Italian Health Minister Under Investigation for Murder for Concealing COVID-19 Vaccine Deaths

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: SteamyAmerican

Every suicide, motor death, and cancer victim was relegated to be killed off by Covid.

So said the medical industry.

Nice try though.

If you re-read my post, I was talking about ATS. we had a couple of posters, posting daily and when you checked the story posted some of the people had died from gunshots and the like, and others who were long term cancer sufferers, one had even drowned. They would post these long list of stories from around the web and obviously hadn't checked them or even read them.

Whataboutism in a few words.

a reply to: Gradcrop

I see you have nothing to add other than to display that chip on your shoulder.
I see you don't understand the term Whataboutism either?

You should maybe try a search. The threads were rediculous, a long list imported from a website of "deaths" from vaccination which were clearly not.
We also had a frequent poster who claimed 20-25% of the worlds population was going to die from the vaccine. I don't recall that happening, do you?

My post....

We had people on here claiming the vaccine was going to kill 20+ percent of the worlds population or more. has that happened? Every suicide, motor accident and cancer death was gleefully posted to here as vaccine death by one or two posters.

edit on 14-12-2023 by Kurokage because: (no reason given)

a reply to: Kurokage

Don’t need to. Thanks though.

Memory of the incessant coercion campaign will serve me just fine for the rest of life.

Oh.

And dancing nurses too exhausted to perform their jobs.

originally posted by: SteamyAmerican
a reply to: Kurokage

Don’t need to. Thanks though.

Memory of the incessant coercion campaign will serve me just fine for the rest of life.

Oh.

And dancing nurses too exhausted to perform their jobs.

And the memory of people coughing and trying to shout "I'm dying" from covid on wards.

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: ksihkahe

That's where your wrong.

I'm glad that out of all that the only thing you found me to be wrong about was a bunch of crap that actually has nothing to do with me. That you have grossly misrepresented what I was doing for three years of COVID is no surprise. Your political tribe's belief system needs to dehumanize dissenters, which allows you to see anybody that doesn't agree with you as a monolithic group of ignorant subhumans that need not be considered individuals. Or afforded the rights of free movement, medical autonomy, or informed consent.

I, on the other hand, remember who said what... because you all are very good at romanticizing your past behaviors. If I forget, then I go look. It's a small courtesy not to make things up that didn't happen and accuse people of them when they weren't involved. What's weird is that you seem irate that I have pointed out something that did actually happen, and respond by making things up about me that didn't.

But you didn't see anything wrong with all the very real and significant problems I pointed out with the vaccines and the government response to COVID, which is great. You didn't say you disagree with any of that because then there may be data involved, which is inconvenient for you.

I was there when you were "saying to wait for more data" and it looked a lot like you screeching about anti-vaxxers, targeting some for persistent harassment with a group of others, and derailing anybody that tried to have a discussion on it.

I'm here now, you can refute anything about COVID and vaccines that I said. Instead you choose to clutch pearls. You act victimized for somebody else that is too scared of words on the Internet to explain why they're distorting facts in an effort to deceive and discredit members here.

It's not hard to stop lying. It's not an unreasonable expectation that somebody stop doing it when pointed out the first time, or second, or 10th. Not just on ATS, but as a human in a functioning society. If it's not a lie they can easily show the data they're using. I can guarantee my data won't be favorable to them. I could always just do a nice thread on that and the next time they tell a lie about it I can refer them to the thread, which you will all avoid like the plague.

If you don't like what I'm saying now, you must have completely forgotten how much you all hated it when I was posting more data and actual science... before the tantrums and derailing forced every thread into childish bickering "No-U". I welcome a return to science and data, but you may want to ask the local vaccine experts how they feel about that. Seems like they are having trouble coming up with data on a single claim they made and repeated several times across many threads. If you haven't noticed the vaccine side of the debate is currently the one trying to keep data from public view, which you all probably should have guessed was a really bad sign three years ago.

a reply to: ksihkahe

Hahahaha, I see you won't admit to accusing me of being on the side of big pharma when I said I was waiting for more concreate info other than people with a grudge releasing books and websites or people posting rediculous stories about vaccination death by drowning or gunshot.
The data still isn't as bad as most of you tried to make out at the time. I see you're still trying to 'label' me just like before. After more evidence came out, how many threads did you see me post in? None! But you still make the same accusations like a stuck record.
As you said "it's not hard to stop lying"

No protection against death - Dr. John Campbell


Study - LINK

Austria nationwide retrospective observational study. 1 November to 31 December 2022 Primarily comparing individuals with four versus three vaccine doses. Whole population data. Results 3,986,312 previously infected individuals 281,291 (7,1%) had four vaccinations at baseline 1,545,242 (38.8%) had three vaccinations at baseline We recorded 69 COVID-19 deaths 89,056 SARS-CoV-2 infections The majority of COVID-19 deaths and a significant proportion of all-cause deaths occurred in nursing home residents Relative vaccine effectiveness (rVE) for four versus three vaccine doses -24% against COVID-19 deaths 17% against SARS-CoV-2 infections. Protection against infection rapidly diminished over time, and infection risk with four vaccinations was higher during extended follow-up until June 2023. Adjusted HR for all-cause mortality for four versus three vaccinations was 0.79. That is people with a 4th dose were only 79% as likely to die (Suggesting healthy vaccinee bias, i.e. healthier persons received more vaccine doses)

originally posted by: tarantulabite1
No protection against death - Dr. John Campbell

Study - LINK

Austria nationwide retrospective observational study. 1 November to 31 December 2022 Primarily comparing individuals with four versus three vaccine doses. Whole population data. Results 3,986,312 previously infected individuals 281,291 (7,1%) had four vaccinations at baseline 1,545,242 (38.8%) had three vaccinations at baseline We recorded 69 COVID-19 deaths 89,056 SARS-CoV-2 infections The majority of COVID-19 deaths and a significant proportion of all-cause deaths occurred in nursing home residents Relative vaccine effectiveness (rVE) for four versus three vaccine doses -24% against COVID-19 deaths 17% against SARS-CoV-2 infections. Protection against infection rapidly diminished over time, and infection risk with four vaccinations was higher during extended follow-up until June 2023. Adjusted HR for all-cause mortality for four versus three vaccinations was 0.79. That is people with a 4th dose were only 79% as likely to die (Suggesting healthy vaccinee bias, i.e. healthier persons received more vaccine doses)

These vaccines cannot protect against transmission and infection and this was already known from the beginning.

originally posted by: TheMichiganSwampBuck

originally posted by: ksihkahe

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Gradcrop

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Gradcrop

Will they also be investigating the COVID-19 deniers and super-spreaders who refused to take actions against the disease and encouraged others to do likewise?

You seem to be a vaccine apologist who refuses to admit that these vaccines have caused a range of serious adverse reactions and deaths following vaccine mandates, lies and propaganda, by the mainstream media that pushed the government narratives.

Nobody will be investigating those who refused to get 'vaccinated' and refused to peddle the government narratives and dogma. They are on the right side of history and haven't committed any crimes.

I suppose that the court case will come down to a comparison between the numbers saved by the immunizations, and the numbers harmed by the immunizations.

No, the court case will come down to violating law and how much money the pharmaceutical industry and their many proxies have poured into the media and government services of Italy.

Just because a bunch of morons believe more lies about a gorillion people being saved from vaccines that don't prevent illness or transmission, from proven liars... like you... doesn't mean that laws were not violated.

Why anybody would listen to you after you recently quintupled down on lying with the claim that Ivermectin, salt, and sugar are more harmful than COVID vaccines I can't guess. You should lead every post with that utter nonsense so people can decide how credible you are.

But just in case anyone reading is new... this poster is spreading false information in other threads and has been posting misleading and false information for years. They literally have never deviated from what the pharmaceutical influencers have propagated, as they were paid handsomely to do. They have offered not a single criticism of the video evidence of the Pfizer CEO lying to the public about transmission. They have not condemned the officials they sourced for their facts admitting to lying about transmission to justify the premise of segregating society and to continue denying medical treatment to unvaccinated individuals. They lied to better trick the population into taking a vaccine that they also refused to give you transparent informed consent for. This poster is on their side... but they say we're the dangerous ones.

They don't care about truth. They care about a political narratives. There can be no real discussion because there can be no back and forth, no admission of error... only the narrative. They believe that you are all so dumb and ignorant that after telling lies for three years you will be shamed into not believing the facts they desperately tried to censor and lied to you about. All with the end goal of having you take a novel therapy that is known to contain DNA contamination in excess of establish limits, to have had no thorough QA/QC, to contain oncological promoters, to have the ability to enter your blood stream, to produce toxic spike proteins in places that would never be exposed ti them during normal respiratory infection.

Now they have been discovered making outright false claims with no plausible data that could ever be misconstrued to fit their lies, that they knew to be false and now refuse to address. This is three years of denial, three years of repeating the same lies as if building on them makes them true. They still haven't acknowledged that the majority of COVID deaths before vaccine deployment were people with multiple comorbidities that were over the average age of life expectancy. They still pretend the deaths were not heavily manipulated and constantly exaggerated... which even the NY Times shills have admitted. Healthy people under 60 were never at real risk and the world never had to shut down. The disease is endemic, was always going to be, and now those with uncompromised immune systems have been exposed. Every year their immunity will update via natural processes and those that continue to vaccinate will have increasingly diminished capacity to adapt immune response.

This nonsense how deniers and super spreaders should be tried for murder is absurd hyperbole and is the same kind dumb lie they used early on to censor victims of vaccine injuries and jail innocent people engaging in basic human rights like being outside. These sick people want you in jail for spreading COVID that the US Government paid to engineer and say it's your fault grandma died, but if you get HIV after decades of unprotected sex with strangers and give it to a teen during a sexual assault they'll post your bail and call you a victim.

This poster has consistently downplayed credible reports of adverse events, having only ever denied that any were happening. They adopted an authoritarian one-size-fits all opinion in line with their apparently crack-addled PM... supporting the destruction of small business, children's educational development, and basic human rights for pandemic control methods that were long disregarded in public health planning because they were known to be ineffective and counter-productive to long term population health.

They continue to deny that COVID vaccines are proven without any credible refutation to have had more VAERS reports of adverse events than all other marketed vaccines combined, ever. The trial data was highly manipulated, their subsequent claims based on trial data have been thoroughly proven fraudulent, and the poster in question has failed to ever accept responsibility for promoting lies told by the people he claims are authorities.

They will not address their open disregard for medical ethics or why they believe healthy children should be put at any additional risk of death or disability for an ineffective therapy, with known genetic contamination, that provides them no benefit because they are documented to have almost no risk of serious illness from COVID. Prior to vaccine deployment there were no healthy children that I can find that died from COVID... yet they lied about dead kids and pediatric ICUs to drive fear and this poster still lies about it today.

This poster is okay with you and your kids taking risks of unknown frequency and magnitude several times a year for a disease you are still going to get, with drugs and techniques that have a history of safety failures that kept them from being approved under normal trial conditions, and you not being given full and transparent access to the data for them. They support and continue to defend the censorship of regular people who tell the truth, because their lies do not survive an educated refutation from people that actually know the field and follow the science.

Wow! All you have stated is worth repeating if only to cause a flood to drown the trolls out. Those nasty creatures need to be flushed out to sea. Bravo to you sir for taking on the task.

That was a great post!
Facts seem to have been replaced by feelings and those who are still screaming covid will kill all of us and the end of the world is coming have found themselves exposed in as they propagated lies and peddled official narratives.

a reply to: Adamskii

RIGHT .....did you watch or read? it talks about how it only worked for like a few days ....then after that most got covid more then others

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Gradcrop

Will they also be investigating the COVID-19 deniers and super-spreaders who refused to take actions against the disease and encouraged others to do likewise?

imagine being on ATS spewing psyop words LOL "superspreaders"

ATTENTION...please read before posting further....

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Everyone and I mean everyone is allowed to post here on topic and to do so without being called names or becoming the target of others' posts. Debate the topic and leave each other out of it. OPPOSING VIEWPOINTS are encouraged.
Those who refuse to get that concept may be POST BANNED!!!

These rules apply to all threads and if you want to engage in personal attacks there are other sites on the Internet where you can do that. Our goal is for ATS to be above that. For members here to post like mature adults.
YOU are responsible for your own posts

And, as always...
Do not reply to this post.

originally posted by: Gradcrop

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Gradcrop

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Gradcrop

Will they also be investigating the COVID-19 deniers and super-spreaders who refused to take actions against the disease and encouraged others to do likewise?

Nope

Honestly, I think that when the general public realize that the doom-porn hasn't happened, and the great reset hasn't happened, and yet their relatives and loved ones died of something that was in the early stages preventable, then people will begin to be angry at that.

And people whose only defense will be that they had a right to free speech, will also come to realize that they have no defense against free speech.

And likely, many will get 'Alex Jones'ed.

You're still trying to deny reality and why Italian Officials could be indicted and face serious charges after the failure of their government to protect its citizens against these potentially dangerous products

I'm not denying reality. There are many who believe that there have been enormous numbers of deaths and injuries caused by the immunizations, that doesn't mean that there have been. And people who have these beliefs can gain a few seconds of public attention by accusing the very people who have been working to protect people's overall health.

You may want to recall this

www.business-standard.com...
Italy suspends use of AstraZeneca vaccine for people under 60 year old

Italy on Friday suspended the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine for people under 60 years old, health officials announced at a weekly press conference on the Covid-19 pandemic.

The move came after an 18-year-old woman died of a blood clot Thursday after receiving an initial dose of AstraZeneca on May 25, Xinhua reported.

Eventually the AZ vaccine was banned in Italy.

All EMA nations suspended the use of the AstraZeneca (Vaxzevria) immunization, back in 2021, pending a safety review, which has now been completed:

COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca: benefits still outweigh the risks despite possible link to rare blood clots with low blood platelets

So, that suspension has now been lifted as of March 2021.

... And who implemented that suspension of use in Italy? The health minister and his cronies, perhaps? The very ones that are apparently being investigated for not suspending the immunizations. Can you see how venal and misinformed the allegations of impropriety are?

Italy also has not banned the AstraZeneca (Vaxzevria) immunization. The following is a link to the current Italian Medicines Agency page in regard to the AstraZeneca immunization:

Vaxzevria (ex COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca)

edit on 14-12-2023 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: koolkikitty
No, chronaut, just no.

So many of us who refused to get the vaccine and were chided, belittled and lost jobs over refusal to take a vaccine that wasn't properly vetted will not forgot all of this treatment by people like you.

Perhaps you people are the ones that should be rounded up? After all, you and your ilk pushed a dangerous product.

a reply to: chr0naut

I am fairly sure that those pushed the products were also fully immunized against COVID-19, because they evaluated the risks compared with the advantages, based upon the best hard evidence available.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Gradcrop

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Gradcrop

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Gradcrop

Will they also be investigating the COVID-19 deniers and super-spreaders who refused to take actions against the disease and encouraged others to do likewise?

Nope

Honestly, I think that when the general public realize that the doom-porn hasn't happened, and the great reset hasn't happened, and yet their relatives and loved ones died of something that was in the early stages preventable, then people will begin to be angry at that.

And people whose only defense will be that they had a right to free speech, will also come to realize that they have no defense against free speech.

And likely, many will get 'Alex Jones'ed.

You're still trying to deny reality and why Italian Officials could be indicted and face serious charges after the failure of their government to protect its citizens against these potentially dangerous products

I'm not denying reality. There are many who believe that there have been enormous numbers of deaths and injuries caused by the immunizations, that doesn't mean that there have been. And people who have these beliefs can gain a few seconds of public attention by accusing the very people who have been working to protect people's overall health.

You may want to recall this

www.business-standard.com...
Italy suspends use of AstraZeneca vaccine for people under 60 year old

Italy on Friday suspended the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine for people under 60 years old, health officials announced at a weekly press conference on the Covid-19 pandemic.

The move came after an 18-year-old woman died of a blood clot Thursday after receiving an initial dose of AstraZeneca on May 25, Xinhua reported.

Eventually the AZ vaccine was banned in Italy.

All EMA nations suspended the use of the AstraZeneca (Vaxzevria) immunization, back in 2021, pending a safety review, which has now been completed:

COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca: benefits still outweigh the risks despite possible link to rare blood clots with low blood platelets

So, that suspension has now been lifted as of March 2021.

... And who implemented that suspension of use in Italy? The health minister and his cronies, perhaps? The very ones that are apparently being investigated for not suspending the immunizations. Can you see how venal and misinformed the allegations of impropriety are?

Italy also has not banned the AstraZeneca (Vaxzevria) immunization. The following is a link to the current Italian Medicines Agency page in regard to the AstraZeneca immunization:

Vaxzevria (ex COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca)

You're peddling a lot of misinformation as it seems. The Astrazeneca vaccine is no longer in use pretty much everywhere in the world and most countries have either suspended indefinitely its use of completely banned it. To argue otherwise is total misinformation.


timesofindia.indiatimes.com...

Coronavirus: Why AstraZeneca Is Not The Go-To COVID-19 Vaccine For Many International Countries

Countries that have banned the AstraZeneca vaccine

Denmark was the first country to suspend COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca, followed by Ireland, Thailand, the Netherlands, Norway, Iceland, Congo, and Bulgaria.

European countries, including Germany, France, Italy, and Spain have stopped the use of AstraZeneca's COVID vaccine.

Sweden, Latvia and Slovenia joined the league in banning the use of the vaccine.

Italy among the countries that have completely suspended the Astrazeneca vaccine.

And even the UK that manufactured the product is no longer using it.

It was a complete disaster that's why they stopped it.

www.bhf.org.uk...

The latest on the AstraZeneca vaccine, from why it is no longer available in the UK, to information on the risk of blood clots.

edit on 14-12-2023 by Nordics because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: Gradcrop
a reply to: chr0naut

What is really intriguing is the way you try to whitewash the wrongdoings and actions taken of the various governments around the world, excusing and justifying the use of some failed medical products, and gaslight anyone who doesn't accept the official narratives that have been debunked. Not only various vaccines have been withdrawn from the market and various lawsuits exist against governments and pharmaceuticals but officials are now investigated on murder charges.

Who would have thought it a few years ago?!

I don't think I whitewash the wrongdoings and actions taken of the various governments around the world. I am highly critical of governments, and particularly of the US government, and its basis upon a poorly written, outdated, and legally contradictory Constitution.

I don't consider any of the COVID-19 immunizations that have been released as 'failed medical products'. I base that on the pharmacovigilance data that is available to me and that has the most credibility. More importantly, I have not been able to find any alternate credible pharmacovigilance data that counters the official data, at all!

The article referenced in the OP was an allegation that uses highly inflammatory and emotive language. It is an allegation requesting investigation. No charges have yet been laid, it has not been tried in court to establish that an infraction has actually been committed, and it has not reached sentencing phase where anyone is convicted of anything.

All these same sorts of medicine related allegations and conspiracy theories have been happening, at least for decades, all over the world. I could point to numerous ones around the US FDA, and its decisions and prosecutions.

originally posted by: Gradcrop

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Gradcrop

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Gradcrop

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Gradcrop

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Gradcrop

Will they also be investigating the COVID-19 deniers and super-spreaders who refused to take actions against the disease and encouraged others to do likewise?

You seem to be a vaccine apologist who refuses to admit that these vaccines have caused a range of serious adverse reactions and deaths following vaccine mandates, lies and propaganda, by the mainstream media that pushed the government narratives.

Nobody will be investigating those who refused to get 'vaccinated' and refused to peddle the government narratives and dogma. They are on the right side of history and haven't committed any crimes.

I suppose that the court case will come down to a comparison between the numbers saved by the immunizations, and the numbers harmed by the immunizations.

Already reasonably sound estimates are out that give us a figure for how many lives were saved by the immunizations.

All they have to do is prove that there were more deaths caused by the immunizations and they automatically win the case.

COVID vaccines saved 20 million lives in first year, study says

There is no evidence as to the number saved by immunization. That's an unsubstantiated claim with no merits other than propaganda and lies by those who promoted the vaccines including the pharmaceutical companies. But there is plenty of evidence people were harmed and died due to these products and that's why a number of vaccines have been withdrawn completely from the market and others have been made available only for the over 60s or 70s.

Sure, then publish a link to the credible alternate statistics.

I have edited in an ONS page on vaccine caused deaths to my previous post.

As these are the only definite and most credible statistics I have, I'll go with them until I find more credible ones.

The statistics don't show how many people have been saved by the vaccines. It's a very misleading statement. Statistics can show how many people have died due to Covid.

The linked Lancet paper outlines its sources, methods and calculations:

Global impact of the first year of COVID-19 vaccination: a mathematical modelling study

The official narratives have been debunked and no information is credible on this subject. You can't rely on official 'data' I am afraid.

On what basis were the official narratives debunked if there is no information that is credible on the subject?

Surely you don't actually think that saying something is 'debunked', without some sort of verifiable evidence, is valid reasoning?

Even unreliable data is better than not having any data at all and basing your unassailable opinion on nothing.

Are you trying to gaslight everyone who has conversations with you or you deliberately ignore reality?

What verifiable evidence are you talking about?!
We have facts.

The AZ and J & J vaccines have been withdrawn and banned from most countries that have used them at one point due to the harms and deaths they have caused. The mRNA products are only recommended for the over 60s or over 70s and they have caused the highest number of adverse reactions in the history of medicine from all other vaccinations combined.

On the top of this there are various lawsuits all over the world against governments, officials, and even the pharmaceuticals themselves.

Do you consider this to be a successful vaccine campaign?!?!

Banned vaccines
People who have been harmed and killed by these products
Lawsuits against various officials and governments and even against the pharmaceuticals.

These are facts

Please explain how even a few posts responding to the posts of others, and providing credible sources for what I was saying, is 'gaslighting'?

How could I be making them question their reality in a couple of text posts?

originally posted by: Lazy88

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Gradcrop

Will they also be investigating the COVID-19 deniers and super-spreaders who refused to take actions against the disease and encouraged others to do likewise?

For people exercising freedoms and just being people.

Which is different than conspiring to conceal data. Which ultimately helped big pharmaceutical profits.

And these people exercising these freedoms, are they more free than others?

Anarchism is the ultimate freedom. No rules. "Do what thou wilt is the whole of the law". Damn the consequences for anyone else, eh?

originally posted by: NorthOS

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Gradcrop

Will they also be investigating the COVID-19 deniers and super-spreaders who refused to take actions against the disease and encouraged others to do likewise?

That would be those vaccinated frequent flyers that were the superspreaders.

The unvaccinated sat at home watching the virus and its variants spread around the globe by those that were “immunized”.

I recall numerous protests of those who refused to lock-down, mask, and vaccinate:

Protests against vaccines, COVID restrictions, span the globe

Protests against responses to the COVID-19 pandemic

Texas man who led anti-mask protests in name of ‘freedom’ dies of Covid-19

Anti -Mask Rallies Continue In U.S. Amid Rising Coronavirus Cases And Deaths

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Gradcrop

Will they also be investigating the COVID-19 deniers and super-spreaders who refused to take actions against the disease and encouraged others to do likewise?

never gonna give it up are you I've never seen someone on the wrong side of the fence so much in denial . Post all the links you want mate the joke is up . People are fully aware Covid-19 was a nothing burger and the Vaccine was well..... Who knows on that front . In the decades to come it will all slowly come out .

SUPER SPREADERS Don't you recall in the beginning of the " Pandemic " ? All of the Democrat Leadership were calling for people to relax and go out into public everything is fine ......