Does anyone else get the sense that something downright miraculous might be up ahead?

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Kurokage

In those cases the best and most moral thing to do is badmouthing, peer pressure, and bullying...

Psychology is science, try it... But be warned it's one of those fields that have the potential to make you see how you lie to yourself and most people find that a very unpleasant scientific discovery...

Yes, in those cases the 'leaders' of those religions do tend to badmouth and bully anyone who questions blind faith, thanks for pointing that out!

The only people lying to themselves are the ones who claim a fairytale book is all the answers you need!

originally posted by: AllisVibration

If you hold someone at gun point, they are going to tell you what they think it is you want to hear 99.9% of the time. Regardless of what they really think.

I specifically said in my hypothetical scenario that they have to answer the question correctly to live. That has nothing to do with what 'I want to hear', it's purely based on whether the answer to the question is true.

Low self esteem is often the reason somone is intimidated and accuses others with delusions of grandeur.

Low slef esteem is much more prevalent than actual illusions of grandeur...

Try again...

I didn't accuse you of anything, you brought up the study of psychology and I merely suggested that you study delusions of grandeur because they are pertinent to this thread. I'm certainly not intimidated by someone who cannot even bother to use the built-in spellcheck before submitting a post.

a reply to: [post=27298083]FlyInTheOintmen


I think God is going to show himself, and remind all of us puny humans exactly who he is.

originally posted by: darkwingduck
a reply to: [post=27298083]FlyInTheOintmen


I think God is going to show himself, and remind all of us puny humans exactly who he is.

And then what? What's the point? Why doesn't 'god' have anything better to do?

originally posted by: darkwingduck
a reply to: [post=27298083]FlyInTheOintmen


I think God is going to show himself, and remind all of us puny humans exactly who he is.

Don't worry, all we need are some iron chariots and God is dumbfounded.

“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19

Maybe this is the answer to this thread, thats what the miraculous thing up ahead is?

God has worked out how to use a tyre wrench or how to tip over a chariot!!

a reply to: Kurokage

Apparently they had motorbikes back then, too:

"And the roar of his triumph was heard throughout the land".....

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Kurokage

Apparently they had motorbikes back then, too:

"And the roar of his triumph was heard throughout the land".....

Well at least he had good taste and bought a British Triumph!!

a reply to: Kurokage

Mid life crisis folk here used to buy Harley's. Now it's more Triumphs.

My mid life crisis would be Trans Ams and MOPARs.

Nearly there.

a reply to: Kurokage

Your comment: You may want to check the history books and see how many people have been murdered and killed by sheeple because 'God' wanted them to, Christians, muslims and the like, are the same blind iggnorant masses that stone people to death or hang a black person from a tree in the name of their favorite myth...

The ones who are lacking in critical thinking are the gulible who follow old wives tales and superstions because a fictional book says so. These are the same people who will allow a child to die because God said accepting blood transfusions is wrong, or push FGM onto little girls because a woman should only have sex for reproduction.
How about all the different priesthoods covering up sickening child abuse and hiding behind a religion?


No where in the Bible (and pretty sure neither the Koran or any other faith based holy book) does it say to do any of these things. Those sickening things you mentioned are man's ideas and all part of a patriarchal system. The only time God told the Israelites to go forth and destroy other people was when they were sacrificing and eating children, and when the nephilim were everywhere. Unless you understand the culture, history, the other gods that people were following you have no comment to make. The blood thing? That's a Witness belief - which their own take on things, not a Biblical thing. Yes, one wasn't to eat blood as it contained "life", it was a sacrificial thing.

Those covering up sexual abuse in the church - they are not a true representative of Jesus. They are acting out of their own lusts and selfish desires.

How can one disregard the validity of the Bible when there is historical evidence of the people, places and events noted in the Bible? There is proof everywhere.

This line comes to mind: New International Version
They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.”

a reply to: Kurokage

Those that claim ratio is all you need are equally deluded.


there is a monolithic component in the scientific establishment that showcases the same dogmatic dynamics as the monoliths in religious establishment.

And the sheeps those that have been thoroughly indoctrinated by the school system to never question authority, are usually specialized fools that lack oversight.

Inside the little echo chamber everything works so they belive with the same blindness as religious people.

There are bridges that alow the mind to connect the two but that kind of knowledge is usually reserved for initiations and such.

It's the same blind faith.

How much of what you think to be true is first hand knowledge?

I'd wager a guess and say 95% is third hand knowledge.

So while everyone is distracted by the two hands, it's always worth to watch the third one...

originally posted by: BrotherKinsMan

Who's to say the miracle didn't already happen?

I guess it depends on what miracle one is referring to. To some people, miracles happen every day:

originally posted by: whereislogic

originally posted by: BrotherKinsMan

Who's to say the miracle didn't already happen?

I guess it depends on what miracle one is referring to. To some people, miracles happen every day:

What miracles?
There is no evidence of any kind miracles happening in this world.

originally posted by: twistedpuppy
a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Yes, the war will break out. Our beloved Putin, Xi and Kim are already working on it. They will liberate us all from the terror of NWO. No angels will be arriving though, rather the Great Old Ones to collect the bones.

No need to scare people. This is the next big event coming up (see picture as well):

You can't miss it.

Bringing us back to:

A bit more detail and context (playlist):

Current events-The End of False Religion is imminent!

Or should I have started here:

The Pagan Religious Roots of Evolutionary Philosophies and Philosophical Naturalism (part 1 of 2)

originally posted by: twistedpuppy

I won't be going into a tired "give me a proof of your beliefs" debate. I will refer you to the Scriptures instead. Christ organized no global magic shows. He didn't cause the filthy Roman Empire to fall although it did fall in its own time, like all empires fall, giving birth to no less corrupted reign of popes.

The Bible did prophecy (predict) the rise and fall of the Roman Empire many centuries before it happened though. It even prophecied which Empire was going to replace the Roman Empire, discussed in the last part below (although, a representitive picture for this Empire is already shown early on in part 1 at 3:08 if you don't mind spoilers):



So remember:

“Make sure of the more important things.”—PHIL. 1:10.

“Do not treat prophecies with contempt. Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine” (1 Thessalonians 5:20,21)

“But let God be found true, even if every man be found a liar.” (Romans 3:4)

In the words of Bob Marley in his song "One Drop": "But read it in Revelation".

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Kurokage

Those that claim ratio is all you need are equally deluded.


there is a monolithic component in the scientific establishment that showcases the same dogmatic dynamics as the monoliths in religious establishment.

And the sheeps those that have been thoroughly indoctrinated by the school system to never question authority, are usually specialized fools that lack oversight.

Inside the little echo chamber everything works so they belive with the same blindness as religious people.

There are bridges that alow the mind to connect the two but that kind of knowledge is usually reserved for initiations and such.

It's the same blind faith.

How much of what you think to be true is first hand knowledge?

I'd wager a guess and say 95% is third hand knowledge.

So while everyone is distracted by the two hands, it's always worth to watch the third one...

You keep recycling the idea the scientific establishment and scientists are corrupt but that's not true. There are bad apples everywhere and the scientific fields are not an exception but still there is no evidence of the supernatural world and the intelligent creator or there is going to be something miraculous in the near future.

Can you tell me which of the physical and biochemical processes have supernatural causes?

Some people have suggested photosynthesis(!) galaxy formation and even amino acid polymerization. That's what happens when you don't open a book while you are a teenager and instead you are absorbed in ridiculous 'theories'.

originally posted by: Venkuish1
There is no evidence of any kind miracles happening in this world.

Just going to jump back in for a minute ... yes there are.

People ask God for miracles, and sometimes God will give it to them. Impossible medical cases that are instantly cured. These are investigated and the Catholic church tries to disprove them. If it's impossible to disprove the miracle ... it's declared as such.

Such as these two cases of miracle cancer cures through the intercession of St. Maximillian Kolbe.

The healing of a woman’s cancer: In 1981, a woman named Francesca Rubatto was diagnosed with terminal cancer and prayed to Maximilian for a cure. After praying and receiving a relic of Maximilian, Francesca’s cancer disappeared and she was declared cured by doctors. This miracle was recognized by the Church as a legitimate healing.

The healing of a man’s brain tumor: In 1983, a man named Antonio Bellomi was diagnosed with a brain tumor and given only a few months to live. He prayed to Maximilian for a cure and received a relic of the saint. Shortly thereafter, the tumor disappeared and Antonio was declared cured by doctors. This miracle was also recognized by the Church

It's very easy to google up the miracles from God that have happened.
I could give pages and pages of examples.
The Catholic church tries very hard to disprove them in order to authenticate.
But when they can't be disproven ... they are declared as miracles.

Okay. I said I was out of this conversation because it'sreally going nowhere and is now nothing but a slam festival. Just thought I'd add that one last bit of information.

a reply to: Venkuish1

Can you tell me which of the physical and biochemical processes have supernatural causes?

Yes.
pretty much all those that science can't fully explain. It's been used like that in the vernacular since like, i don't know, the advent of science?

You keep recycling the idea the scientific establishment and scientists are corrupt but that's not true.

And that's just denial...

The only thing that isn't corrupt is the scientific method. And a lot of what you claim to be irrefutable proofs really aren't if you'd follow the method to the T...
Alot of it actually are "common sense" agreement to fit a narrative.

Evolution theory was as fundamental to justify slavery as religion, during that time a global scientific network established itself that made lots of money and is to this day well established inside the whole scientific complex.

Follow the money...
history is science too, and so far the only thing scientifically proven about history is that it's written by the winners.

originally posted by: Venkuish1

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Venkuish1

originally posted by: IndieA
a reply to: Venkuish1

There is no evidence for the existence of the supernatural world, God, demons and angels, like after death. That's not debatable but a fact.

Out of body experiences are evidence of spirits, a spiritual realm, and the likelihood of spirits continuing to exist after the body dies.

Profound examples of reincarnation are also evidence.

But I'm not hear to argue, I'm just curious what it would mean to you if you found out that you were wrong about these things.

Would you be okay with part of yourself, let's call it a soul, continuing on after physical death?

No they are not.

Can you prove it beyond a reasonable doubt,as in you will stake your life on it?

And you know with absolute certainty that the bible was always a man made creation and not told to men to write down?
Most likely the answer wil be NO,because you are trying to prove a negative.
lack of evidence does not preclude lack of existence. Science just has not advanced far enough yet.

The burden of proof for the claims made in the Bible are on those who made them and not on me. All we know is that the Bible and all other religious books are written by humans who claim to have been inspired by God or sometimes even written by the hand of God. The Bible just like most religious books are devoid of science and philosophy and this is a very good sign they are written by men od that time.

Personal experiences are what they are. I don't contest that people can have personal experiences and sometimes strange ones. But that doesn't imply there is something paranormal to them. Personal experiences are not what we call evidence although I don't personally reject them.

OH AS IF I DIDNT SEE THIS COMING.SCIENTIST COP OUT AS USUAL. The people who wrote the bible were alive before YOU ,and sorry that means its on YOU to disprove it.

originally posted by: yuppa

OH AS IF I DIDNT SEE THIS COMING.SCIENTIST COP OUT AS USUAL. The people who wrote the bible were alive before YOU ,and sorry that means its on YOU to disprove it.

Yeah I reminded him that our entire calendar is based around the coming of the historical Jesus, and he said it wasn't evidence for his historicity.

Posted Feb 13, 2024 years after the coming of Jesus.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: chr0naut

How would you know?

That my interlocutor is a saint? They claimed to have a perfectly functioning moral sense. That's the hallmark of a saint. Or of a footling, self-satisfied idiot, and a hypocrite to boot.

You seem to have a misunderstanding.

In Christianity, "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". Even the disciples had doubts, denied, and/or betrayed Christ. Their other sins are not recorded because not only are they beside the point of the gospels and epistles, they are counter to the point.

Saints are not sinless, they are repentant and forgiven. They continued through their entire lives to strive towards perfection, but that does not mean that they had attained it.

I'm not the one claiming to have a perfect set of morals.

Have you considered that there is consequence from immoral acts and attitudes?

Even if morals were instinctual/innate and for evolutionary advantage, that doesn't deal with consequence, nor does it seem to have been effective in prevention, because absolutely everyone commits most of those actions, all the time, throughout their lives.

Thanks, I'll give them a read and get back to you

Oh no, you won't. And well you know it. In two or three days you'll be making the same argument, morality from divinity, to some other poor sucker on ATS, having shut your eyes and ears to what was shown you.

Actually, I have read those posts, the Wikipedia page, and the kin selection paper. So there!



I am still not convinced, and for these reasons:

- Ascribing a conceptual framework to instinct explains that it does exist, but it explains nothing about why, nor does it explain how it was 'installed' in the organism. The argument is a complete nothingburger of cognitive circumlocution.

Similarly, we don't actually know if dolphins have any morality in regard to sex. The fact that some other species do things that humans would regard as immoral in humans, does not mean they don't have any morality, nor does it mean that they do. This is a simple case of anthropomorphising and not applicable to arguments about morality in humans.

- Arguing that morality is prescriptive suffers from the issue that morality appears innate, before the appearance of the authority figure, and also that authorities are ephemeral, they don't last in comparison to the duration of moral dictates and the species.

- The success, socially, of psychopathy and of social conflict leading to war, murder and manslaughter, shows that as a survival mechanism, morality is is notably and obviously ineffective.

The counter case that morality is a threat to the survival of the species is also strongly evidenced. The only way one might come to believe that morality is a survival mechanism, is by ignoring half of what it has actually done.

- Although kin selection does go some way towards demonstrating a type of possible altruism. It isn't the only possible 'altruistic' mechanism. Nor is it the the only way altruism is expressed.

People have given their lives in place of those who are not kin.

So once again, it isn't enough of an explanation, because there is a lot it doesn't explain.

It is just part of reductionist mindset in science, because it is easier than a wholistic approach. When you are analysing the mechanical, reductionism is an effective tool, but it isn't as useful in describing large, integrated, dissimilar but inferentially linked, complexity.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Terpene
Ever read any of Robert Monroe's books?

His second book is called Far Journeys, in the chapter called "Hearsay Evidence" he describes something along the lines of what I posted.

Cliffs notes:

...Loosh.
...Loosh.
Loosh ...
... more loosh ...
... emanations of Loosh. ...
... Loosh ...

As always, take with as much salt as needed.

I think no amount of salt (or pepper) can make crap/excrement taste all that much better though. Funny word though, did he make it up himself?

...

AS MEANS of communicating have expanded—from printing to the telephone, radio, television, and the Internet—the flow of persuasive messages has dramatically accelerated. This communications revolution has led to information overload, as people are inundated by countless messages from every quarter. Many respond to this pressure by absorbing messages more quickly and accepting them without questioning or analyzing them.

...

Source: The Manipulation of Information (Awake!—2000)

Next page:

“A fool will believe anything.”—PROVERBS 14:15, TODAY’S ENGLISH VERSION.

... How can you protect yourself from the types of people that the Bible calls “profitless talkers” and “deceivers of the mind”? (Titus 1:10) Once you are familiar with some of their tricks [whereislogic: discussed on the previous page], you are in a better position to evaluate any message or information that comes your way. Here are some ways to do this.

Be selective: A completely open mind could be likened to a pipe that lets just anything flow through it—even sewage. No one wants a mind contaminated with poison. Solomon, a king and educator in ancient times, warned: “Anyone inexperienced puts faith in every word, but the shrewd one considers his steps.” (Proverbs 14:15) So we need to be selective. We need to scrutinize whatever is presented to us, deciding what to accept and what to reject.

However, we do not want to be so narrow that we refuse to consider facts that can improve our thinking. How can we find the right balance? By adopting a standard with which to measure new information. Here a Christian has a source of great wisdom. He has the Bible as a sure guide for his thinking. On the one hand, his mind is open, that is, receptive to new information. He properly weighs such new information against the Bible standard and fits what is true into his pattern of thinking. On the other hand, his mind sees the danger of information that is entirely inconsistent with his Bible-based values.

Use discernment: ...

... Discernment enables you to discard irrelevant information or misleading facts and distinguish the substance of a matter. But how can you discern when something is misleading?

Put information to the test: “Beloved ones,” said John, a first-century Christian teacher, “do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions.” (1 John 4:1) Some people today are like sponges; they soak up whatever they come across. It is all too easy to absorb whatever is around us.

But it is far better for each individual personally to choose what he will feed his mind. It is said that we are what we eat, and this can apply to food for both the body and the mind. No matter what you are reading or watching or listening to, test to see whether it has propagandistic overtones or is truthful.

Moreover, if we want to be fair-minded, we must be willing to subject our own opinions to continual testing as we take in new information. We must realize that they are, after all, opinions. Their trustworthiness depends on the validity of our facts, on the quality of our reasoning, and on the standards or values that we choose to apply.

Ask questions: As we have seen, there are many today who would like to ‘delude us with persuasive arguments.’ (Colossians 2:4) Therefore, when we are presented with persuasive arguments, we should ask questions.

... Also, if possible, try to check the track record of those speaking. Are they known to speak the truth? ... Why should you regard this person—or organization or publication—as having expert knowledge or trustworthy information on the subject in question? If you sense some appeal to emotions, ask yourself, ‘When viewed dispassionately, what are the merits of the message?’

...

Source: Do Not Be a Victim of Propaganda! (Awake!—2000)

Worth repeating, Proverbs 30:12:

There is a generation that is pure in its own eyes

But has not been cleansed from its filth.* [Lit., “excrement.”]

Oh, Bob Marley on the matter:

Written Nonsense (1955)

Never before has so much been written that is nonsensical. In Roman times Paul told Christians not to act like the people of the nations, who “walk in the unprofitableness of their minds.” (Eph. 4:17, NW) Just how sadly unprofitable some of the writings of those minds must have been we can imagine from a discovery at Pompeii. It was the custom back then to write on the walls of buildings. Some shrewd reader and commentator of the writings of others had written on a wall in Pompeii the following in Latin: “It is a wonder, O wall, that thou hast not yet crumbled under the weight of so much written nonsense.”

26,765,482 posts and counting.

When will ATS crumble?

“However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron.”(1 Timothy 4:1,2).

Knowledge (Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2)

...
Knowledge (gno'sis) is put in a very favorable light in the Christian Greek Scriptures. However, not all that men may call “knowledge” is to be sought, because philosophies and views exist that are “falsely called ‘knowledge.’” (1Ti 6:20) ...
... Thus Paul wrote about some who were learning (taking in knowledge) “yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge [...] of truth.” (2Ti 3:6, 7)

“... having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power and from these turn away. From among these arise men who slyly work their way into households and captivate weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.” (2Ti 3:5-7)

“Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, turning away from the empty speeches that violate what is holy and from the contradictions of the falsely called ‘knowledge.’ By making a show of such knowledge, some have deviated from the faith.

May the undeserved kindness be with you.” (1Ti 6:20,21)

...
How does God view the “wisdom” offered by human philosophy?

1 Cor. 1:19-25: “It is written: ‘I will make the wisdom of the wise men perish, and the intelligence of the intellectual men I will shove aside.’ Where is the wise man? Where the scribe? Where the debater of this system of things? Did not God make the wisdom of the world foolish? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not get to know God, God saw good through the foolishness [as it appears to the world] of what is preached to save those believing. . . . Because a foolish thing of God [as the world views it] is wiser than men, and a weak thing of God [as the world may see it] is stronger than men.” (Such a viewpoint on God’s part is certainly not arbitrary or unreasonable. He has provided in the Bible, the most widely circulated book in the world, a clear statement of his purpose. He has sent his witnesses to discuss it with all who will listen. How foolish for any creature to think that he has wisdom greater than that of God!)

Source: Philosophy (Reasoning From the Scriptures)