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A different look at freewill

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posted on Feb, 2 2024 @ 05:55 PM
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a reply to: FlyInTheOintment



He is either a lunatic, the Devil himself, or the Sovereign Lord of All, the Alpha & Omega, the Beginning & the End.


There is a third possibility. You have failed to comprehend the meaning of John 8: 58. Western science still operates under Descartes proposition "I think therefore I AM". Whereas Jesus may have been stating that "I AM" is not a function of mind but exists prior to the material world altogether.

Meister Eckhart ... "The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love."
edit on 2-2-2024 by glend because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2024 @ 09:00 AM
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a reply to: RAY1990

I'm glad you see it Ray99.
I'm not sure everyone can see it.

That moment of freewill choice, where kindness wins over selfishness.





posted on Feb, 3 2024 @ 09:06 AM
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a reply to: YouSir

Dunno man.
Maybe it is my ego telling myself a nice story about myself.

Ego is very clever, and fools me everyday.

How can one tell the difference ?

Crossed that same neighbor yesterday.
We were all smiles and greetings.
Perhaps he is oblivious.
We'll see what happens next snowfall ... LoL !




posted on Feb, 3 2024 @ 09:25 AM
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a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Thanks for stopping-by FITO.

Sincere apologies if anything written by me can be considered blasphemous.
I can be a bit awkward around such things.
I don't know anything about Jesus, and should not write of Him.

I did glean from your comments that you get what I've been clumsily trying to point towards.


... Now there is definitely a case for each of us knowing instinctively the Golden Rule - it is the voice of our conscience, the connection to the Spirit of God which is present in small measure within every human ever born. ...


I think this is possible for folks from all areas of the world, and all faiths, and no faiths.
Perhaps only the supposed 10% of humans that are sociopathic cannot feel this ?

Let Love be with U




posted on Feb, 3 2024 @ 09:36 AM
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a reply to: glend

Yes Good-Glend.

Modern science cannot get beyond consciousness.
It is fundamental.

In that space : we are all creators, of all that we perceive.
Love explodes out from there, like bright sunshine.

I chuckled reviewing my last comment to you : " Do we even have the choice ? ", in the context of discussing freewill.
I decided to not edit, and let it sit there.
Leaving open the possibility that we neither generate, nor control that burst of Love.

Then my ego says : " hold-on. What's goin on ere then ? " LoL !!
He wants a piece of the action, just like some neighborhood " protector ".

Peace and Love.




posted on Feb, 3 2024 @ 06:53 PM
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a reply to: KnowItAllKnowNothin

The thickness of the segmentation between ego and love varies greatly between us all. With you, that segmentation has started to break down. So you see a distinction. Whereas the majority of people remain trapped within the labyrinth of their own segmentation. Totally clueless to what you describe as its outside their experience.

Thing is, by immersing in that love. You make it stronger for everyone, from the inside.

Best wishes and love.



posted on Feb, 3 2024 @ 06:58 PM
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a reply to: KnowItAllKnowNothin

I don't care.

(see what I did there?)




posted on Feb, 4 2024 @ 01:27 PM
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a reply to: glend

You are very generous Good Glend.
Thank-you.

I have heard others mention also, that by vibing on that level : it helps all.




posted on Feb, 4 2024 @ 01:36 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Good to see you still rockin it DB !



As I am talking, please listen to find out the state of your own mind. Do not merely hear the words but use the words to open the door into your own mind. Really what we are doing is the process that opens the door into yourself. We are taking a pilgrimage inwardly; we are taking a journey together into the whole process of the mind. If you are merely listening to words, it will have no value, but if we are journeying together – not listening to me but journeying together – then you will discover for yourself the truth or falseness of what is being said.

J. Krishnamurti
From Public Talk 2, New Delhi, 24 January 1962





posted on Feb, 5 2024 @ 12:26 PM
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a reply to: KnowItAllKnowNothin




Originally posted by KnowItAllKnowNothin
Beyond the Golden-Rule, the teachings of great sages like Jesus, and the societal rules that man makes: there is something deep within us, that somehow tells us what is right, and what is wrong.

Not the rules of conduct, laws, or philosophy, that a person adopts, but way below, before, or beyond the ego and intellect.

Deep down to the sources of intuition, instinct, and things that reverberate within us, even before the intellect can frame it, before the ego can label it: deeper.


Well said.

When we consider the idea of ourselves being spiritual beings and that we incarnate here (and other realms/worlds too) to experience a life; then there has to be a form of “forgetting”, in order for us to enjoy this life experience. And although this forgetting allows to enjoy this life experience, we are always rooted in the source of All at our core. In fact, I believe it is our divine connection to God which actually gives us our free will or choice etc…

Religions come into to play precisely because of this “forgetting”; as they help to give others guidance and Laws to live by. In reality though the Laws have all been written by someone with spiritual understanding. But even those who have not spiritually awoken yet, still have that divine inner connection to God/source…they still feel what is right and wrong intuitively, just like you said, even if they don’t know why or how…



Originally posted by KnowItAllKnowNothin
This realization, opened the door to my understanding that there is a deep centre, where perhaps the constructs of society and Man, have less influence.

We are not talking about the kind of thinking, where random thoughts just pop into our consciousness: but the kind of thinking where we purposely ponder, contemplate, pray, and meditate.

Below that level of contemplation, deeper, are instincts, intuition, and whatever. Things we feel, that do not originate from our social-programming, education, and other brainwashings.


You’re on the right track imo…It also reminds me of this…




posted on Feb, 7 2024 @ 12:41 PM
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a reply to: BatCaveJoe

Thanks BCJ.

I don't know why we are having this experience, but here we are !
That was part of the consideration, for the mention of us being a species with amnesia in the OP.
It also matches the quote you added, so we're vibing on all cylinders now ! LoL !

I like the idea, others have pointed to it in this thread as well, that we may well be pointing to a place of creation, divinity, or a connection with God, for those that believe that God is a separate being, but still connected.

A little bit of chaos causes me much interference, and I have a hard time sitting-in that beautiful place, when my ego just wants to concentrate on the conflict.

Is that similar with you, or do you have a practice, which helps you step-away from the chaos ?






posted on Feb, 7 2024 @ 05:19 PM
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a reply to: KnowItAllKnowNothin




Originally posted by KnowItAllKnowNothin
Thanks BCJ.
I don't know why we are having this experience, but here we are !
That was part of the consideration, for the mention of us being a species with amnesia in the OP.
It also matches the quote you added, so we're vibing on all cylinders now ! LoL !


Well, we do have a collective amnesia about our past and true history imo…much of which is covered by the work of Graham Hancock…who I’m a big fan of but the other “amnesia” or “forgetting” is done deliberately from a spiritual experiential perspective.

If you could remember how the universe was created and your previous past lives and other peoples etc… then this would just ruin your current life experience…Although even that knowledge is always there and available, even if only intuitively, for those that seek it out…whether one should even try to do this is another question entirely lol

It’s like playing a Poker game, you choose to follow the rules whereby you can only see your own cards and not your opponents cards…You intentionally limit your own perception (follow the rules) in order to play and actually enjoy the game…If you could see everyone's cards it would just completely ruin the experience itself.

This is essentially what God does i.e limits his perception (becomes the Soul/Son) in order to have this life experience. The life/consciousness is always part of the whole and choices come from our connection to the infinite…so our freewill comes from that divine connection imo…

That quote I posted is from Anais Nin; she has written a lot of deep contemplative material about the nature of the human condition…pretty incredible imo…



Originally posted by KnowItAllKnowNothin
A little bit of chaos causes me much interference, and I have a hard time sitting-in that beautiful place, when my ego just wants to concentrate on the conflict.
Is that similar with you, or do you have a practice, which helps you step-away from the chaos?


I don’t actually belong to any religion or practice lol…I do however draw inspiration from many places, such as the Bible, Gnosticism, Rosicrucianism, Budism and various literary writers…

To answer your question though, for me it’s all a question of Balance and Perception…

I quite like this quote by Henry David Thoreau, “it's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.” Meaning, how we see things is closely linked to our own perceptions and interpretations…

It’s pretty similar to another Anais Nin quote “We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are.”

Personally, I think it’s fine to look at the difficult things in life head on…realize it’s bad or wrong etc but at the same time not get emotionally caught up in it, to the point where we lose ourselves…

I hope that helps…

edit on 7-2-2024 by BatCaveJoe because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2024 @ 01:16 AM
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edit on 2/8/2024 by yeahright because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2024 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: BatCaveJoe

Thanks CatJaveBoe.

I like to ponder the idea, that our essence is something we can barely imagine, and that we choose to be reduced into this bio-suits, and all of their inherent limitations.

God playing a video-game, where the in-game character, Mario, has no concept of having played millions of instances of the game before.

But it's a test, and Mario still has to make the right decisions in every level of the game, to get to the next level.

Remember me ?
It's-a me : Mario !! LoL !!

Mario has no clue as to whom may be pulling the strings, or pushing the buttons,
nor even awareness of strings and buttons.

But we have this sense, that there may be strings and/or buttons.
We somehow sense that this is a limited hangout, like the paraphrased quote from Hoffman in the OP.

So that " forgetting " was included in my thoughts while writing the OP, but I'm not so great at splainin.

I'm not very good at following rules, so I tend to push-up against the things that others might declare as walls, boundaries, laws, limitations, etc ...

Sometimes the walls give, so I learned that there is some element of " holding-back " here also.
Perhaps that's a part of the experience, like the darker steps in the classic hero's journey.

On perception : a frog fell into a well. He tried, but couldn't jump-out.
Soon, many forest critter gathered around the top of the well.
They all started yelling at him : " Stop jumping. It's no use. You'll just exhaust yourself, and die quicker.
Just rest. "
But the frog kept on trying to jump-out, as the critters yelled more and louder at him.

Finally : he made it, and jumped-out.
One critter asked him : " why did you keep trying, when we were all telling you to give-up ? "
The frog said : " what ? "
" Why did you never give-up ? "
" What ? "
Then his friend shows-up, and communicates with him
The frog says : " Sorry. I'm deaf, and I thought you were all yelling at me to encourage me to jump higher ! "

Budism is sometimes practiced here on Saturday nights, with some Buds, some buds, and some bud ... LoL !!

Now the two quotes you offered, seems to fit very well in with the idea that the " outer-world ", is only a reflection of our inner-world.

Even though there appears to be an undeniable material world around us, every creatures perception of it is different.
There are flocks of birds, rats, ants, geese, and bunches of other critters, living in this city environment, that never interact with humans. They are feet away from us, yet still wild.

There is a bird's nest, right under the air-conditioner, literally 10 inches away from my head.
For years now, generations of tweety birds have been born there.
If you consider our energetic bodies, where there is a toroidal field in and around us : then those critters and us are in intersecting vibratory fields. ( Some call the auric field, or perhaps ethereal body. )

I once lived in a real dive appartement building, full of hookers are dope-dealers. My bed was next to a paper-thin wall, and the neighbor's bed was on the same wall, so we were inches apart. I could hear him snoring like he was on the couch next to me LoL !!

These things affect our perception, yet we're not sure how.

Perhaps none of us see the world in the same way ?

Some say that all that we perceive, is a part of the grand-design, and is a potential lesson, or explanation for us, and our contemplations.

Sometimes you turn-on the radio, and the song, or what somebody is discussing, is directly relatable to something you were pondering.

I may not be great at explaining it all, but here, there is a sense somehow, some aspect of our experience in the outside-world, is totally relative to our internal contemplations.

Have you ever looked at a tree, until it became something else, or it melted into nothingness ?


Wishing you Peace, Love, and blessings.




posted on Feb, 9 2024 @ 02:27 PM
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a reply to: glend

Hi Good-Glend.

I hope you don't mind me trying to drag you back into this thread, but I always enjoy reading your offerings.
( He-he : sounds like manipulation, but maybe it's okay to compliment friends sometimes. Don't know. )

Want to see if you have any thoughts on this vid, and am interested in anyone reading, viewing, or watching to express their ideas as well.

I unfortunately do not see this guy as totally illuminated, so I don't buy all he's selling.
" But he's offering free vids on froobetoobe. "
Yeah : while advertising his consulting business, for a mere $110.00/hour.

Why Are We Scared Of Our God Power And Play Small? by Spiritual Renaissance.



Highlights :

I'm not able to see-through people, like he is mentioning at the beginning. Well, maybe a tiny bit.
He says : God and I are a majority, and this has to be your slogan.
God is incarnated as you, and playing, as you.
Animals reflect a more pure state, with no mind there. Just natural.
He speaks of the connection being so intense, that yogis, and others, retire from society. It's too much.
We are not here to save, or enlighten others.
Others are stuck in the ego state, and if they are to awaken, then it will happen when it happens.
The God connection is too-much for most of us, so we seek distractions, and indulge in addictions.
Put all of your relationships on the line, if they are causing you to compromise the God connection.
At 9:54, a little mouse scurries in the area behind his left upper-arm.
On review, that mouse is there moving, for much of the earlier vid.
When the God energy comes : be grateful for that, and honor that.
Don't ignore it, or write it off.
We get this flow of some kind of cosmic current, then we immediately try to distract ourselves from it.
Themes of self-sabotage run through the vid.
Then he is selling his online Satsang gatherings.

He has another vid called : " God Is Playing As You In The Most Advanced 3D Game Ever Created! "

Many folks thinking about similar things.
Velly interesting ... LoL !!







Love and blessings for you, and all.




posted on Feb, 9 2024 @ 07:02 PM
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a reply to: KnowItAllKnowNothin



Originally posted by KnowItAllKnowNothin
Thanks CatJaveBoe.


Wow... Auto correct is getting pretty creative lol



Originally posted by KnowItAllKnowNothin
But we have this sense, that there may be strings and/or buttons.
We somehow sense that this is a limited hangout, like the paraphrased quote from Hoffman in the OP.

So that " forgetting " was included in my thoughts while writing the OP, but I'm not so great at splainin.

I'm not very good at following rules, so I tend to push-up against the things that others might declare as walls, boundaries, laws, limitations, etc ...

Sometimes the walls give, so I learned that there is some element of " holding-back " here also. Perhaps that's a part of the experience, like the darker steps in the classic hero's journey.


You’re explaining things pretty well so far imo…

I think in regards to rules or boundaries…some rules are beneficial for us while others might be wrong or incorrect and only hinder out development etc again it’s all a question of perception. So take for example the rule, ”thou shall not kill”…this is beneficial for us and everyone else around us. Other rules or boundaries might be viewed as wrong or right and that’s where freewill comes into play.

From what I can remember about Carl Jung’s “Hero's Journey” it was all about growing through adversity, by making difficult decisions and facing our shadow selves etc…With the ultimate goal to become a better person in the end. It’s a very similar parallel to the prodigal son story, whereby one realizes the choices they’ve made are just bad and they need to turn that ship around and head back home…



Originally posted by KnowItAllKnowNothin
I once lived in a real dive appartement building, full of hookers are dope-dealers. My bed was next to a paper-thin wall, and the neighbor's bed was on the same wall, so we were inches apart. I could hear him snoring like he was on the couch next to me LoL !!

These things affect our perception, yet we're not sure how.

Perhaps none of us see the world in the same way ?


Just to clarify my last post about balance and perception. What I mean is that one must be very balanced internally to try to perceive something correctly, because we tend to bring our bias into any situation that we encounter etc…we just can’t help ourselves, as it’s partly human nature. Of course, some bias may be good and some may be bad; but again, it’s all a question of perception which is tied in with our experience, judgement and understanding.

For example, various people see two people fighting in the street…they all see the same event but may all perceive it totally differently. One person may know the 2 people involved and know (or think) they are just playing around. Another person might think there is a riot taking place (imagination running wild etc) Another viewer may think, “this is hilarious they don’t even know any Jujitsu” lol…and the list goes on…



Originally posted by KnowItAllKnowNothin
Sometimes you turn-on the radio, and the song, or what somebody is discussing, is directly relatable to something you were pondering.

I may not be great at explaining it all, but here, there is a sense somehow, some aspect of our experience in the outside-world, is totally relative to our internal contemplations.


Yeah, I know what you mean, and it sounds all cleché and woowoo to most people out there…but there are times when it feels that intuitively there is a guiding “force” that is helping us to find some truth or to take a new unexpected pathway.



Originally posted by KnowItAllKnowNothin
Have you ever looked at a tree, until it became something else, or it melted into nothingness ?


I once had a strange dream, where I saw 3 trees and they all turned into Dryads (tree spirits) and gave me a hug lol but to answer your question…no that’s never happened to me before ! lol



posted on Feb, 10 2024 @ 06:12 PM
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a reply to: KnowItAllKnowNothin

Thank you KnowItAllKnowNothin. Not sure if the man has experienced anything spiritual. He may be disillusioned by his own mind. Or purposely trying to parrot knowledge from others for personal profit. Its a problem. Many want to improve their spirituality. Trying to seek guidance from others. But there are so many trying to sell snake oil out there. How does one tell the difference???

The guy in the video states that the energy is intense. But from my experiences, there is nothing intense about what he labels "energy" at all. Its incredible subtle. That is why yogis move to a more quite environment. So they more easily able to perceive those very subtle messages from the greater consciousness. But a problem arises when they leave that environment. They are again immersed into a noisier environment. In which the advances they made are easily lost. I feel its perhaps better to train in the louder environment to begin with. Try become the eye at the center of that storm. In which we appear normal from the perspective of others whilst secretly focusing on spiritual pursuits within.

"We get this flow of some kind of cosmic current, then we immediately try to distract ourselves from it."

He might be referring to Anahata Nada (unstruck sound). A noise one audibly hears from the sahasrara chakra. Its like a rope from above that one tries to hold onto by focusing our awareness on that sound. A book called "The Law of Attention, Nada Yoga and the Way of Inner Vigilance by Edward Salim Michael" can help people understand how to correctly deal with what he labels "cosmic energy".

"We are not here to save, or enlighten others."

If we want to awaken to save ourselves. Aren't we are merely promoting our own egoism. That itself being the wall of segmentation between our local and greater consciousness. So therein exists a catch 22.

We cannot save ourselves by wanting to attain enlightenment. We can only attain enlightenment by surrendering that self to the whole. Wanting to sacrifice that self (Buddhism Bodhicitta, Jesus crucifixion etc) to help all others achieve salvation from their pain. If we be the last to pass the gate then let that be so.

Its perhaps important to note that the ego itself can achieve limited lets call them occult powers. That can easily fool people that they going down the right path. But those powers will always result in increased pain. So we need to to be constantly on guard as to why we desire things. Are those desires to reward our ego self. Or are those desires purely to help others escape their pain. One has to be truly honest to themselves in this regard.

Much Love.



posted on Feb, 12 2024 @ 04:13 PM
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a reply to: BatCaveJoe

Thanks Joseph-of-the-Cave-of-a-Thousand-Bats.
( Any Louisville-Sluggers in there ? )

Some of the boundaries are good for all, others are imposed on us, and only good for the would-be imposers.
The later are the ones that give, when tested.
( Being told to stand 6-feet apart is an interesting one. )

Yeah : Shadow was what I was trying to articulate, thanks.
There are not a lot of options to help a person investigate their shadow side.
If one is lucky enough to find a rare good psychologist perhaps, or within some men's groups.
Otherwise : we're on our own.

The hero must find the strength within, and the prodigal-son must find the humility within.
They may get some help, but it is their journey to discover within themselves.

Some of the podcasters I occasionally catch, mention about how our intuition speaks to us very subtly, quietly, and indirectly. The gross hits us in the face, like being slapped with a fish. We all can see the gross.
The subtle is not easy, and sometimes feel that I'm disconnected from the subtle, and missing the cues.

Have you looked at trees, and clouds, from both sides now ?



But something's lost : but something's gained ...




posted on Feb, 12 2024 @ 05:13 PM
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a reply to: glend

Zactly buddy : how to tell the difference ?
I sit in that place of not knowing other's intentions.

He is doing his own thing, and so : good for him, to follow his path, as it may be.

Sometimes it's nice to feel that someone like him, does really get a large part of it though.

Maybe he only like 80% gets it, and I only 80% get-it, and I only resonate with 80% of his message ?

If there's no exterior, absolute Truth : then 80% ain't bad !

I agree about the subtlety, but perhaps, there are some, that can ride a vibe differently, and feel more intense in those sort of inner-messaging, meditating times ?

If I only get-it at 80%, and another gets-it at 95% : how could I tell ?
It's beyond me.
I didn't mean to get stuck on percentages.
They're just pointers, towards concepts beyond them.

I like your eye-of-the-hurricane concept.
It reminds me of the : " enter-Zen-through-the-waterfall " metaphor, that was posted here a few years ago.

Your comments on enlightenment, and desires, bely noetic wisdom.
That which can only be learned for oneself, not taught.
If only one person could come to that level of understanding per day, then that is beautiful !

Blessings and Love !




posted on Feb, 13 2024 @ 02:20 PM
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a reply to: KnowItAllKnowNothin




Originally posted by KnowItAllKnowNothin
Thanks Joseph-of-the-Cave-of-a-Thousand-Bats.
( Any Louisville-Sluggers in there ? )


It’s more of a Bat-Mans Bat cave…where deep investigations into conspiracies and all things spiritual are investigated…It’s a meditative/contemplative place, where truth is sought out; Plato himself would be proud lol



Originally posted by KnowItAllKnowNothin
The hero must find the strength within, and the prodigal-son must find the humility within.
They may get some help, but it is their journey to discover within themselves.


Both are similar in the sense that they both realize something is wrong or something is missing etc…so they begin that inner search for that divine aspect within themselves…The Hero discovers his higher true self and the prodigal son returns back to the Father within…



Originally posted by KnowItAllKnowNothin
Some of the podcasters I occasionally catch, mention about how our intuition speaks to us very subtly, quietly, and indirectly. The gross hits us in the face, like being slapped with a fish. We all can see the gross.
The subtle is not easy, and sometimes feel that I'm disconnected from the subtle, and missing the cues.


Yeah, I would say the same thing that “our intuition speaks to us very subtly, and quietly.”

A good method I find is to contemplate a question, then look into various answers to it, but don’t decide on any specific answer…don’t force an answer…just contemplate it…I find that over time the answer can just arrive in a very unexpected manner.



Originally posted by KnowItAllKnowNothin
Have you looked at trees, and clouds, from both sides now?


There is generally always 2 sides to things…that’s how freewill remains intact lol



Originally posted by KnowItAllKnowNothin
But something's lost: but something's gained…


Absolutely…it’s like anything new that comes into ones life…some things will be discarded, to be replaced by new skills and new ways of thinking.








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