Italian Health Minister Under Investigation for Murder for Concealing COVID-19 Vaccine Deaths

a reply to: Kurokage

It's funny you think I'm angry. These are the salad days my arrogant, unapologetic, friend. This is when the chickens begin to come home to roost. This is why you wish this to be a simple matter of discussion rather than a crime against humanity, now that the lies you cling to are falling apart.

It's a difference of opinion now, is it?

Less than a year ago you were having tantrums because you didn't want anybody to post things about the vaccine you disagreed with. Just don't open the threads if you don't like them, but don't pretend now like you haven't had several childish meltdowns where you tried to shut down discussion.

I'm all about discussion and always have been, but for some reason for the past year or so none of the COVID experts will respond to me. It's because now I have enough data that the delusional lies they told can't really be worked around. That's why your boy was lying about Ivermectin, sugar, and salt, being more dangerous than COVID vaccines. There's nothing left to do but make up lies. The vaccines don't work. Excess mortality in heavily vaccinated nations is up in the under 50 demographic, COVID deaths in the fully vaccinated are ongoing, and multiple conservative studies have put adverse events at 1 in 800. There is no version of the data that makes it rational to support this product being injected into healthy children. It is criminal that health agencies have approved this for children and added it to childhood schedules. I don't care if you want to shoot up DNA plasmids, or heroin for that matter, but advocacy for these products and those that make them is advocating for kids to die for no reason, no clinical benefit and all the risk. There is no argument that these companies are doing the right thing because there is not and never will.be a risk/benefit analysis that would allow them to give this to kids. That's why they won't provide the data and have stopped bothering with trials on new batches.

I have no recourse for their harmful lying but to address the lies themselves, because nobody will discuss the topic. They know it's lies so they have to avoid the actual data. I'm sorry that you failed to think through the consequences of officials lying and using social pressure to stop people from telling the truth. It allowed your "team" to develop highly irrational beliefs that had no chance of being defended in the long term, because they were literally just lies that your trusted experts made up. Masking everywhere, social distancing, the whole vaccine trial was nonsense they tried to cover up for 70 years. They lied and said it was 95% effective, prevented illness, prevented transmission, and they had no evidence of these things in data. It was a sham and you all fell for it while screeching at people like me telling you that this isn't how public health or science works.

After three years of people losing jobs, being attacked in the streets, being kicked out of family events by government fear mongering, being forced to take experimental vaccines without informed consent, being threatened with substandard medical care.

Now you want it to be just a little difference of opinion?

I bet you do. That karma isn't mine to pay off, but I wish you the best of luck with it.

a reply to: navigator70

The member ksihkahe can post all of what they said without attacking the actual member, thats not allowed (they should know they were a Mod at one point)
Chr0naut has been a member since 2011 and Ksihkahe singled them out with a lenthy angy post accusing them of pretty much being a shill.
Like I said, the covid and vaccination shambles have been a swamp of mis-information and propaganda by all sides so the truth lies some where in the middle.

a reply to: ksihkahe

That's where your wrong.
I was a 'wait for more evidence' and don't be pushed into jumping to soon. We had people on here claiming the vaccine was going to kill 20+ percent of the worlds population or more. has that happened? Every suicide, motor accident and cancer death was gleefully posted to here as vaccine death by one or two posters.
Alot of the evidence that first came out was by people selling books and trying to get publicity.

At the time you like others were quick to label me an apologist and shill. I think it's you that suffers meltdowns

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: navigator70

The member ksihkahe can post all of what they said without attacking the actual member, thats not allowed (they should know they were a Mod at one point)
Chr0naut has been a member since 2011 and Ksihkahe singled them out with a lenthy angy post accusing them of pretty much being a shill.
Like I said, the covid and vaccination shambles have been a swamp of mis-information and propaganda by all sides so the truth lies some where in the middle.

It's better if you concentrate on the topic of the thread that clearly reflects the massive medical blunder associated with the Covid vaccines which shouldn't have been made available in the first place and especially to healthy and young people.

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: navigator70

The member ksihkahe can post all of what they said without attacking the actual member, thats not allowed (they should know they were a Mod at one point)

It seemed more like just an observation of someones posts to me. I didnt see any ridicule, shouting or anything that indicated anger. It does however follow the same patterned response we see repeatedly from the militant vax crowd and narcissists in general when confronted with facts they dont agree with.

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: ksihkahe

That's where your wrong.
I was a 'wait for more evidence' and don't be pushed into jumping to soon. We had people on here claiming the vaccine was going to kill 20+ percent of the worlds population or more. has that happened? Every suicide, motor accident and cancer death was gleefully posted to here as vaccine death by one or two posters.

At the time you like others were quick to label me an apologist and shill. I think it's you that suffers meltdowns

Don't try to whitewash the wrongdoings and crimes committed in the name of the vaccine campaign.

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: ksihkahe

That's where your wrong.
I was a 'wait for more evidence' and don't be pushed into jumping to soon. We had people on here claiming the vaccine was going to kill 20+ percent of the worlds population or more.

Push back is just the natural progression of events when they started exaggerating the number of CV deaths. You reap what you sow.

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Gradcrop

Will they also be investigating the COVID-19 deniers and super-spreaders who refused to take actions against the disease and encouraged others to do likewise?

That would be those vaccinated frequent flyers that were the superspreaders.

The unvaccinated sat at home watching the virus and its variants spread around the globe by those that were “immunized”.

a reply to: Gradcrop

Don't try to whitewash the wrongdoings and crimes committed in the name of the vaccine campaign.

Thats laughable.

My intial post was this...

"Well, today, Roberto Speranza is under investigation for lies he allegedly told about vaccines."


So the VNN article states clearly that he's 'alleged' to have lied and don't actually post any of the e-mails either?

Thats all.
Like I said, the article didn't post any of the emails, so my question is, how damning are they? Has anyone actually seen them?

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Gradcrop

Don't try to whitewash the wrongdoings and crimes committed in the name of the vaccine campaign.

Thats laughable.

My intial post was this...

"Well, today, Roberto Speranza is under investigation for lies he allegedly told about vaccines."


So the VNN article states clearly that he's 'alleged' to have lied and don't actually post any of the e-mails either?

Thats all.
Like I said, the article didn't post any of the emails, so my question is, how damning are they? Has anyone actually seen them?

The facts are that we have a number of failed vaccines, people who have died and seriously harmed by these products and officials who are investigated for their role in covering up the truth.

It's better not to try to cast artificial doubts and justify the failed vaccine campaign.

a reply to: Gradcrop

Im not trying to justify anything. Im asking if the emails have been posted? Or is this another media posting before any facts about the case are known?

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Gradcrop

Im not trying to justify anything. Im asking if the emails have been posted? Or is this another media posting before any facts about the case are known?

You are expanding the conversation...
The fact is that the guy is officially investigated after trying to cover up the fact that Covid vaccines caused deaths while promoting the products.

a reply to: Gradcrop

posted March 2023
The Guardian

Former Italian PM Giuseppe Conte faces investigation over Covid response.

Italian prosecutors have placed the former prime minister Giuseppe Conte, the former health minister Roberto Speranza and 17 others under investigation on suspicion of “aggravated culpable epidemic” and manslaughter in connection with the government’s response at the start of the coronavirus pandemic.

The investigation, launched by prosecutors in Bergamo, the Lombardy province worst hit during the first wave of the virus, follows a preliminary inquiry that began in mid-2020 and was driven by relatives of Covid-19 victims.

Bergamo registered 6,000 excess deaths during the first wave of the virus, and prosecutors say 4,000 could have been prevented had the areas been immediately quarantined.

And the latest article...

The Guardian

Ex-Italian prime minister and health minister cleared of Covid culpability.

Italy’s former prime minister Giuseppe Conte and the former health minister Roberto Speranza were not responsible for the alleged mismanagement of the country’s first phase of the Covid pandemic, a court ruled on Wednesday.

Last March, prosecutors in Bergamo, the Lombardy province worst hit during the first wave of the virus in 2020, had placed Conte and Speranza under investigation on suspicion of “aggravated culpable epidemic” and manslaughter in connection with the government’s response at the start of the coronavirus pandemic.

This all I could find on Italian Health Minister Roberto Speranza? Is the article in the OP accurate?

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: ksihkahe

That's where your wrong.
I was a 'wait for more evidence' and don't be pushed into jumping to soon. We had people on here claiming the vaccine was going to kill 20+ percent of the worlds population or more. has that happened? Every suicide, motor accident and cancer death was gleefully posted to here as vaccine death by one or two posters.
Alot of the evidence that first came out was by people selling books and trying to get publicity.

At the time you like others were quick to label me an apologist and shill. I think it's you that suffers meltdowns

Actually.

Every suicide, motor death, and cancer victim was relegated to be killed off by Covid.

So said the medical industry.

Nice try though.

AND. There’s still time.

Edit: oddly enough there seems to be a moratorium on coroners and mortuaries. Verrrry hush hush these days.

Odd….dotchathink?

originally posted by: ksihkahe

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Gradcrop

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Gradcrop

Will they also be investigating the COVID-19 deniers and super-spreaders who refused to take actions against the disease and encouraged others to do likewise?

You seem to be a vaccine apologist who refuses to admit that these vaccines have caused a range of serious adverse reactions and deaths following vaccine mandates, lies and propaganda, by the mainstream media that pushed the government narratives.

Nobody will be investigating those who refused to get 'vaccinated' and refused to peddle the government narratives and dogma. They are on the right side of history and haven't committed any crimes.

I suppose that the court case will come down to a comparison between the numbers saved by the immunizations, and the numbers harmed by the immunizations.

No, the court case will come down to violating law and how much money the pharmaceutical industry and their many proxies have poured into the media and government services of Italy.

Just because a bunch of morons believe more lies about a gorillion people being saved from vaccines that don't prevent illness or transmission, from proven liars... like you... doesn't mean that laws were not violated.

Why anybody would listen to you after you recently quintupled down on lying with the claim that Ivermectin, salt, and sugar are more harmful than COVID vaccines I can't guess. You should lead every post with that utter nonsense so people can decide how credible you are.

But just in case anyone reading is new... this poster is spreading false information in other threads and has been posting misleading and false information for years. They literally have never deviated from what the pharmaceutical influencers have propagated, as they were paid handsomely to do. They have offered not a single criticism of the video evidence of the Pfizer CEO lying to the public about transmission. They have not condemned the officials they sourced for their facts admitting to lying about transmission to justify the premise of segregating society and to continue denying medical treatment to unvaccinated individuals. They lied to better trick the population into taking a vaccine that they also refused to give you transparent informed consent for. This poster is on their side... but they say we're the dangerous ones.

They don't care about truth. They care about a political narratives. There can be no real discussion because there can be no back and forth, no admission of error... only the narrative. They believe that you are all so dumb and ignorant that after telling lies for three years you will be shamed into not believing the facts they desperately tried to censor and lied to you about. All with the end goal of having you take a novel therapy that is known to contain DNA contamination in excess of establish limits, to have had no thorough QA/QC, to contain oncological promoters, to have the ability to enter your blood stream, to produce toxic spike proteins in places that would never be exposed ti them during normal respiratory infection.

Now they have been discovered making outright false claims with no plausible data that could ever be misconstrued to fit their lies, that they knew to be false and now refuse to address. This is three years of denial, three years of repeating the same lies as if building on them makes them true. They still haven't acknowledged that the majority of COVID deaths before vaccine deployment were people with multiple comorbidities that were over the average age of life expectancy. They still pretend the deaths were not heavily manipulated and constantly exaggerated... which even the NY Times shills have admitted. Healthy people under 60 were never at real risk and the world never had to shut down. The disease is endemic, was always going to be, and now those with uncompromised immune systems have been exposed. Every year their immunity will update via natural processes and those that continue to vaccinate will have increasingly diminished capacity to adapt immune response.

This nonsense how deniers and super spreaders should be tried for murder is absurd hyperbole and is the same kind dumb lie they used early on to censor victims of vaccine injuries and jail innocent people engaging in basic human rights like being outside. These sick people want you in jail for spreading COVID that the US Government paid to engineer and say it's your fault grandma died, but if you get HIV after decades of unprotected sex with strangers and give it to a teen during a sexual assault they'll post your bail and call you a victim.

This poster has consistently downplayed credible reports of adverse events, having only ever denied that any were happening. They adopted an authoritarian one-size-fits all opinion in line with their apparently crack-addled PM... supporting the destruction of small business, children's educational development, and basic human rights for pandemic control methods that were long disregarded in public health planning because they were known to be ineffective and counter-productive to long term population health.

They continue to deny that COVID vaccines are proven without any credible refutation to have had more VAERS reports of adverse events than all other marketed vaccines combined, ever. The trial data was highly manipulated, their subsequent claims based on trial data have been thoroughly proven fraudulent, and the poster in question has failed to ever accept responsibility for promoting lies told by the people he claims are authorities.

They will not address their open disregard for medical ethics or why they believe healthy children should be put at any additional risk of death or disability for an ineffective therapy, with known genetic contamination, that provides them no benefit because they are documented to have almost no risk of serious illness from COVID. Prior to vaccine deployment there were no healthy children that I can find that died from COVID... yet they lied about dead kids and pediatric ICUs to drive fear and this poster still lies about it today.

This poster is okay with you and your kids taking risks of unknown frequency and magnitude several times a year for a disease you are still going to get, with drugs and techniques that have a history of safety failures that kept them from being approved under normal trial conditions, and you not being given full and transparent access to the data for them. They support and continue to defend the censorship of regular people who tell the truth, because their lies do not survive an educated refutation from people that actually know the field and follow the science.

Wow! All you have stated is worth repeating if only to cause a flood to drown the trolls out. Those nasty creatures need to be flushed out to sea. Bravo to you sir for taking on the task.

originally posted by: Kurokage
Is the article in the OP accrete?

Highly questionable.
The article was quoting what Alex Jones was doing.
That's enough to be on guard.

IF it's the same "Vigilant News" ... kinda sounds like it is ...

Media Bias Fact Check - Vigilant News

Overall, we rate Vigilant News as far-right biased and questionable based on the promotion of propaganda, conspiracy theories, pseudoscience, false claims, poor sourcing, and a lack of transparency.

MBFC Credibility Rating: LOW CREDIBILITY

a reply to: FlyersFan
Haha.

That credibility rating sounds like what I think a PR firm for the CDC/WHO sounds like.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Gradcrop

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Gradcrop

Will they also be investigating the COVID-19 deniers and super-spreaders who refused to take actions against the disease and encouraged others to do likewise?

You seem to be a vaccine apologist who refuses to admit that these vaccines have caused a range of serious adverse reactions and deaths following vaccine mandates, lies and propaganda, by the mainstream media that pushed the government narratives.

Nobody will be investigating those who refused to get 'vaccinated' and refused to peddle the government narratives and dogma. They are on the right side of history and haven't committed any crimes.

I suppose that the court case will come down to a comparison between the numbers saved by the immunizations, and the numbers harmed by the immunizations.

Already reasonably sound estimates are out that give us a figure for how many lives were saved by the immunizations.

All they have to do is prove that there were more deaths caused by the immunizations and they automatically win the case.

COVID vaccines saved 20 million lives in first year, study says

How many people have died as a result of a COVID-19 vaccine?

If you are referring to the statements spoon fed to us such as “if I hadn’t taken the vaccine my Covid symptoms would have been much worse.”

Then my reply would be “If I had taken the vaccine my Covid symptoms would have been much worse.”

Prove me wrong.

You can’t.

Which shows the complete bullsh!t people will believe and repeat.

originally posted by: SteamyAmerican

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: ksihkahe

That's where your wrong.
I was a 'wait for more evidence' and don't be pushed into jumping to soon. We had people on here claiming the vaccine was going to kill 20+ percent of the worlds population or more. has that happened? Every suicide, motor accident and cancer death was gleefully posted to here as vaccine death by one or two posters.
Alot of the evidence that first came out was by people selling books and trying to get publicity.

At the time you like others were quick to label me an apologist and shill. I think it's you that suffers meltdowns

Actually.

Every suicide, motor death, and cancer victim was relegated to be killed off by Covid.

So said the medical industry.

Nice try though.

AND. There’s still time.

Edit: oddly enough there seems to be a moratorium on coroners and mortuaries. Verrrry hush hush these days.

Odd….dotchathink?

Yes!

A lot of deaths were branded as covid deaths- no questions asked. You couldn't die of anything else and despite the very low infection fatality rate for those under 50 years of age.

a reply to: SteamyAmerican

Every suicide, motor death, and cancer victim was relegated to be killed off by Covid.

So said the medical industry.

Nice try though.

If you re-read my post, I was talking about ATS. we had a couple of posters, posting daily and when you checked the story posted some of the people had died from gunshots and the like, and others who were long term cancer sufferers, one had even drowned. They would post these long list of stories from around the web and obviously hadn't checked them or even read them.