is the real issue?

How can you do post after post and still not seem to know what the issue is?

The issue is the problem with numerous and constant gun-related deaths but the US political system is historically incapable of dealing with, when the solutions are trivial, and have been proven out, in much of the known world.

a reply to: chr0naut

The issue is the problem with numerous and constant gun-related deaths but the US political system is historically incapable of dealing with, when the solutions are trivial, and have been proven out, in much of the known world.

You're trying to make it political. "....the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

If deaths are your concern, firearms aren't the problem.

Yet it remains clear what is your concern. That being the subversion of rights of people in favor of giving government more power over them.

When you finally come to that realization, you just may understand how clownish you come across.

originally posted by: TheValeyard
a reply to: chr0naut


It's Texas.
I could buy an AK from my friend the next town over for a couple pesos.
My 80 something Texas grandma has like 7 rifles and 3 pistols.
Everyone has extra guns and you can get em cheap with no background check.
Then there's people who 3D print em.

That's like arguing that Fentanyl is cheap and you can get it everywhere.

As Porkchop has stated, those guns purchased without background check are supposed to be illegal.