Israeli hostages killed mistakenly in Gaza were holding white flag, official says

A soldier saw the hostages emerging tens of metres from Israeli forces in the area of Shejaiya, the official said. “They’re all without shirts and they have a stick with a white cloth on it. The soldier feels threatened and opens fire. He declares that they’re terrorists, they (forces) open fire, two are killed immediately,” said the military official. The third hostage was wounded and retreated into a nearby building where he called for help in Hebrew, the official said. “Immediately the battalion commander issues a ceasefire order, but again there’s another burst of fire towards the third figure and he also dies,” said the official. “This was against our rules of engagement,” he added.

www.theguardian.com... un

Full details are still emerging, and while it was to be expected that some of the hostages may have died in the assault, that they died trying to surrender is indicative of how intensely emotional the Israeli position is, with Israeli soldiers going so far as to ignore a command to ceasefire.

Red mist fanaticism based upon a system of consistently dehumanising the enemy? Anyone have another explanation?

originally posted by: BrucellaOrchitis
Red mist fanaticism based upon a system of consistently dehumanising the enemy? Anyone have another explanation?

Yeah ... a simple mistake made in a combat situation. Its easy to have happen. You've been in intense firefights for months with people trying to kill you, you are going to be quick on the trigger and see things as a threat more easily.

You want to talk about dehumanizing the enemy ... that's what Hamas and the Palestinians do to the Jews. ALL the Jews are considered 'the enemy'. Calling them apes and pigs, raising the children to believe that. Mass rape and mutilation. Slaughtering them. All of Hamas and most of the Palestinians calling for genocide of the Jews. THAT is 'dehumanizing'. Israel is doing nothing like that. You've got it backwards.

a reply to: FlyersFan

You won't stop with your absolute allegiance to Netanyahu!
Even if innocent Jews are killed, you will still support this man!
You care more about killing and revenge then the protection of the people of Israel.

This is what happens with situations like this - they eventually hurt the very people they purport to protect.

So exactly where will your allegiance to him going to stop? Should they start rounding up the Jews who want a cease fire? After all, according to you, anyone who does is a Hamas supporter.

originally posted by: [post=27250699]Daughter2v2[/post
You won't stop with your absolute allegiance to Netanyahu!
Even if innocent Jews are killed, you will still support this man!

I said nothing about Netanyahu. I have no idea if he is a good leader for Israel or not. I stated facts. Accidents happen in war time. Soldiers who have been in combat for months and are in survival mode are going to be quick on the trigger. It is sad and tragic but it happens. And the OP said this is evidence that the soldiers were 'dehumanizing' the Palestinians. Which is absurd. I gave examples of what dehumanizing is.

A mistake in an intensive combat situation isn't 'dehumanizing'.

Mass rape and mutilation of genitalia while committing mass murder IS dehumanizing.
ATS Thread Here

Big difference.

a reply to: BrucellaOrchitis

It follows IDF's orders from the start "shoot at everything" "shoot first don't ask questions later, or don't answer questions later".

Ruh-ro.

Wall St. Journal just posted an article claiming the 3 hostages held up a white flag while exiting a building and were shot to death anyway by IDF.

“Deep remorse” indeed….

a reply to: BrucellaOrchitis

I get so tired of the armchair quarterbacking from people whos only experience with war is playing "Call of Duty" on the video game.

Tragedies happen in war.

If the palestinians hadn't have KIDNAPPED the Israeli's in the first place, then they'd still be alive.

a reply to: BrucellaOrchitis

Red mist fanaticism based upon a system of consistently dehumanising the enemy? Anyone have another explanation?

The majority of IDF soldiers are conscripts so I think it's probably the result of amateurs doing a professionals job , a few IDF soldiers have been investigated for actions they've taken against Palestinian civilians but only those who have been filmed doing what they do.

This is a war who's aim it to kill as many people as they can and destroy as much as they can in the time they have to do that , they've already killed hostages through their bombing raids these 3 unfortunates probably won't be the last.

Tzipi Hotovely on no 2 State Solution.

The words of Hotovely must be chilling to Western leaders who bought into this charade , shame on them.

Civilians don't matter , hostages don't matter all that matters to the Zionist nutters is clearing the Palestinian territories , Civilians in the West Bank are also being murdered by IDF and the settlers (thieves) there.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Tragedies happen in war.

If you'd been in intense combat for months, with terrorists constantly shooting at you and your every step could be the last because of booby traps everywhere ... and you had to clear out tunnels that had terrorists in them trying to kill you ... you'd be in survival mode and pulling the trigger on unknown men moving in the tunnel as well. It is a natural quick reaction considering the circumstances.

Sad and tragic combat accident ... but not surprising.
Certainly not an example of 'dehumanizing' like the OP claimed.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Tragedies happen in war.

If you'd been in intense combat for months, with terrorists constantly shooting at you and your every step could be the last because of booby traps everywhere ... and you had to clear out tunnels that had terrorists in them trying to kill you ... you'd be in survival mode and pulling the trigger on unknown men moving in the tunnel as well. It is a natural quick reaction considering the circumstances.

Sad and tragic combat accident ... but not surprising.
Certainly not an example of 'dehumanizing' like the OP claimed.

The only dehumanizing going on is the harsh criticism of Israel and what the palestinians and their supporters are doing to Jews.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Running further south towards Egypt to escape bombing?

a reply to: BrucellaOrchitis

The dehumanization has been going on between both sides for a very long time and the hostages were never a consideration for Netanyahu, his agenda is retaining power and ego based.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
Yeah ... a simple mistake made in a combat situation. Its easy to have happen. You've been in intense firefights for months with people trying to kill you, you are going to be quick on the trigger and see things as a threat more easily.

Hmm...a simple mistake? It's easy to happen?

Just what I would expect from former US military personnel, accidental and collateral damage are the core of your vocabulary. Predictable as ever Flyers Fan.

They were half naked and carrying a white flag FFS.

It's not understandable, it is gross incompetence.

a reply to: quintessentone

Netanyahu was told by the Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson that he would be the last Prime Minister of Israel and he will hand the scepter to the Messiah.

He is acting the fanatic.

No matter what side you take, the one and only truth is that war is hell.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
I get so tired of the armchair quarterbacking from people whos only experience with war is playing "Call of Duty" on the video game.

Do you know what I get tired of DB Cowboy? Those that join the military under the delusion that they are actually serving the interests of the people who pay their wages.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Tragedies happen in war.

War is the tragedy that happens. Three men, no shirts, carrying a white flag and they immediately shout terrorist. I don't think people who can't behave in a rational manner and use judgement to assess a situation where civilians and hostages may be in the vicinity should be carrying around a weapon. Accidents don't just happen.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
If the palestinians hadn't have KIDNAPPED the Israeli's in the first place, then they'd still be alive.

This is not what this thread is about, this about the professionalism and competency of Israeli forces in Gaza. There are plenty of other threads if you want to keep repeating your signature mantra.

a reply to: BrucellaOrchitis

Oh I get it.

Israeli's have to be perfect 100% of the time, piss sunshine and rainbows and only use harsh language.

Do you still smell your hubris in your ivory tower?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: BrucellaOrchitis

Oh I get it.

Israeli's have to be perfect 100% of the time, piss sunshine and rainbows and only use harsh language.

Do you still smell your hubris in your ivory tower?

Or in addition to their 'shoot at everything' they also have orders to 'take no prisoners'?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Oh I get it.

Nah, you don't. Not even close.

Both side have committed atrocities. I have absolutely no difficulty in seeing that.

Some of us don't have a side or consider this a debate where we have to stick to that side like our lives depend upon it. You seemingly do. I assume it's your programming but don't really care, I simply classify you in my dull pile. But carry on, I think others find you amusing which has the added benefit of saving me time on the sift.

originally posted by: quintessentone
The dehumanization has been going on between both sides for a very long time and the hostages were never a consideration for Netanyahu, his agenda is retaining power and ego based.

I found this interesting...

Hirschhorn said that in turn has had an important impact on Israeli politics with American settlers serving in key roles including chief of staff to prime ministers and top aides to members of the Israeli parliament.

“As much of Israeli politics has become increasingly Americanised, you see these figures making very significant appearances. So they certainly have an impact on Israeli domestic policy even if it’s not always as visible to everyone.”

www.theguardian.com...

I wonder, combined with the introduction of laws in the US that effectively criminalise as antisemitism any criticism of the state of Israeli what the end game of this could be other than the eradication of Palestinians?