Pope Francis Says Marxism, Christianity Have a Common Mission

a reply to: TheValeyard

Marxism is mandated charity, regardless of faith.

Christianity, if you choose to tithe is up to the individual.

I just have a hard time with people saying they are the same.

It's like saying a hand grenade and an apple are the same because they have the same shape.

a reply to: Abhorsen

I have no quarrel with The Will To Believe. I find the argument it presents, that belief, or faith can be a rational approach to existential exploration or investigation is a valuable addition to human developed philosophical studies. This however does not mean that it will achieve the goals set forth in doing so. It may but it may also lead to murderous actions as can be demonstrated by any number of imperfect religious doctrine. This especially when the goal of knowing a supreme being which is by so many accounts, unknowable. There in lies delusion. James was after all just human and imperfect like the rest of us and his points were prone to error as he was guessing as all other philosophers were.

I also think that Pascal's Wager is a good argument pointing to a supreme being yet it does not matter-of-factly point to the God of the Bible as so many wish it to. Or does it? You tell me. I don't think it does.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: TheValeyard

Marxism is mandated charity, regardless of faith.

Christianity, if you choose to tithe is up to the individual.

I just have a hard time with people saying they are the same.

It's like saying a hand grenade and an apple are the same because they have the same shape.

But the Pope was not quoted as saying they WERE the same, only that they have a common goal; presumeably to help the less fortunate.

a reply to: TheValeyard

Wealthy helping those less fortunate is not the same as an ideology that makes everyone. . . less fortunate.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: TheValeyard

Wealthy helping those less fortunate is not the same as an ideology that makes everyone. . . less fortunate.

Already addressed that in my last comment. The claim isn't that they're the same, or have the same outcomes,
but that the goal is fundamentally the same, as in a striving towards equity.

And BTW this might not mean absolute equity, as in no rich people at all. I don't think the Pope has said that.
Someone please correct me if that is false.

And ultimately, is he gonna mandate this from his followers? Well, probably not.
It's probably just part of an attempt to guilt super wealthy people into helping poor people.
He can't legally force people to give money, technically. LOL. NOT ANYMORE.

a reply to: FlyersFan

A good learning moment for religious people who are not catholic to see how catholics handle this news.

Human nature suggests others will behave in a similar way when their authority figures do the same thing.

A long time ago some fake protocols mentioned the destruction of the world's religions as one of their stated goals. A difficult topic and yet if one looks at the direction of the entire world since then it lines up perfectly with the content of the fake protocols.

Interestingly enough the pope ordered all its valuables from all over the world to be transferred to a vault in Vatican city last year in September.

Shouldn't his communist views dictate that he shares the wealth?

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: FlyersFan

A good learning moment for religious people who are not catholic to see how catholics handle this news.

Interestingly enough the pope ordered all its valuables from all over the world to be transferred to a vault in Vatican city last year in September.

Shouldn't his communist views dictate that he shares the wealth?

You are perhaps remembering "The Shoes of the Fisherman", a somewhat forgotten novel made into a film in 1968?


OTH, don't tell parents traveling with their children that, should the airplane cabin experience a sudden loss of pressure, they should first place the oxygen mask over their own face before securing one over their children's face...so that the parents ("IL Papa" and mama) remain conscious long enough to help their "flock" of kiddos?

a reply to: BingoMcGoof

Thank you! It's wonderful that you're of the logical persuasion. I enjoy differences in opinions, even though I'm admittedly a hopeless Jesus Bible thumper lol

I mean well, though

As for William James, I think it's cool that empiricism allows for replication of the results of research studies, which helps to develop accredited ethical and effective medical and mental health procedures and diagnoses. You know, in the UK I'm actually a licensed Mental Health First Aider in Great Britain? Yeah over 90% of their citizens are trained in this wonderful program about helping others and promoting pro-social behaviors and good mental wellbeing and mindfulness. Especially in the wake of global and economic upheavals, such initiatives are so useful.

The only drawback is they don't have a diagnostic criteria manual like the DSM-V and upcoming DSM-VI. They only have the ICD-10 insurance codes.

Yeah. Vague ICD-10 codes.

Kid you not. It's kind of scary, actually.

I taught them about Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs since I was surprised it wasn't included in the manual. Here, I'll link it. The teacher told us to share it as much as possible. It's the entire course manual. Adult MHFA Two Day Manual

originally posted by: TheValeyard
Amazing the mental gymnastics people will go through just to pretend Jesus didn't say to share with the poor and less fortunate, and that rich people who hoard wealth won't make it into heaven.

There is a difference between people volunteering to share some of what they have out of love for God and people ..., and communism which is slavery to the state and in which destroys religion and belief in God. BIG DIFFERENCE.

originally posted by: BingoMcGoof
a reply to: ColeYounger2

I"m pretty sure you are old enough to know about the context upon which my comment was made. That context is of course that religions are the ''best guesses'' on the nature of existence dependent upon the times, places and histories of the people who wrote them.

What’s the best guesses on the nature of pretension dependant on?

a reply to: TheValeyard

It doesn't matter how many times you rehash different ways or dumb down what Marxism is people will go out of their way to say it's the opposite.

Many such cases here on ATS...

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: TheValeyard

It doesn't matter how many times you rehash different ways or dumb down what Marxism is people will go out of their way to say it's the opposite.

Many such cases here on ATS...

I agree some here don't dive deep into what the Pope really is trying to relay.

Pope Francis defends himself against communism claims
January 11, 2015 / 8:03 AM EST / CBS/AP

VATICAN CITY - Pope Francis is insisting that his concern for the poor and critique of the global economic system isn't some novel, communist-inspired ideology but rather the original and core "touchstone" of the Christian faith.

Some U.S. conservatives have branded the first Latin American pope a Marxist for his frequent critiques of consumerism and focus on a church "that is poor and for the poor." But in an interview contained in a new book, Francis explains that his message is rooted in the Gospel and has been echoed by church fathers since Christianity's first centuries.

"The Gospel does not condemn the wealthy, but the idolatry of wealth, the idolatry that makes people indifferent to the call of the poor," Francis says in "This Economy Kills," a study of the pope's economic and social teachings, excerpts of which were provided Sunday to The Associated Press.

Specifically, Francis summarized a verse from the Gospel of Matthew which is the essential mission statement of his papacy: "I was hungry, I was thirsty, I was in prison, I was sick, I was naked and you helped me, clothed me, visited me, took care of me."

"Caring for our neighbor, for those who are poor, who suffer in body and soul, for those who are in need: this is the touchstone. Is it pauperism? No. It is the Gospel."

www.cbsnews.com...

This is the Pope's true intent and he has never waivered from it.

originally posted by: quintessentone
I agree some here don't dive deep into what the Pope really is trying to relay.
.

If you 'dive deep' you find an anti-free-market, anti-borders, anti-America, anti-Catholic, New World Order, MARXIST.

Christianity and Communism can not be 'fraternal'. They are, at their core, fundamentally totally at odds. That, and the fact that Communism does not tolerate religion, mass murders the religious, can't be overlooked.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone
I agree some here don't dive deep into what the Pope really is trying to relay.
.

If you 'dive deep' you find an anti-free-market, anti-borders, anti-America, anti-Catholic, New World Order, MARXIST.

Christianity and Communism can not be 'fraternal'. They are, at their core, fundamentally totally at odds. That, and the fact that Communism does not tolerate religion, mass murders the religious, can't be overlooked.

Specifically, Francis summarized a verse from the Gospel of Matthew which is the essential mission statement of his papacy: "I was hungry, I was thirsty, I was in prison, I was sick, I was naked and you helped me, clothed me, visited me, took care of me."

Is that a Marxist statement from the Bible to you?

originally posted by: quintessentone
Is that a Marxist statement from the Bible to you?

His entire papacy and all his political statements are Marxist. You haven't been following what he's been saying over the years. You are clueless.

Again - Christianity can not be 'fraternal' with Communism. Communism is anti-Religion and deadly towards religious people. The whole purpose of Christianity is evangelical and to get people to follow their religion. OPPOSITES. Learn some history. Here are a few links to get you started.

100 Years of Communism and 100 Million Dead - Bolshevik plague that began in Russia

Some 32-45 million Christians were killed in various communist uprisings in that same time period.

Pitesti Prison

What "religion" did Jesus practice anyway?

Wasn't he at odds with the religious people of his time?

Weren't there rumors about him being possesd or working with "Satan"?

Didn't he dismiss religious laws by saying they could just be reduced to just loving God and your neighbors?

Didn't people that followed "The Way" sell everything, give it to the poor, and hold all things they did have in common?

Jesus might have agreed way more with Marx then with your local pastor. Also, according to the bible tithes CAN NOT be money.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone
Is that a Marxist statement from the Bible to you?

His entire papacy and all his political statements are Marxist. You haven't been following what he's been saying over the years. You are clueless.

Again - Christianity can not be 'fraternal' with Communism. Communism is anti-Religion and deadly towards religious people. The whole purpose of Christianity is evangelical and to get people to follow their religion. OPPOSITES. Learn some history. Here are a few links to get you started.

100 Years of Communism and 100 Million Dead - Bolshevik plague that began in Russia

Some 32-45 million Christians were killed in various communist uprisings in that same time period.

Pitesti Prison

He's been saying the same thing about the poor and the world since day 1, he is consistent even though he may use different ways of expressing the same idea - the ideas are grounded in the same intent.

a reply to: quintessentone

Him stating that he supposedly wants to help the poor does NOT equate with Christianity and Communism being able to engage in anything fraternal. And Communism doesn't help the poor. In fact, it just makes MORE poor.

Again - Communism and Christianity have DIFFERENT missions. The pope claiming the mission is the same is dead wrong.


You didn't read the links, did you? Nope. Otherwise, you'd see the true mission of communism and you'd realize that it has nothing to do with the mission of Christianity.

100 Years of Communism and 100 Million Dead - Bolshevik plague that began in Russia

Some 32-45 million Christians were killed in various communist uprisings in that same time period.

Pitesti Prison

originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: quintessentone

Him stating that he supposedly wants to help the poor does NOT equate with Christianity and Communism being able to engage in anything fraternal. And Communism doesn't help the poor. In fact, it just makes MORE poor.

Again - Communism and Christianity have DIFFERENT missions. The pope claiming the mission is the same is dead wrong.


You didn't read the links, did you? Nope. Otherwise, you'd see the true mission of communism and you'd realize that it has nothing to do with the mission of Christianity.

100 Years of Communism and 100 Million Dead - Bolshevik plague that began in Russia

Some 32-45 million Christians were killed in various communist uprisings in that same time period.

Pitesti Prison

We've been through this before with this Pope and you have your side and I have mine. Also I give him more latitude because he's very old and I know what his intent is and always will be regardless of how he words it.

originally posted by: quintessentone
I know what his intent is and always will be regardless of how he words it.

Yeah ... his intent is New World Order COMMUNISM. Anti-borders. Anti-America. Anti-Catholic. Anti-Free-Market. And claims a 'fraternal same mission' with godless communists who really don't care about the poor at all but just pretend to. You still didn't read the links.