How can atheism have morality?

originally posted by: Annee

But self-righteous god believers will take law into their own hands against those who disagree with their belief.

Maybe, but what has happened in human history when religion was absent? Many of the religious evil events we can look back on were where humans corrupted religion into something for personal gains or power. We can look at the Catholic church of days old and it was purely human manipulation that ended up not being a religion, and in name only.

originally posted by: daskakik

I don't know, the holocaust was mainly a religious thing.

Even when communists killed religious people just for being religious, that is a religious thing.

Communists killed everyone...

What religion was Hilter following? He just thought the Jews were a power he needed to wipe out. Communists had no religion as they actually abolished it. Russia... what 80 million dead... China 100+ million...Pol Pak 4 million in a few years. Genghis Khan... When religion was absent humans really went deep down the path of evil...

originally posted by: daskakik

I will say that those would be examples of atheists being religious about their atheism but it isn't like atheism has a requirement to want to kill others because they go to church.

With atheists what morals do they follow? How many genocides were religiously based? It isn't a want to kill others, it is nothing preventing from killing others...

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Annee

But self-righteous god believers will take law into their own hands against those who disagree with their belief.

Maybe, but what has happened in human history when religion was absent? Many of the religious evil events we can look back on were where humans corrupted religion into something for personal gains or power. We can look at the Catholic church of days old and it was purely human manipulation that ended up not being a religion, and in name only.

You are making excuses.

How is that any different than humans manipulating atheism?

a reply to: Xtrozero
I get what you are saying, communists killed everyone that didn't share their beliefs, not religious per se, but religious about that belief.

I don't know what religion Hitler was but the movement had a christian element to the propaganda the party put out. And hating on a group because of their religion is religious.

You say "when religion was absent humans really went deep down the path of evil", WWI and WWII had almost 30 M deaths long after formal religion had taken root.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Xtrozero

I don't know what religion Hitler was but the movement had a christian element to the propaganda the party put out. And hating on a group because of their religion is religious.

Hitler claimed to be Catholic.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
With atheists what morals do they follow?

The law.

How many genocides were religiously based? It isn't a want to kill others, it is nothing preventing from killing others...

Pretty sure that in the case of the shiite and sunni, or israelis and palestinians it is a want to kill others for religious reasons.

a reply to: watchitburn

.....but are still good anti-communist people.

Possibly off-topic and I apologise if someone have asked this before but do you believe there are good communist people?

Personally I'm Agnostic, I think the question of God's existence is pretty much an irrelevant point when it comes to my day to day life and existence.
I don't need a set of man written laws and rules to tell me what is right or wrong - I have my own personal moral code that I try to stick to.
Some times I fail, because I am human.

I never seek to harm anyone who hasn't harmed me, my family or friends.
I never seek to gain advantage or gain from others.
I seek to help others whenever I can.
I always try to treat others with the respect and courtesy I like to receive from them.

I can be a vengeful and nasty bastard at times.

I hate to sound flippant and arrogant by saying its not hard, because it is hard at times......but its not hard to understand.

Its my experience of the world and people that there are good and bad everywhere, from all walks of life and of every race and creed under the sun.

Some people choose to put their faith in God, that's their choice.
Don't make the assumption that because I don't that I'm a bad or immoral person.

a reply to: Freeborn

Well said Freeborn. We do good because we are born with empathy and we care.

"religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich".. That should tell you something..
?a reply to: neoholographicpart2

a reply to: midicon
I think that morality arrived before religion

i also think that a moral compass of sorts maybe some how have to do with your DNA
as it would benefit a lifeform to have morals to enable better interactions with others of the same species or other species
and therefore increase the chances of passing on genetic information to the next generation through increased chance of survival

im sure id heard a similar argument before but from an anarchist perspective that morals can lead one to defer to authority
but you dont need to defer to authority in order to be a good person or create a just society
just like you dont need to believe in a deity in order to have morals

a reply to: sapien1982

The thing is nature does not entertain any sort of moral delusions, it's just us.

Take a dog for instance, your dog loves you and is the most loyal companion a man can have.

But die in a room with one left unattended, and your best friend will eat your corpse, without thinking twice.

Survival of the fittest is the colour of the day for the majority of the rest of the animals on the planet.

I think its a safe bet to say that morality is a direct result of our intelligence directly linked with humanity's ability to empathize with others.

a reply to: andy06shake

Aye but i think its definitely hard coded into our DNA as part of our survival
like you say its linked to our intelligence so it must be a part of that as intelligence is definitely hard coded into our DNA
and its only when someones brain isnt working correctly as in a psycopath or sociopath do they appear to lack morals
any other humans that arent mentally afflicted its because they choose to ignore their moral compass and do wrong things probably because to them it will help their survival.

I just watched that movie about the people surviving the plane crash in the andes
I mean they know its morally wrong to eat a human but when you are faced with a survival choice then
you just have to ignore your morals and eat the dead human flesh.

a reply to: sapien1982



Apparently, our intelligence is believed to be influenced by a combination of genetic and environmental factors.

I would eat people if I was hungry enough sapien1982.

So would the majority of us whether or not we care to recognise or admit it.

Morals are one thing but they are superseded by our instinct to survive which does indeed seem to be hard-coded into our DNA.

originally posted by: Annee

You are making excuses.

How is that any different than humans manipulating atheism?

As I said, humans are much worse without religion. Instead of having fundamentals that evolved over a long period, it is typically the morals, or lack of, of the few in power that typically are based on a whim of what they personally want. The train gets off the track and there is no moral compass to get it back on. This is why when we look throughout history when we were at our worst was during times that lacked religion.

originally posted by: daskakik
The law

That is funny...

Pretty sure that in the case of the shiite and sunni, or israelis and palestinians it is a want to kill others for religious reasons.

Are 1.2 billion doing it? Do we see 100 million dead? As I said many times, humans in general are rather wicked animals by our underlying nature.

a reply to: Xtrozero

As I said, humans are much worse without religion.

Which one through?

Because they are not all screaming from the same hymn sheet or anything reminiscent of the sort.

Which means they cannot all be correct.

Or more than likely, are all equally mere speculation, as to the true nature of a creator if there is such a thing.

Meaning the majority of them, or all of them are false.

So is it really desirable that more than 80% of the people on Earth who choose to subscribe to one religious ideology or another do so if indeed the majority or all of them are faulty at best?

That is a hell of a white lie to swallow by my guess at least for the majority.

originally posted by: daskakik

You say "when religion was absent humans really went deep down the path of evil", WWI and WWII had almost 30 M deaths long after formal religion had taken root.

Those were non-religious events. So what morals was Hilter following, or Russia that abolished religion? Hilter wasn't killing Jews because of their religion, it was their race he was trying to wipe out as he saw them as a threat.

originally posted by: Annee
Hitler claimed to be Catholic.

He sure didn't follow any of it... lol

originally posted by: andy06shake

Which one through?

Because they are not all screaming from the same hymn sheet or anything reminiscent of the sort.

Which means they cannot all be correct.

It isn't about whether which God is real or not. As I said, I'm not religious. It's about morals that stand the test of time. It is also about the motivation to follow those morals. How many non-religious people here have read Kant even once, how about 20 times highlighting every passage, memorizing it.... see my point...

I forget who said it but there is a remark that reads, if there was something better than what we have we would already know about it and be using it. Something doesn't stand the test of time if there is something better.