How can atheism have morality?

originally posted by: daskakik
ETA: Since we are on the subject of jesus, it is obvious that your claim that you are talking about some generic "apex creator" in another thread was just to hide your religious zealotry.

Yeah I believe Jesus is the apex Creator, I never hid that fact from anyone.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: daskakik
ETA: Since we are on the subject of jesus, it is obvious that your claim that you are talking about some generic "apex creator" in another thread was just to hide your religious zealotry.

Yeah I believe Jesus is the apex Creator, I never hid that fact from anyone.

So you are believing that Jesus existed? What are the historical facts for his existence?

And even if was a real historical person what is the evidence he is the son of God who is the creator of the universe.

Let me help you.
There is none.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: daskakik
Why would it shock me, because you think it is such a big point? That shows your bias, not mine.

Thermodynamic barriers are very telling regarding the plausibility of life coming from non-life...

Still your argument is that amino acid formation has natural causes and amino acid polymerization has supernatural causes.

What a great argument you have!

originally posted by: Venkuish1
Still your argument is that amino acid formation has natural causes and amino acid polymerization has supernatural causes.

What a great argument you have!

Nope, amino acid polymerization is catalyzed by biological catalysts in biological organisms. Amino acid formation can occur without enzymatic catalysis

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: cooperton
The thermodynamic unfavorability of amino acid polymerization is very telling. If this doesn't shock you then I think it's due to bias.

Why would it shock me, because you think it is such a big point? That shows your bias, not mine.

If someone comes as an ambassador from the higher dimensions with a better philosophy than Jesus, I would be astonished.

Again, your bias.

ETA: Since we are on the subject of jesus, it is obvious that your claim that you are talking about some generic "apex creator" in another thread was just to hide your religious zealotry.

Perhaps you need to concentrate to the latest claims made by the poster you are replying to.

Amino acid formation ✓
Amino acid polymerization ×

One of them seems to have supernatural causes.

Ah! Remember that virus evolution is not an example of evolution as viruses are small...

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Venkuish1
Still your argument is that amino acid formation has natural causes and amino acid polymerization has supernatural causes.

What a great argument you have!

Nope, amino acid polymerization is catalyzed by biological catalysts in biological organisms. Amino acid formation can occur without enzymatic catalysis

Nope you are arguing for the existence of a supernatural force in amino acid polymerization. And you did the same when discussing dark matter without knowing what dark matter is it even the basic universal law of gravitation

originally posted by: Phantom42338
a reply to: Venkuish1

Cooperton is not a scientist. He has no credentials. Has never been in a lab. Knows nothing about polymerization or any other chemical reaction. Information he picks up from the internet is simply reconfigured to fit his narrative.
He has never posted one iota of evidence, no laboratory results, no research, no nothing. Just high volume rhetoric which is incoherent.

More claims in this page.

But the core argument is that amino acid polymerization has supernatural causes.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
But then where did the laws come from?

From people. I know you want to say religion but that was what I said in the post you said you refused to read. Man created religion, so the original source will always be man.

I don't understand this statement. I would say those lacking morals in big cities are more non-religious than religious.

That is why I mentioned rap lyrics earlier on. They believe in god but they also are part of a gang.

Just like old school mobsters went to church, got married in church and made sure their kids were baptized and had their first communion.

The number of believers might be lower today but there is still a lot.

a reply to: cooperton

I get all that and don't neccessarily disagree. But I feel you're shifting a little.

By all means, put Nazis six feet deep.

Should we then take their wives as our own?

But at any rate. Part of the argument is where morality comes from. The point I'm trying to make with bringing up some of that stuff from the Old Testement is to show that, in my opinion, morals did not come from God.

Are the morals "of the time" (conquering nations taking their defeted enemies wives), shaped and guided by the people and cultures over time, or are they from a divine source of love and mercy?

Is it love thy neighbor as thyself, unless ___?
Is it, turn the other cheek, unless ___?
Is it, treat others the way you want to be treated, unless___?

I'd like to ask you a hypothetical, in all seriousness. I really am interested in your honest answer, whatever it may be.

If you, Coop, felt that beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the Lord your God, was calling upon you to kill your neighbor, would you do it?

originally posted by: Venkuish1

So you are believing that Jesus existed? What are the historical facts for his existence?

It's 2024 AD because it is that many years since he came. Our entire calendar is based around Him lol.

originally posted by: cooperton
Yeah I believe Jesus is the apex Creator, I never hid that fact from anyone.

Actually you said he was the firstborn of the apex creator.

And that he built a bridge between the worlds
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I think many people throughout time and space have praised the Most High God, the apex Creator. Not just Israelites and Christians have properly held this Being in high regard.

Christ was the one who formed the bridge between the worlds, allowing souls to Cross or Passover into the higher dimensions of existence.

I called you out then because you started saying the gods of other people might have been the same being but then go right back to bible thumping.

originally posted by: Venkuish1
Ah! Remember that virus evolution is not an example of evolution as viruses are small...

I told you he wasn't going to accept that back on page 59.

It is same thing over and over with ol' coop.

a reply to: cooperton

I meant radiometric. Funny word to slip on.

But let's stop you now, before you do your thing.

As I said. In recent volcanic deposits it was shown argon is non-existent in the rock. But there is potassium.

www.jpl.nasa.gov...

As magma forces its way up through the older granitic rock around it, bits of the granite fall into the magma. They are strongly heated and may even be partially melted. That allows the xenolith's radiogenic argon to escape, and should reset the xenolith's atomic clock to zero.

The above uses foreign rocks that fall into the magma instead of the magma itself to date the flow.

But the argon is purged just the same and dated.

So basically argon usually doesn't survive in molten rock and resets it when it crystalizes and the decay clock starts.

Like that why when we can look at the rhyolitic lava (rich in potassium) and know it was cleared of its argon when molten and know Yellowstone last erupted 70k years ago.

Especially with 22 million year volcanic rock.



Like the volcanic rock by this Cadera in Carlsbad, CA.

We know it was molten, and we know the molten rock loses its argon, so we know when that rock cooled it was all the newly crystalized parent isotope.

To fit 22 million years of K-40 decay into Ar-40 into 6000 years would require supplemental Argon-40 insertion into the crystaline lattice that is found nowhere on the surface of Earth. And can't be without an ridiculous excess of decay produced Ar-40 being present. (E.g. NOT the surface conditions surrounding an igneous extrusion)

As all atmospheric Argon 40 is a decay product of rock. Naturally occurring Argon, like from interstellar explosions, is Argon 36.

Nearly all argon in Earth's atmosphere is radiogenic argon-40, derived from the decay of potassium-40 in Earth's crust. In the universe, argon-36 is by far the most common argon isotope, as it is the most easily produced by stellar nucleosynthesis in supernovas.

So you're arguing against long term decay with a product of long term decay, in ridiculous quantities, giving the erroneous reading.

You essentially have to argue all rock was once heavily saturated under heat and pressure in a type of Argon not observed in interstellar space.

So earth had to have been through a high pressure argon 40 saturation cycle to make it all appear so old. All rock on earth.

You have another global flood to consider now. And any argument of initial quantities forgets molten rock DOESNT DECAY.

When molten rock cools, forming what are called igneous rocks, radioactive atoms are trapped inside. Afterwards, they decay at a predictable rate.

Pretty good with igneous rock ages. All well in excess of 6000 years.

Misclick - Editing

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: HKMarrow
Um, what. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall male virginity being highly valued in the bible.

If they expected the women to be virgins among the nation of Israel, how would the men not also be virgins until marriage? Certainly they wouldn't endorse philandering with other nations.

As far as a "doom lock"... what do you mean?

An irrevocable action that has enduring mental effects. As I said before though, there is now a purifying factor in Christ.

And it's not just ancient Israel that valued virgin girls, that idea is in more then a few religions. What's this "spiritual implication?"

Yeah true. The idea of marriage, at least in Israel, was also supposed to be a marriage of God and humankind. A birthright of transcendence into Zion Isaiah 62:1-5. This same archetype was also the foretelling of Christ as the bridegroom coming to conceive His creation

The women and girls were taken as loot. Or "booty" as the King James Bible so appropriately describes it.

Men had multiple wives and concubines (sex slaves?) And clearly, if one could find a virgin girl amongst the other nations and take her, then philandering was indeed allowed, provided that her family be killed. Obviously a man's virginity would be long gone by this point. Yet, he still values that of ANY female not past her prime.

As far as marriage as a spiritual allegory, that is for another topic, regarding enlightenment.

ETA: and what of the "enduring mental effects" of having your whole family killed, your head shaved, and made to be thier killers sex slave?

originally posted by: Venkuish1

originally posted by: Phantom42338
a reply to: Venkuish1

Cooperton is not a scientist. He has no credentials. Has never been in a lab. Knows nothing about polymerization or any other chemical reaction. Information he picks up from the internet is simply reconfigured to fit his narrative.
He has never posted one iota of evidence, no laboratory results, no research, no nothing. Just high volume rhetoric which is incoherent.

More claims in this page.

It's supernatural to him because he doesn't understand organic chemistry. The principles of polymer chemistry have been known a long time. Polymeric macromolecules make up many important natural materials. That was followed by the creation of synthetic analogs having a variety of properties. If it polymerization required supernatural intervention, that guy in the sky would be very busy. It's so ridiculous, you can't even laugh at it any more.

The simplest polymer, polyethylene, is nothing more than ..(CH2-CH2)n... That's it. Nothing supernatural about it.


But the core argument is that amino acid polymerization has supernatural causes.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: cooperton

I get all that and don't neccessarily disagree. But I feel you're shifting a little.

By all means, put Nazis six feet deep.

Should we then take their wives as our own?

If one of them refused to sleep with a nazi? Yeah they're probable a strong-ass woman

But at any rate. Part of the argument is where morality comes from. The point I'm trying to make with bringing up some of that stuff from the Old Testement is to show that, in my opinion, morals did not come from God.

I think it's part of our design, it's integrated into how we are wired.

Are the morals "of the time" (conquering nations taking their defeted enemies wives), shaped and guided by the people and cultures over time, or are they from a divine source of love and mercy?

Is it love thy neighbor as thyself, unless ___?
Is it, turn the other cheek, unless ___?
Is it, treat others the way you want to be treated, unless___?

Israelites were executing justice on aberrant tribes of people. Despite this, such blood-faring was still not 'good', David wasn't supposed to build the Temple because he had blood on his hands. This was a prophecy of Christ being a pacifist.

I'd like to ask you a hypothetical, in all seriousness. I really am interested in your honest answer, whatever it may be.

If you, Coop, felt that beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the Lord your God, was calling upon you to kill your neighbor, would you do it?

Of course not, I would know that isn't Christ. Christ specifically said to turn the other cheek to violence. Because I know Christ's philosophy, I would know that isn't Christ talking.

a reply to: Venkuish1


Sorry - hit the wrong button.

There's nothing supernatural about polymerization. The simplest polymer, polyethylene, is nothing more than
..(CH2-CH2)n... That's it. Nothing supernatural about it - unless you don't know anything about organic chemistry - which Cooperton does not. That's why he needs a supernatural guy-in-the-sky to be responsible for everything. It's ridiculous.
According to him, we wouldn't have flushing toilets without some supernatural being creating fluid dynamics.

originally posted by: HKMarrow

ETA: and what of the "enduring mental effects" of having your whole family killed, your head shaved, and made to be thier killers sex slave?

What would they do with a Nazi virgin who didn't subscribe to the Nazi ideology? Would she be super upset that her old totalitarian regime was stopped? Or would she gladly accept the people who put an end to the madness? To be married was not just a physical marriage, but a spiritual marriage, an acceptance of an ideology. Those who weren't married were still considered innocent.

It's some deep stuff.

originally posted by: Phantom42338
a reply to: Phantom42338


Sorry - hit the wrong button.

There's nothing supernatural about polymerization.

Correct, I said this before.

The simplest polymer, polyethylene, is nothing more than
..(CH2-CH2)n... That's it. Nothing supernatural about it - unless you don't know anything about organic chemistry - which Cooperton does not. That's why he needs a supernatural guy-in-the-sky to be responsible for everything. It's ridiculous.
According to him, we wouldn't have flushing toilets without some supernatural being creating fluid dynamics.

Lol what? Polyethylene isn't an amino acid polymer. Do YOU know anything about organic chemistry? I love when you get cocky enough to try to post something relevant again, and you don't even land in the same area code as the conversation.